Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
We have dead people, dead as any dead person living in another existence,
"Super-physical" is a made up term that has no recognised meaning. If you are proposing a mechanism behind this phenomena, "super-physcial" or otherwise, it still needs to be coherently identified. Without that, you can't make any definitive statements about their causes.Maybe there's no "coherent identification of the physical mechanisms involved" because the mechanisms are super-physical (spiritual) in the NDE.
That is a viable hypothesis but it doesn't change my fundamental point. You're still talking about some form of energy (known or unknown) being transferred for which there is currently zero evidence while there is some evidence of consciousness being generated by the brain.Here's the viable hypothesis. Consciousness is not a product of the physical brain. Consciousness only expresses itself through the physical brain during physical life. After physical death consciousness moves back to where it was previously 'focused'; super-physical realms/dimensions.
They require nothing of the kind. There is no reason why all reported NDEs can't be explained by "conventional" mechanisms. There could be as yet unknown mechanisms involved but to state that as truth you would need to identify those mechanisms and demonstrate that they are occurring.Dreams and false memories are not spiritual phenomena and we can find physical mechanisms. The NDE's require super-physical mechanisms.
Not yet found and all that points to is that they remain unexplained. If my friend was in London yesterday and New York today but I don't know how he travelled, it would not be reasonable to assume he learned to teleport.The fact that 'physical mechanisms' are not found with the NDE, actually argues more in favor of NDE's being genuine.
Maybe there's no "coherent identification of the physical mechanisms involved" because the mechanisms are super-physical (spiritual) in the NDE.
Here's the viable hypothesis. Consciousness is not a product of the physical brain. Consciousness only expresses itself through the physical brain during physical life. After physical death consciousness moves back to where it was previously 'focused'; super-physical realms/dimensions.
Dreams and false memories are not spiritual phenomena and we can find physical mechanisms. The NDE's require super-physical mechanisms.
The fact that 'physical mechanisms' are not found with the NDE, actually argues more in favor of NDE's being genuine.
"Super-physical" is a made up term that has no recognised meaning.
If you are proposing a mechanism behind this phenomena, "super-physcial" or otherwise, it still needs to be coherently identified. Without that, you can't make any definitive statements about their causes.
That is a viable hypothesis but it doesn't change my fundamental point. You're still talking about some form of energy (known or unknown) being transferred for which there is currently zero evidence while there is some evidence of consciousness being generated by the brain.
Vedic science isn't. It lacks the foundation of science - experiment.Not true at all. Things above the physical plane are talked about and described very well in eastern (Indian) Vedic science. Not to mention 150 years of western psychical/paranormal research. I'm going to assume that since the term is not defined in western science is why you're calling it 'a made up term'.
There is no experimental evidence to suggest that conciousness is non-physical, or for that matter, anything more than data.No transfer of energy takes place. Consciousness just moves its focus from the physical vehicle to its super-physical vehicle (these super-physical bodies are discussed in detail in Vedic science). If you are just studying events on the physical plane you won't detect any transfer of energy.
There is no experimental evidence to suggest that conciousness is non-physical, or for that matter, anything more than data.
Physical experiments to find the super-physical is almost by definition impossible. I believe that Vedic Science, 150 years of psychical research and millions of untold personal experiences leads me to believe there's something there.
What does Vedic science have to say on the issue?
What is this 150 years of "psychical research"?
If the personal experiences are untold, how do you know about them?
And why do you think personal experiences that aren't repeatable or verifiable have so much weight in terms of evidence?
Vedic science is vast beyond what I or any one person knows. On this issue, in a nutshell, it says we are pure consciousness limited by five bodies (sheaths). The outer sheath is what we call the physical body. After death we first experience but through one less sheath.
Paranormal research of which the NDE discussed in this thread is one topic amoung many.
There are many topics that imply physical only conciousness is an insufficient explanation..
So many people I have heard tell individual stories that suggest a paranormal explanation. It's obvious I could have only heard the tiniest, tiniest fraction of them considering how many billions have lived.
Each personal experience may be a thread. Enough threads can make a strong twine.
Not directly. Science isn't western, it's a very general set of concepts, principals and methods the early aspects of which were developed in the East while we were still hitting rocks with bigger rocks.I'm going to assume that since the term is not defined in western science is why you're calling it 'a made up term'.
Great. You should be able to point us to a precise description of the mechanisms for life after death and NDEs and the methods used to identify them. I suggest you're no more able to do that than anyone else is. The fact remains that this field is firmly within everyone's "don't know" area.It has been 'coherently identified' in Vedic science.
So you know exactly how NDEs are explained yet it is impossible to demonstrate? You seem to have as much misplaced confidence and unsupported faith in your assumptions as those how claim any form of "spiritual" explanation for NDEs is impossible.No transfer of energy takes place. Consciousness just moves its focus from the physical vehicle to its super-physical vehicle (these super-physical bodies are discussed in detail in Vedic science). If you are just studying events on the physical plane you won't detect any transfer of energy.
Now that we are getting evidence that there is an afterlife, through NDEs and through interaction with the spirit world, the only questions now is which religion is correct. I know, but do you?
"Dr Eben Alexander, a Harvard-educated neurosurgeon... ...says he had heard stories from patients who spoke of outer body experiences but had disregarded them as "wishful thinking" but has reconsidered his opinion"... Afterlife exists says top brain surgeon - Telegraph
Vedic, Theosophical and other literature provide a quite detailed description of the mechanisms involved. If you're waiting for physical proof of the super-physical it may be by definition impossible and you will never be satisified.You should be able to point us to a precise description of the mechanisms for life after death and NDEs and the methods used to identify them.
So you know exactly how NDEs are explained yet it is impossible to demonstrate?
You seem to have as much misplaced confidence and unsupported faith in your assumptions as those how claim any form of "spiritual" explanation for NDEs is impossible.
Now that we are getting evidence that there is an afterlife, through NDEs and through interaction with the spirit world, the only questions now is which religion is correct. I know, but do you?
"Dr Eben Alexander, a Harvard-educated neurosurgeon... ...says he had heard stories from patients who spoke of outer body experiences but had disregarded them as "wishful thinking" but has reconsidered his opinion"... Afterlife exists says top brain surgeon - Telegraph
If these experiences are legit, then why do the Jesus' in people's NDEs look different?
Jesus - near-death experiences
How do we know that we are not in the afterlife now?
Now that we are getting evidence that there is an afterlife, through NDEs and through interaction with the spirit world, the only questions now is which religion is correct. I know, but do you?
"Dr Eben Alexander, a Harvard-educated neurosurgeon... ...says he had heard stories from patients who spoke of outer body experiences but had disregarded them as "wishful thinking" but has reconsidered his opinion"... Afterlife exists says top brain surgeon - Telegraph
God-like intelligences wouldn't believe in any justice, because they wouldn't believe in free will, especially so if they evolved from us by whatever means.One of my favorite articles from author, Nathan L. Earney.
"And the angel spoke to me... Imagine dying, going through a tunnel of light and then waking up to a winged humanoid looking Angel. "
"Yes, this is the Heaven, but not in the way you were taught to believe. We are in this Angel form becouse we are simply another advanced race who transported your consciousness at your time of death because we decided to give you an afterlife. You do have a choice to go back into the silence if you desire."
"We've been doing it for eons. We are of the oldest in conscious existence. You deserved the gift and reward for being good. You passed the test. We operate and record everything at a distance from the other side of the Universe... Our knowledge and technology is what you would call works of God. We just like giving all the good conscious beings who we observe from afar a second Life... it's our part in the grand scheme of Eternal Justice...
Second Contemplation...
"Yes, this is the Heaven. But, we are actually your own species a million years into the future who went transhuman and developed the backwards engineering technology to resurrect you by extraction and deduction, to the exact point when you died, of course before your consciousness evaporated into the silence. Our AI machinese do most the work. The tunnel simply sent you through a zillion light years distance to our cosmic place or a million years from the past into your own future in one instant... so smile immortals... and hope that you're not in trouble...and above all, behave yourself."
Right now, in our limited infant stage of discovery/development we would only make a replica version of ourselves, which would just be a different person. Same thing with teleportation.
This is becouse of the "I-ness" factor. Our so called non-stop consciousness or I-ness cannot be transferred yet. There is no pause for it either. If it pauses we cease to exist (so they say) and whatever pops out the other side is just a copy. We are not even near it, but everything is going to change about everything. At the rate of scientific and tech. advancement going on at present, we will nearly have super god-like powers in only about three hundred years. Now, imagine a million years into the future, hence. Really! Can it even be contemplated? From nano tech to energy based tools, AI and beyond. There is just no possible way to describe it- The Civilization of Light. OUR VERY DESTINATION!
Now, when you die and see that tunnel of light. That "tunnel" could most likely be a million years into your own future and our god-like species resurrected and recreated you, reverse engineered to the moment of your death. Sure, it seemed like a moment to you but it certainly wasn't. If they have wings or something that may be becouse the civilization went transhuman and hybrid. This here is just another example of the ways of thought absolutely nobody bothers concieving... Integrate those pieces together and apply it to us as a growing species through eons. Overlook the mere holes you can find in this cheap example, for it is irrelevant. You will see that afterlife and immortality is THE only real eternal, Universal Justice for all deserving, decent and good conscious beings... either by religion or no religion at all or even by other civilizations, it makes no difference. Either way leads to the same ending result! Yes?
The chances that an afterlife and immortality exists, by whatever means and direction, is so great it dwarfs all other ridiculous, illogical theories that imply it doesn't, won't and has never....
And, to top it all off. All advanced civilizations get help from all others with the task of giving the afterlife to all in a future Civilization of Light... And that advancement, knowledge and power is endless, undefeatable. The Creator, making sure everyone is taken care of no matter how they died or were destroyed. There is sure to be some sort of life review and reward or penalty for the way you choose to live and treat others in this Life (karma). So, you know what? All is just and fair... ultamitely.
And, lets not forget time travel. If such power is indeed possible then you should be able to conclude it will be used for providing an afterlife and immortality to every conscious being who has ever existed. That would be the first PRODUCT demanded from time travel. Think about it! With their concsiousness transferring tech. and dimensional technology, upon dead, you will find yourself zapped into a billion year old Civilization of Light a billions years into the future...
And, last but not least there is already a science of deduction. That is, a way of determining the condition or form of everything by means of observing the relationship and association of trace elements. Everything can be reverse engineered to original state and form- becouse we live in a cause and effect Universe.
Perhaps there is like a great mirror that may be created which lets one see anything in time. Realize that if any of this "far fetched" stuff is even near a possibility then the afterlife will be a fact. But, even further, the point, if we are discussing such things now...imagine later what will be discussed...
So, do realize... if you believe in time travel or super advanced civilizations. It is a good wager that you're in contrafiction of yourself if you don't also believe an afterlife will be a possibility.....
1. A GOD means an afterlife... Developed Time Travel equals an afterlife! Our civilization a million years from now most likely means an afterlife! Billion year old super advanced alien civilizations. What do you think they'd eventually provide to the cosmos? Immortality or an afterlife to all deserving!
So, take your pick... And, above all, be a good person...
:medwheel::
Why should only one religion among many religions, be the absolute holder of all that is True?