Christians: If

I watched part one it says giants were created by the atmospheric conditions, not spirit influence. I mean by angels raping humans.

savagewind said:

I watched part one it says giants were created by the atmospheric conditions, not spirit influence. I mean by angels raping humans.

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I'm sorry...I can't find the documentary I saw. I'll try and search for it if you want.
but there's plenty of other videos you can check out on youtube.

savagewind said:

How is it some people believe Nephilim were children of angels? The Nephilim were mentioned after Noah landed. What were they then?

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Not Angels...Demons.
"The children of the supernatural beings who had married these women became famous heroes and warriors. They were called Nephilim and lived on the earth at that time and even later."
I'm not even sure of what they were exactly but I know Goliath from the story of King David was a descendant from them.
A couple of the links I gave you have pretty good explanations (In my opinion). I encourage you to check them out.
And if you contemplate the idea...a lot of Greek mythology and pagan beliefs have similarities with the story of Jesus. Many people have brought this point up when trying to disprove the divinity of Jesus but where did those "myths" come from? The concept of a Messiah or savior has always existed (e.g.myths, movies, comic books) I believe it is and was because of the prophecy God gave to Satan in the beginning after Adam and Eve sinned (Genesis 3:13-15).
I believe lies are inspire by truth. A lie wouldn't exist unless a there was a foundation of truth to twist or manipulate. There's always a lie and a truth and each are opposites of one another. Even in the beginning of (God's) creation there was only truth until Satan came and twisted the Truth (to Eve).
Anyway....I think maybe I'm gearing off topic so I'll leave it at that; unless you'd like to post another thread or want me to or just want to continue with this topic; it's totally up to you.
For now....It's late and I'm wiped out so I'll check on you tomorrow..
God Bless and Good night.....:sleep:

My thread about believing lies is about trusting fables. I will post there. Thanks so much for participating! It seems not to fit there either. I shall start a new thread.....

If 'Jesus Christ' is the way, the TRUTH, and the life and 'Satan' is the father of the lie, to believe something is true that is not true is siding with which one?

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"If a picture is worth ten thousand words, then one twenty-five hundredth of a picture should be worth four words. and if Helen of Troy had the face that launched a thousand ships, and a picture is worth ten thousand words, doesn't that mean that one picture of Helen's face should be worth ten thousand ships? And if the night has a thousand eyes, and getting there is half the fun, that means to have fun getting there at night would require five hundred eyes. And, if getting there is half the fun, and half a loaf is better than none, would getting halfway there with a whole loaf be more or less fun? And if half a loaf is better than none, the night has a thousand eyes, a picture is worth ten thousand words, getting there is half the fun, and Helen of troy had the face that launched a thousand ships, then, in a picture taken at night from a ship that's halfway there, how much fun would Helen be having if she were holding a full loaf? And could you see it in her eyes? OK, now suppose Helen of Troy lived in a halfway house..."

--George Carlin, Brain Droppings
If a picture is worth ten thousand words (the actual proverb is "One picture is worth ten thousand words -- Confucius:") then one twenty-five hundredth of a picture should be worth four words.
And if Helen of Troy had the face that launched a thousand ships, and a picture is worth ten thousand words, doesn't that mean that one picture of Helen's face should be worth ten thousand ships?
And, if the night has a thousand eyes, and getting there is half the fun, that means to have fun getting there at night would require five hundred eyes.
And, if getting there is half the fun, and a half a loaf is better than none, would getting halfway there with a whole loaf be more or less fun?
And if half a loaf is better than none, the night has a thousand eyes, a picture is worth ten thousand words, getting there is half the fun, and Helen of Troy had the face that launched a thousand ships, then in a picture taken at night from a ship that is halfway there, how much fun would Helen be having if she were holding a full loaf? And could you see it in her eyes?
OK, now suppose Helen of Troy lived in a halfway house....I
If a picture is worth ten thousand words (the actual proverb is "One picture is worth ten thousand words -- Confucius:") then one twenty-five hundredth of a picture should be worth four words.
And if Helen of Troy had the face that launched a thousand ships, and a picture is worth ten thousand words, doesn't that mean that one picture of Helen's face should be worth ten thousand ships?
And, if the night has a thousand eyes, and getting there is half the fun, that means to have fun getting there at night would require five hundred eyes.
And, if getting there is half the fun, and a half a loaf is better than none, would getting halfway there with a whole loaf be more or less fun?
And if half a loaf is better than none, the night has a thousand eyes, a picture is worth ten thousand words, getting there is half the fun, and Helen of Troy had the face that launched a thousand ships, then in a picture taken at night from a ship that is halfway there, how much fun would Helen be having if she were holding a full loaf? And could you see it in her eyes?
OK, now suppose Helen of Troy lived in a halfway house....

Did you make that invisible on purpose? Yes, I believe God does not require anyone to know the whole truth and nothing but the truth. But I am sure God requires us to be going in the right direction and on the right road. Isaiah 35:8 And a highway will be there; it will be called the Way of Holiness. The unclean will not journey on it; it will be for those who walk in that Way; wicked fools will not go about on it.

savagewind said:

If to believe a lie means to side with Satan and so some of Christendom is siding with Satan for believing something not true because all of Christendom does not believe the same, then it is righteousness for the people not to gather to the congregation because they have been warned there is only one way so those who are believing something that is not true are disregarding the warning at Hebrews 10:24,25. Is it not so?

Ephesian 4:1-6

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savagewind,
There is much to your question, I don't know where to start, please bear with me.
As you stated, a lie is only a lie if you know it is a lie, but that does not leave a person guiltless, if he furthers a lie. Consider how Peter put this at 2Pet 3:15-18, notice that untaught ones are also twisting to their own destruction. You see teachers are required to make sure of what they teach, James 3:1. This is because a person might cause a person to believe a false doctrine, which could lead to the death of that person, the very person who Jesus died for, 1Cor 8:11, Rom 14:15. Jesus told his disciples just how bad it is to stumble someone, Matt 18:6,7.
If a person teaches wrong doctrines, the person taught is then worshipping a god they do not really know, John 4:22. You could even be zealous for your beliefs, but if not according to accurate knowledge, you will never be righteous to The Only True God, but are trying to estabolish their own righteousness, Eph 4:4-6, Rom 10:2.
Anyone who wants to teach must do as the scriptures say, we must PROVE to ourselves what the god and the acceptable and the perfect will of God is, Rom 12:2.
We must also be able to answer any question anyone asks us about why we believe the way we do, 1Pet 3:15.
As for siding with Satan if we believe the lie, it is exactly what the Bible says at 2Tim 2:24-26.
Consider just how important it is to learn the truth. Read closely what is said at 2Thess 2:9-14. Also consider Ps 5:6.
Just to finish this on a authoritarian note, notice what Jesus said, John 4:23,24.
The only place where we can get information that is always correct and up to date is the Holy Bible, because it is God's WORD, Isa 40:8, 1Pet 1:25, 2Tim 3:16,17, John 17:17.

savagewind said:

How is it some people believe Nephilim were children of angels? The Nephilim were mentioned after Noah landed. What were they then?

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Greeting savagewind, this is a topic that I have researched very thoroughly if I may add to the thread some additional information....

The Nephilim were the offspring of materialized angels and human women. It is not a fable or a parable. Jesus used 'the days of Noah' as an example of what the situation would be like in these 'last days'....violence and immorality and an 'eat drink and do as you please' mentality, resulting in a lack of obedience to God's warning of impending destruction. (Matt 24:37-39; 2 Tim 3:1-5) The flood was a very real event.
Greek mythology takes a good deal of its stories from the pre-flood gods and demi-gods, who were often licentious and violent.

Why do we assume that these spirit beings needed God's permission to materialize? What if they had that as an inherent ability because they were meant to be (among other duties) the messengers between man and God? The angels that became demons simply abused their free will (with the ability to materialize human form,) to indulge in the pleasures of the flesh.

For angels to materialize human form and have sexual union with human women, (which produced offspring,) is a complete perversion of their creation. They are A-sexual beings who were never designed to procreate. The children produced by these materialized fathers reflected their unnatural DNA. They were gigantic, violent bullies whose influence touched every facet of life in Noah's time causing the 'inclination of the thoughts of mankind to be bad all the time'. (Gen 6:5)

To rid the earth of these unnatural creatures that he never gave permission to exist, God sent a deluge and wiped every last one of them off the surface of the earth. Not a single one survived. Their errant fathers were forced to abandon their fleshly bodies and return to the spirit realm where God placed them in a condition of restraint, called Tartarus. It is obvious that this is not a place of literal confinement, but a condition that does not allow them to materialize flesh again. Satan had free access to both heaven and earth as was demonstrated in the case of Job. But the time would come when he and his hordes of rebels would be kicked out of heaven, just as Adam and his wife were kicked out of Eden. Their confinement to the earth would then bring "woe" for mankind in many ways. (Rev 12:12)

The "Nephilim" mentioned in the scriptures after the flood were in no way related to the pre flood Nephilim. The "sons of Anak" or the Anakim were simply a very tall race of men, just like the Massai in Africa. (Deut 9:1, 2) We have giants even today who are the product of genetic malfunctions. A rogue gene could have produced a very tall race of people...(just as pygmies are a race of very small people.) But the Bible tells us that the original Nephilim were completely destroyed. The demons could not save a single one of them.

In later periods, people simply compared these very tall people to the legendary giants of Noah's time.

Hope that helps

I have heard that explanation before. It is almost word for word what the Jehovah's Witnesses teach.

There is something I must disagree with. You say Tatarus is the place where God has restrained the wayward angels so that they do not walk the Earth anymore. Because the place they were delivered to is described as dark I cannot be persuaded it means their power is removed. I am sure it means they exist without understanding.*

"deep gloom" Akin to the base of nephos; gloom (as shrouding like a cloud) -- blackness, darkness, mist. Strong's Greek: 2217.


*Light means understanding, true knowledge, a faithful guide.
Matthew 5:14 "You are the light of the world. A city on a hill cannot be hidden.
John 8:12 When Jesus spoke again to the people, he said, "I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life."
John 9:5 "While I am in the world, I am the light of the world."
John 12:36 Put your trust in the light while you have it, so that you may become sons of light
Philippians 2:15 so that you may become blameless and pure, children of God without fault in a crooked and depraved generation, in which you shine like stars in the universe

Light does not mean power so dark does not mean powerless (to make a body with sperm anymore).

It is funny the argument for the fallen angels living as human men is there are examples of angels visiting the Earth (as messengers). But ....oh nevermind...

savagewind said:

I have heard that explanation before. It is almost word for word what the Jehovah's Witnesses teach.

There is something I must disagree with. You say Tatarus is the place where God has restrained the wayward angels so that they do not walk the Earth anymore. Because the place they were delivered to is described as dark I cannot be persuaded it means their power is removed. I am sure it means they exist without understanding.*

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No, you have misunderstood me SW. I said Tartarus is not a physical place of confinement but a spiritual condition. A condition of restraint, meaning that certain abilities were withdrawn from them and they are, as you said, kept in spiritual darkness.
They were free to roam the earth and to access heaven as well. So it wasn't like a prison, but a rather a condition of restraint.

The fact that they could materialize bodies with ability to procreate is how "human" these beings could become. Their offspring had no permission from God to even exist.

It is funny the argument for the fallen angels living as human men is there are examples of angels visiting the Earth (as messengers). But ....oh nevermind...

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Yes, and I think you know the visit to Abraham at Mamre is where one of the more well known encounters took place. Three angels materialized as men, visited them and ate the banquet Sarah was asked to prepare for them. It was at this time that the angel told Abraham that his wife would bear him a son. (Gen 18:1-15)

Their next assignment was when two of them left for Sodom in order to rescue Lot and his family, and bring the city to destruction.

A liar is someone who does not speak the truth. The truth being the word of the Lord.

I am assuming it is true all scripture is inspired of God and beneficial. I don't assume "all" means every passage of scripture that if believed will benefit the person. I believe all scripture means in total or the WHOLE of scripture. What happens when it is looked at in it's wholeness is it brings the past, present and future together and then the person seeing gets a glimpse of Heaven's view. Looked at it with the same faith of Jesus it is possible to get God's view. (if you read my post somewhere in which I said I have seen God, that is how it happened).

They were written by the power of The Holy Spirit. I believe it. The Holy Spirit is not for teaching law. The Holy Spirit is for teaching love. I am assuming no one can disagree with that.

Some people believe the Bible interprets itself. I think it is true.

The Bible does not interpret itself by the manner of men. The way it interprets itself is by the manner of Heaven. That means it cannot be picked apart. People do pick it apart but that is not what it is for.

Jesus has proved to me that I must not lean on my own understanding about what is written under the infuence of The Holy Spirit. People are doing that. That's a fact.

So then to my point. If anything of the Whole Scripture is misunderstood, the misunderstanding becomes like leaven. The more leaven, the more difficult it is to see the whole picture.

What I can see that has happened is Religion has busied itself adding leaven.

But the original was written leaven free under the power of The Holy Spirit. To twist scriptures' original meaning is to sin against The Holy Spirit.

How is sinning against The Holy Spirit not forgiven? The Word that has been graciously given us by God is what is able to lead us to the place of Psalm 23. But if leaven is to be believed, it won't lead us there. Where you are led is where you will be. Where you will be is not able to be forgiven because it is where you are.