Good vs Evil - dualism in Judaeo-Christian religion

Since the Judaism and Christianity believe in good and evil, and God and Satan, wouldn't Christianity and Judaism (and even Islam) be dualistic instead of monotheistic?

Since God is usually classified as being good and Satan as evil, then they are two eternal spirits - or gods as you could put it (though this may offend some people).

Of course, I have heard of legend that Satan was not alway evil, and that his fall was the result of God placing great honor on his creation - Adam. Jealousy, pride and rebellion deprive him a place in heaven. But this story was not included in canons. This would mean that the personification of evil started at the time of Adam's creation, and therefore evil is not an eternal.

But how can that be possible? Good can not exist without evil, just as evil could not survive without good.

Your thoughts?

This concept is not found in Traditional Judaism.

The satan is really just an angel in service of HaShem, he is in charge of refining us by tempting us to give in to our baser instincts...our yetzer hara, evil inclination

but he can do nothing without G-d's approval.

G-d creates all things, Good, Neutral and Evil
satan is G-d's dirty work man, but he still gets a paycheck from G-d.

jewscout said:

This concept is not found in Traditional Judaism.

The satan is really just an angel in service of HaShem, he is in charge of refining us by tempting us to give in to our baser instincts...our yetzer hara, evil inclination

but he can do nothing without G-d's approval.

G-d creates all things, Good, Neutral and Evil
satan is G-d's dirty work man, but he still gets a paycheck from G-d.

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Very well said.

gnostic said:

Since the Judaism and Christianity believe in good and evil, and God and Satan, wouldn't Christianity and Judaism (and even Islam) be dualistic instead of monotheistic?

Since God is usually classified as being good and Satan as evil, then they are two eternal spirits - or gods as you could put it (though this may offend some people).

Of course, I have heard of legend that Satan was not alway evil, and that his fall was the result of God placing great honor on his creation - Adam. Jealousy, pride and rebellion deprive him a place in heaven. But this story was not included in canons. This would mean that the personification of evil started at the time of Adam's creation, and therefore evil is not an eternal.

But how can that be possible? Good can not exist without evil, just as evil could not survive without good.

Your thoughts?

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Your third paragraph describes the common Christian interpretation of Satan.

There is only ONE God, who most Christians accept as the Triune God...ONE God...three aspects...Father, Son and Holy Ghost...separate, yet ONE.

As far as evil...Satan encompasses Evil...and Satan will eventually be destroyed, according to Scripture. He is certainly not considered a god. In fact, many Christians believe that when you are IN CHRIST...you are no longer bound to the laws of sin and death (i.e...you have the ability to resist Satan and the obstacles he may place in your path) but to grace and righteousness in God, our Heavenly Father.

dawny0826 said:

As far as evil...Satan encompasses Evil...and Satan will eventually be destroyed, according to Scripture.

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This made me think. To rid the world of evil, God is willing to break one of his own commandments and kill - He is going to kill Satan?

How can an evil act destroy evil?

gnostic said:

Good can not exist without evil, just as evil could not survive without good.

Your thoughts?

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Yeah, here's a thought. Why is it that you cannot have good without evil? What kind of logic is that? You may want to look up "logical fallacies" on google.

Halcyon said:

How can an evil act destroy evil?

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it can't, thats why we needed an eternally good act to redeem us ......... jesus comes to mind

Halcyon said:

This made me think. To rid the world of evil, God is willing to break one of his own commandments and kill - He is going to kill Satan?

How can an evil act destroy evil?

Click to expand...

According to scripture, yes...and...also according to scripture...everthing is his to give and his to take away.

Thank you, JewScout. Because I've lived in Western society and culure, I am therefore more familiar with Christian belief than in a Jewish one. I see that there are difference between two religious thinking, in your post to that of Christians.

According to Christian belief (as I understand them as far as I able to; I am not Christian), they believe that Satan is evil and enemy to God and Jesus, as dawny0826 said.

Your view, JewScout, hold a different picture than that of ordinary Christians. You wrote:

The satan is really just an angel in service of HaShem, he is in charge of refining us by tempting us to give in to our baser instincts...our yetzer hara, evil inclination

but he can do nothing without G-d's approval.

G-d creates all things, Good, Neutral and Evil
satan is G-d's dirty work man, but he still gets a paycheck from G-d.

Click to expand...

That would explain the Book of Job, where Satan is working for God, which ruin Job, all for a mere wager, between God and Satan. I was never satisfy with God's answer to Job in Job 38-41. (It didn't seem like an answer at all, why God let him being ruin, ie loss of his children, wealth and health, but that's another story).

If that the case, then all good and evil have their root in God.

You explanation would also explain, why in the Bible, you will find a few passages, where it is not Satan who authorise and send evil spirits to torment people, but God.

Take King Saul, as an example, in the 1st Book of Samuel. Shortly after David was anointed as the future king, 1 Samuel 16:14-16 (KJV):

But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD troubled him. And Saul's servants said unto him, Behold now, an evil spirit from God troubleth thee. et our lord now command thy servants, which are before thee, to seek out a man, who is a cunning player on an harp: and it shall come to pass, when the evil spirit from God is upon thee, that he shall play with his hand, and thou shalt be well.

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In the new Tanakh (Hebrew Bible) from the JPS (Jewish Publication Society, 1985) version, 1 Sam 16:14-16:

Now the spirit of the Lord had departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the Lord began to terrify him. Saul's courtiers said to him, An evil spirit of God is terrifying you. Let our lord give the order and the courtiers in attendance on you will look for someone who is skill at playing the lyre; whenever the evil spirit of God comes over you, he will play it and you will feel better.

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When David was praised in a song sang by women, that Saul killed only thousands of enemies and that of David tens of thousands, there was more than simple jealousy of Saul that turn against young David. Just before Saul threw his spear at David, in 1 Samuel 18:10 (JPS)

The next day an evil spirit of God gripped Saul, and he began to rave in the house, while David was playing [with the lyre], as he did daily. Saul had a spear in his hand, and Saul threw the spear, thinking to pin David to the wall.

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Jesus and others have always spoken of Satan sending evil spirit to tempt men into sin, but rarely do they see that it is God who is sending evil spirits, in which case demons.

The Christians version about God and Satan confuses me, but the Jewish version seemed to shed a great deal of light of what happened to Saul and Job.

gnostic said:

Thank you, JewScout. Because I've lived in Western society and culure, I am therefore more familiar with Christian belief than in a Jewish one. I see that there are difference between two religious thinking, in your post to that of Christians.

According to Christian belief (as I understand them as far as I able to; I am not Christian), they believe that Satan is evil and enemy to God and Jesus, as dawny0826 said.

Your view, JewScout, hold a different picture than that of ordinary Christians. You wrote:


That would explain the Book of Job, where Satan is working for God, which ruin Job, all for a mere wager, between God and Satan. I was never satisfy with God's answer to Job in Job 38-41. (It didn't seem like an answer at all, why God let him being ruin, ie loss of his children, wealth and health, but that's another story).

If that the case, then all good and evil have their root in God.

You explanation would also explain, why in the Bible, you will find a few passages, where it is not Satan who authorise and send evil spirits to torment people, but God.

Take King Saul, as an example, in the 1st Book of Samuel. Shortly after David was anointed as the future king, 1 Samuel 16:14-16 (KJV):

In the new Tanakh (Hebrew Bible) from the JPS (Jewish Publication Society, 1985) version, 1 Sam 16:14-16:

When David was praised in a song sang by women, that Saul killed only thousands of enemies and that of David tens of thousands, there was more than simple jealousy of Saul that turn against young David. Just before Saul threw his spear at David, in 1 Samuel 18:10 (JPS)

Jesus and others have always spoken of Satan sending evil spirit to tempt men into sin, but rarely do they see that it is God who is sending evil spirits, in which case demons.

The Christians version about God and Satan confuses me, but the Jewish version seemed to shed a great deal of light of what happened to Saul and Job.

Click to expand...

To each his own.

Halcyon said:

This made me think. To rid the world of evil, God is willing to break one of his own commandments and kill - He is going to kill Satan?

How can an evil act destroy evil?

Click to expand...

God won't kill Satan (ever) because Satan is a spirit. God created spirits to exist eternally. However, He can and will bind Satan's power at some time in the future. Satan will continue to exist, but he will no longer have any power over us. God has given him power temporarily in order that we can be tested. There must be opposites in order for us to progress. If there were no such thing as evil, good might exist, but it would not be recognized as good. Once Satan is bound, good and evil will no longer be at odds with each other. God's light will prevail over darkness and Satan will cease to have any power at all.

From my view, good and evil are matter of perspective. Due to my agnosticism, there are no good or evil spirits, but I am trying to see it from religious sides. Just as I don't know if God exist, make it difficult for me to imagine that the personification of evil is Satan.

I am little dubious of the existence of Satan, because this name or title "Satan" doesn't appear in any writing until the Book of Job and the Chronicles, which are both later writings, during the time when they were either in exile after the Fall of Jerusalem or after their return from Babylon. The thing is they would have encounter Babylonian and Persian religion/mythology, particularly the later, ie Zoroastrianism.

Zoroastrianism has a complex heirarchy of angels and demons, where these spirits are personified with personal names. The early writings in the Torah, doesn't attach any names to angels or demons. There were Satan, but we now link Satan with the serpent in the Garden of Eden, but the Genesis make no mention of Satan. Even the archangels, Michael and Gabriel doesn't appear until around this time.

The Book(s) of Enoch is a classic example of Zoroastrian influences. Zoroastrianism obviously indirectly influenced the Christian New Testament and later Muslim Qur'an, via the books of Enoch, and other non-canonical mystic books.

Actually, i've seen Christianity and Judaism (not sure about Islam yet) as polytheistic religions. I mean, they had the major god, (trinity... like a 3 headed god.... wait, in Greek mythology wasnt there a three headed demon dog? is god dog backwards? ... soooo off topic, sorry) Various attributes of him, demigods (angles, lesser "gods" as i see them), and very many aspects of mythology.... so i dont see it as Good verses Evil... i see it more of mythology still practiced *smiles*

http://www.cubicao.tk/index.html...
ant furthur questions i'm willing to answer anyone i'm not sharing the link to offend anyone but we all most know sometime.

Once Satan is bound, good and evil will no longer be at odds with each other.

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This is interesting. May I ask... will both opposites still exist, they will just not be at odds? Meaning, there will be such perfect balance that neither opposite will exist? Is that what you are saying? If so, then taoists believe that not only is this possible, but it has been this way since the beginning. Some people are just confused and view the opposites as better or worse than the other. I wonder, (from a taoist point of view) that this heaven is a state of mind and a oneness with Tao (god). And taoists may be in that heaven, while some who still believe in the existence of evil, are caught in this "hell"? Could you imagine the implications of this?