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thomasedison said:BTW, Do we proof aside from the Bible that Jesus actually said himself that He was the Son of God?
Faust said:Actually Scott my previous post was completely historically accurate.
If you wish to find out more about it I would suggest you read "When Jesus Became God" (The Struggle to define Christianity during the Last Days of Rome) By Richard E. Rubenstein.
Mr. Rubenstein is a graduate of Harvard College, Oxford University (Rhodes Scholar),and Harvard Law School.
The book deals with the conflict between two early church leaders, Arius and Anthanasius, and the resolution of the exact nature of Jesus according to the Catholic Church.
That's the great thing about Christianity. They kept detailed records of everything they did.
Druidus said:Perhaps the Druids, who died horrible deaths for Druidry? ?
Hirohito18200 said:the most concise definition i could find: Arianism was a 4th-century Christian heresy named for Arius (c.250-c.336), a priest in Alexandria. Arius denied the full deity of the preexistent Son of God who became incarnate in Jesus Christ. He held that the Son, while divine and like God ("of like substance"), was created by God as the agent through whom he created the universe. Arius said of the Son, "there was a time when he was not."
and actually, it was ultimately a dispute about the divinity of Jesus because in a monotheism such as Christianity, you could not have one aspect of God above the other, because it would throw off the system of worship. Why listen to Jesus, even if he was God, if we could be listening to the surperior God and being a Jew (torrah only)?
Faust said:Corban,
The exact nature of the debate dealt with the problem of the trinity.
One side, those who followed the side represented by Anthinasius believed that the Father, Son and The Holy Ghost where three aspects of the one God. Those represented by the arguments of Arius believed that Jesus was a man who was inhabited by the substance of God. They were both trying to maintain the purity of monotheism and still keep the Trinity.
The reason this argument was going on so late in the history of Christianity is up until the time that Constantine became the first Christian Emperor and made it the state religion Christians were being persecuted and marginalized. Even though it continued to grow it was not easy for them to keep everyone on the same track and many different groups had many different ideas about the true nature of their religion,Gnostics,Coptics,ect...
Obviously this is still a problem today but it was harder for early Christians to meet in larger groups and councils and come up with a consensus on the many facets and issues of their religion.
Hmmm....didn't quite get that from reading the Bible. Where exactly in the Bible does it say, or 'exemplify', that Jesus and God are two different entities?carrdero said:GOD has never incarnated to a physical existence on earth. Even the Bible clearly exemplifies that these are indeed two different entities.
So their pain and struggle is invalid because they didn't turn into zombies?Melody said:But did they arise again?
Hope writes: Hmmm....didn't quite get that from reading the Bible. Where exactly in the Bible does it say, or 'exemplify', that Jesus and God are two different entities?
Actually I used to have a total understanding/belief of the Trinity but recently have shed those beliefs in favor of new enlightenment.Hope writes: I think that you simply have a total misunderstanding of the whole concept of the Trinity.
Hope writes: None of those verses 'exemplifies' to me that Jesus and God are two different entities.
Now, if I understand this correctly, the women is talking about the coming Messiah Christ and that he will declare all things to us. Now I can interpret Jesus answer as if he is only agreeing to the women that he is, the coming Christ, the coming Messiah and not GOD. The capitalization of the word He doesnt even have an impact when we compare the fact that we have to capitalize the letter I when we are talking about ourselves.Hope writes: The woman said to Him, "I know that Messiah is coming (He who is called Christ); when that One comes, He will declare all things to us." Jesus said to her, "I who speak to you am He." ' ~John 4:25,26
Hope writes: 'Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am."
These scriptures just explain that Jesus upholds and lives the qualities of GOD (LOVE, patience, consideration, forgiveness) and anyone who observes and takes notice of these examples will have a fine idea of what GOD is about. I believe this was Jesus exact PURPOSE for a physical existence.Hope writes: "And he who beholds Me beholds the One who sent Me."
"...He who has seen Me has seen the Father; how do you say, 'Show us the Father'?"
I was also told that this was the appropriate/acceptable name for GOD.Hope writes: Carrdero, one name God uses for Himself frequently in the Old Testament is I AM.
Hope writes: When Jesus said 'I AM', He was therefore claiming divinity--why else would the Pharisees then want to stone Him after He said it? When Jesus said 'I AM', He was therefore claiming divinity--why else would the Pharisees then want to stone Him after He said it? It was blasphemy in their eyes for anyone to claim to be God.
No other prophets from the Bible, that I K(NOW) of, are alive to back up those high claims.Hope writes: No other prophets in the Bible, that I know of, made such high claims
Hope writes: If Joe Schmoe off the street said to you, "Hey, look at me--don't you see God? Yup, that's right, when you see me you actually see God!"--would you believe him, or think him crazy?
Hope writes: If you have been 'enlightened', then I won't argue with you.
Hope writes: But, personally, I find your arguments not entirely convincing.