Master Hoomer
Member
can you be a christian and worship "pagan" things?
Was christ pagan?
Was christ more than Jesus?
Was Jesus the only christ? :roll:
Was christ pagan?
Was christ more than Jesus?
Was Jesus the only christ? :roll:
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Was The christ more than Jesus?
- Thread starter Master Hoomer
- Start date
Runt
Well-Known Member
The first commandment: "You shall have no other gods before Me."
RavenRose's comment:
One NeoPagan God Philosophy: Basically a polytheistic approach to monotheism. "All Gods are one God" (--"Priestess"). Or, as I like to say, "Not many gods, but many ways of looking at God." The idea is that God is largely incomprehensible as a whole and therefore most easily understood in Its various aspects. Thus pagans can chose to look at the "feminine" aspect of God by studying one facet of God (Aphrodite, Mother Mary, Morrigwen) or can focus on just the masculine side of God by studying Lugh, Baccus, or Apollo. Or we can study the storm side, or the sun, love, beauty, inspiration, or moon side, while at the same time understanding that this is only a small PART of God.
As Denny Baze and Carissa Brown say on their website about Druidism:
"It is interesting to note that most people view the Celts as a polytheistic culture. However, in my studies I have learned and firmly believe that the various deities worshipped by the Celtic people are merely aspects of one greater Source. It is not to say that these aspects are not divine, merely that they represent a portion of the total Source.
The polytheistic aspects arose from the Druidic orders to better explain the Source. No one person could hold in their mind the entirety of that which is God, or the Source, or the Divine. If you break down the forces and events into easily manageable parts, it is far easier to understand those parts. This makes it easier to focus on the specific purpose for which you are working. What this means is that if you were to need guidance in the realm of weather, for example, you would focus on communicating with the part of the Divine that is Weather.
To put it simply, the Celts were both polytheistic and monotheistic. The one Source was split into easily understandable parts, the various Celtic gods and goddesses. Members of Celtic society used these aspects as ways to communicate with and receive guidance from the Source in a way all could understand."
Of course, not ALL neoPagans see things this way. Some truly do believe that there are multiple gods, and that each is individual and seperate from the others. But if you look at paganism through the earlier view I suggested, you will find that as far as the first commandment goes, you would not be violating God's word to be pagan.
RavenRose's comment:
One NeoPagan God Philosophy: Basically a polytheistic approach to monotheism. "All Gods are one God" (--"Priestess"). Or, as I like to say, "Not many gods, but many ways of looking at God." The idea is that God is largely incomprehensible as a whole and therefore most easily understood in Its various aspects. Thus pagans can chose to look at the "feminine" aspect of God by studying one facet of God (Aphrodite, Mother Mary, Morrigwen) or can focus on just the masculine side of God by studying Lugh, Baccus, or Apollo. Or we can study the storm side, or the sun, love, beauty, inspiration, or moon side, while at the same time understanding that this is only a small PART of God.
As Denny Baze and Carissa Brown say on their website about Druidism:
"It is interesting to note that most people view the Celts as a polytheistic culture. However, in my studies I have learned and firmly believe that the various deities worshipped by the Celtic people are merely aspects of one greater Source. It is not to say that these aspects are not divine, merely that they represent a portion of the total Source.
The polytheistic aspects arose from the Druidic orders to better explain the Source. No one person could hold in their mind the entirety of that which is God, or the Source, or the Divine. If you break down the forces and events into easily manageable parts, it is far easier to understand those parts. This makes it easier to focus on the specific purpose for which you are working. What this means is that if you were to need guidance in the realm of weather, for example, you would focus on communicating with the part of the Divine that is Weather.
To put it simply, the Celts were both polytheistic and monotheistic. The one Source was split into easily understandable parts, the various Celtic gods and goddesses. Members of Celtic society used these aspects as ways to communicate with and receive guidance from the Source in a way all could understand."
Of course, not ALL neoPagans see things this way. Some truly do believe that there are multiple gods, and that each is individual and seperate from the others. But if you look at paganism through the earlier view I suggested, you will find that as far as the first commandment goes, you would not be violating God's word to be pagan.
Runt
Well-Known Member
Some examples relating to my posting above:
God as Female AND God as Male: (Genesis 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them) If women are also in Gods image, does this not mean that, at least partially, God is female as well as male? I dont mean that He is a hermaphrodite, but that the total of His energy is both male AND female and perhaps Gods nature as a whole includes every other polarity? (look at this link before you completely discount what I am saying: http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=61)
Other aspects of God:
Mother God: (Tons of images of God giving birth and showing mother-like qualities: As a mother comforts her child, so will I comfort you [Isaiah 66:13]; O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing [Matthew 23:37]; For a long time I have kept silent, I have been quiet and held myself back. But now, like a woman in childbirth, I cry out, I gasp and pant. [Isaiah 42:14], You deserted the Rock, who fathered you; you forgot the God who gave you birth. [Deuteronomy 32:18])
Father God: (mainstream Christian view of God)
Divine Child: (baby Jesus admittedly, only some Christians believe Jesus was God instead of merely his son )
Vengeful Storm God: (Nearly destroyed humankind once with a flood, said will later destroy them with fire. Gods promise manifests as a rainbow.)
Judgmental God (who will judge whether or not you get to go to Heaven when you die)
Loving God: (Sacrifice one and only son for humanity)
God of Healing: (In addition to giving Jesus the power to heal, God heals those who pray and believe, God gave Mother Teresa the ability to heal,
God of Mercy: (who forgives sins)
Sacrificial God: (Jesus again, this time dying on the cross for the sins of mankind)
Spiritual God: ("sovev," the transcendent form of God, meaning that he transcends the world and is not captured in the world nor by the world. Furthermore, he gave all people a spirit with which to contemplate the spiritual things of man [1Cor 2:11; Eccl 12:7] : life, morality, aesthetics, history, eternity, art, music, etc; ways to view the physical world, but not the physical world itself.)
Physical God: ("mimaly," the imminent aspect of being actively manifest in the world, who gave his form to mankind, who actively interacts with the world he created and is present everywhere within it).
Creator God: (Not only created universe and everything in it [Gen 1:31; Eccl 3:11], but gave humans the ability to do detailed work and create beautiful things [Ex 31:25].)
Yes, they are all aspects of God... BUT... cannot all pagan gods be aspects of the Christian God? EVERYTHING he has done cannot possibly be crammed into one book... so who knows if the pagan gods are also aspects of the Christian god, but under different names...
God as Female AND God as Male: (Genesis 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them) If women are also in Gods image, does this not mean that, at least partially, God is female as well as male? I dont mean that He is a hermaphrodite, but that the total of His energy is both male AND female and perhaps Gods nature as a whole includes every other polarity? (look at this link before you completely discount what I am saying: http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=61)
Other aspects of God:
Mother God: (Tons of images of God giving birth and showing mother-like qualities: As a mother comforts her child, so will I comfort you [Isaiah 66:13]; O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing [Matthew 23:37]; For a long time I have kept silent, I have been quiet and held myself back. But now, like a woman in childbirth, I cry out, I gasp and pant. [Isaiah 42:14], You deserted the Rock, who fathered you; you forgot the God who gave you birth. [Deuteronomy 32:18])
Father God: (mainstream Christian view of God)
Divine Child: (baby Jesus admittedly, only some Christians believe Jesus was God instead of merely his son )
Vengeful Storm God: (Nearly destroyed humankind once with a flood, said will later destroy them with fire. Gods promise manifests as a rainbow.)
Judgmental God (who will judge whether or not you get to go to Heaven when you die)
Loving God: (Sacrifice one and only son for humanity)
God of Healing: (In addition to giving Jesus the power to heal, God heals those who pray and believe, God gave Mother Teresa the ability to heal,
God of Mercy: (who forgives sins)
Sacrificial God: (Jesus again, this time dying on the cross for the sins of mankind)
Spiritual God: ("sovev," the transcendent form of God, meaning that he transcends the world and is not captured in the world nor by the world. Furthermore, he gave all people a spirit with which to contemplate the spiritual things of man [1Cor 2:11; Eccl 12:7] : life, morality, aesthetics, history, eternity, art, music, etc; ways to view the physical world, but not the physical world itself.)
Physical God: ("mimaly," the imminent aspect of being actively manifest in the world, who gave his form to mankind, who actively interacts with the world he created and is present everywhere within it).
Creator God: (Not only created universe and everything in it [Gen 1:31; Eccl 3:11], but gave humans the ability to do detailed work and create beautiful things [Ex 31:25].)
Yes, they are all aspects of God... BUT... cannot all pagan gods be aspects of the Christian God? EVERYTHING he has done cannot possibly be crammed into one book... so who knows if the pagan gods are also aspects of the Christian god, but under different names...
Master Hoomer
Member
Thankyou Runt.....
Jews have 72 different names for God......
Christians have the trinity....the Holy spirit is what a "pagan" would call the Goddess..as she is the all mother and the Shekinah of the Jews....
Personally I view each God/Goddess as seperate entities...but like a body has several limbs it is one body......
But I realise with christianity people get touchy..so I wont say anymore....
Summa Scientia Nihil Scire (as a pagan christian once said)
Jews have 72 different names for God......
Christians have the trinity....the Holy spirit is what a "pagan" would call the Goddess..as she is the all mother and the Shekinah of the Jews....
Personally I view each God/Goddess as seperate entities...but like a body has several limbs it is one body......
But I realise with christianity people get touchy..so I wont say anymore....
Summa Scientia Nihil Scire (as a pagan christian once said)
Gnosti Seauton
New Member
Jesus's name wasn't Jesus. Jesus was a Jew and therefore his name would be YHShVH or Joshua. But thats only if his name were really That which it's not. Jesus's real name was Emmanuel. Not Joshua not Jesus (Jesus is the Greek translation of Joshua) The Word YHShVH is a symbol of the perfected man. Here I will demonstrate.
The name of "God" is commonly believed to be YHVH.
that is Yod Heh Vav Heh.
Yod=Fire, the father aspects which gives the sparks of life.
Heh=Water, the mother aspect which recieves the sparks of life into here womb where they grow and are realised as.
Vav=Air, the son and
Heh=Earth, the daughter.
This is a symbol of manifested reality and of generation. Now lets look at the word YHShVH
Yod="as Above"
Heh=as Above"
Shin="Spirit, The Spirit decending into the flesh to create harmony and perfection.
Vav=as above
Heh=as above
Therefore the Name YHShVH is symbolic of the perfected "MAN". And becoming (Key word) One with god.
Ok now to my next point.
Much of the bible has been grossly mis-translated. And one might ask, "Well why doesn't anybody go back and re-translate it." the answer to this I would assume has more to do with politics than anything else.
It is not a big secret that at the advent of the Catholic church it strived to be the leading political forefront of the world. One could even say that it was bent on world domination. As such certain books did not get into the bible and some books were altered. What we have today is the grandchild of that bible of the Catholics. Even more mis-translated and even more altered from the original hebrew and aramaic text.
The point is our entire belief structre is based off this mis-translated work. And if one were to go back and re-translate it from the hebrew and aramiac text it would simply put, rip apart the threads of our society, churches would fall and christainity would be turned upside down.
Just to give you an idea of the weight of these mis-translations. Here is the first words of the bible as is currently translated.
Genesis I:I
In the begining, God......
The Literal Translation from the Hebrew:
Bera****h le Elohim......
In the Begining, the Gods and Godesses.....
Elohim is a Plural masculine with a feminine ending thus translating as Gods and Godesses. It wasn't until later that we hear that YHVH Eloha Created Man. That is a certain sect of Elohim.
This is a big mis-translation and if corrected would certainly have huge imapcts on the way people believe. The entire bible is filled with these mis-translations. So when you read the bible your not nessicaly reading what was suppose to be there.
Just my few cents worth. =)
The name of "God" is commonly believed to be YHVH.
that is Yod Heh Vav Heh.
Yod=Fire, the father aspects which gives the sparks of life.
Heh=Water, the mother aspect which recieves the sparks of life into here womb where they grow and are realised as.
Vav=Air, the son and
Heh=Earth, the daughter.
This is a symbol of manifested reality and of generation. Now lets look at the word YHShVH
Yod="as Above"
Heh=as Above"
Shin="Spirit, The Spirit decending into the flesh to create harmony and perfection.
Vav=as above
Heh=as above
Therefore the Name YHShVH is symbolic of the perfected "MAN". And becoming (Key word) One with god.
Ok now to my next point.
Much of the bible has been grossly mis-translated. And one might ask, "Well why doesn't anybody go back and re-translate it." the answer to this I would assume has more to do with politics than anything else.
It is not a big secret that at the advent of the Catholic church it strived to be the leading political forefront of the world. One could even say that it was bent on world domination. As such certain books did not get into the bible and some books were altered. What we have today is the grandchild of that bible of the Catholics. Even more mis-translated and even more altered from the original hebrew and aramaic text.
The point is our entire belief structre is based off this mis-translated work. And if one were to go back and re-translate it from the hebrew and aramiac text it would simply put, rip apart the threads of our society, churches would fall and christainity would be turned upside down.
Just to give you an idea of the weight of these mis-translations. Here is the first words of the bible as is currently translated.
Genesis I:I
In the begining, God......
The Literal Translation from the Hebrew:
Bera****h le Elohim......
In the Begining, the Gods and Godesses.....
Elohim is a Plural masculine with a feminine ending thus translating as Gods and Godesses. It wasn't until later that we hear that YHVH Eloha Created Man. That is a certain sect of Elohim.
This is a big mis-translation and if corrected would certainly have huge imapcts on the way people believe. The entire bible is filled with these mis-translations. So when you read the bible your not nessicaly reading what was suppose to be there.
Just my few cents worth. =)
Master Hoomer
Member
This is a symbol of manifested reality and of generation. Now lets look at the word YHShVH
Therefore the Name YHShVH is symbolic of the perfected "MAN". And becoming (Key word) One with god.Nice have just bee reading Regardie's Garden of Pomegranites that says the same..
PROBLEM messy Jews as I like to call them (MESSIANIC JEWS) Spell Yeshua with 4 letters!..thus your theory is bunk...lol...
Ok now to my next point.
Much of the bible has been grossly mis-translated. And one might ask, "Well why doesn't anybody go back and re-translate it."The Bible is full of holes..besides miss translations...but it matters not..the affect of the contents are what matters NOT the content...as long as the Bible works it works..it could be aboputSpeedy Gozalez...but if the afffect of the contents works..then its good..in this case...to "become" christified....Same as Buddhism really :shock:
Phanes press..publisher of the chemical wedding etc. have a newly translated NT direct from the greek www.phanes.com so it HAS been done!...as for the OT...the jewish association's version is on line!....translated from the original hebrew!....
As such certain books did not get into the bible and some books were altered. What we have today is the grandchild of that bible of the Catholics. Even more mis-translated and even more altered from the original hebrew and aramaic text.
The catholic church has done a lot of evil in the world as well as its good...but thats politics and religion!
The point is our entire belief structre is based off this mis-translated work. And if one were to go back and re-translate it from the hebrew and aramiac text it would simply put, rip apart the threads of our society, churches would fall and christainity would be turned upside down.
You really think so? NOT all cxhristians take the bible literally.....not all...
Some DO manage to see it as a teaching device and nothing more.... :roll: maybe I'm not christian "enough" nor were the british "anglican" church...I have thought long and hard...and am thinking of not allowing myself to be of anyreligion..hmmm....who knows
Just to give you an idea of the weight of these mis-translations. Here is the first words of the bible as is currently translated.
Genesis I:I
In the begining, God......
The Literal Translation from the Hebrew:
Bera****h le Elohim......
In the Begining, the Gods and Godesses.....
Elohim is a Plural masculine with a feminine ending thus translating as Gods and Godesses. It wasn't until later that we hear that YHVH Eloha Created Man. That is a certain sect of Elohim.
. =)[/quote]
In his book the Holy Kabbalah..mr Arthur edward waite states that Elohim and adonai ARE the shekinah...the shekinah is definately female...adonai and elohim beiung the manifest and unmanifest shekinah..I forget which is which.....
But yes in the hebrew God has 72 names..in english he has 1 :shock: :shock:
Therefore the Name YHShVH is symbolic of the perfected "MAN". And becoming (Key word) One with god.Nice have just bee reading Regardie's Garden of Pomegranites that says the same..
PROBLEM messy Jews as I like to call them (MESSIANIC JEWS) Spell Yeshua with 4 letters!..thus your theory is bunk...lol...
Ok now to my next point.
Much of the bible has been grossly mis-translated. And one might ask, "Well why doesn't anybody go back and re-translate it."The Bible is full of holes..besides miss translations...but it matters not..the affect of the contents are what matters NOT the content...as long as the Bible works it works..it could be aboputSpeedy Gozalez...but if the afffect of the contents works..then its good..in this case...to "become" christified....Same as Buddhism really :shock:
Phanes press..publisher of the chemical wedding etc. have a newly translated NT direct from the greek www.phanes.com so it HAS been done!...as for the OT...the jewish association's version is on line!....translated from the original hebrew!....
As such certain books did not get into the bible and some books were altered. What we have today is the grandchild of that bible of the Catholics. Even more mis-translated and even more altered from the original hebrew and aramaic text.
The catholic church has done a lot of evil in the world as well as its good...but thats politics and religion!
The point is our entire belief structre is based off this mis-translated work. And if one were to go back and re-translate it from the hebrew and aramiac text it would simply put, rip apart the threads of our society, churches would fall and christainity would be turned upside down.
You really think so? NOT all cxhristians take the bible literally.....not all...
Some DO manage to see it as a teaching device and nothing more.... :roll: maybe I'm not christian "enough" nor were the british "anglican" church...I have thought long and hard...and am thinking of not allowing myself to be of anyreligion..hmmm....who knows
Just to give you an idea of the weight of these mis-translations. Here is the first words of the bible as is currently translated.
Genesis I:I
In the begining, God......
The Literal Translation from the Hebrew:
Bera****h le Elohim......
In the Begining, the Gods and Godesses.....
Elohim is a Plural masculine with a feminine ending thus translating as Gods and Godesses. It wasn't until later that we hear that YHVH Eloha Created Man. That is a certain sect of Elohim.
. =)[/quote]
In his book the Holy Kabbalah..mr Arthur edward waite states that Elohim and adonai ARE the shekinah...the shekinah is definately female...adonai and elohim beiung the manifest and unmanifest shekinah..I forget which is which.....
But yes in the hebrew God has 72 names..in english he has 1 :shock: :shock:
Master Hoomer
Member
Jesus was calleed emmanuel....hmm I'll never look at cheap porn the same way again
Azhria Lilu
Member
:lol: :lol: :lol: