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Christians: If

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
If 'Jesus Christ' is the way, the TRUTH, and the life and 'Satan' is the father of the lie, to believe something is true that is not true is siding with which one? Can a person go back and forth to each side?

I have heard that to lie according to what the Bible says about it is to speak something false for evil ends on purpose. If that is true, then it does not matter if what you believe is true or not. That is a third answer.

1. Does it mean siding with Satan to believe a lie?
2. Can a person go back and forth between truth and falsehood?
3. Does believing a lie have no consequence because to lie means to tell a lie that causes ill will, but 'white lies' don't mean anything?
 

Super Universe

Defender of God
Error is not sin.

Sin is knowing God's will and purposely going against it. Humans do not know God's will so sin does not apply to them, yet.

Satan is nothing but an excuse. He was involved with the rebellion but he has no real power anymore and even when he did have power the amount of fear that humans have towards him is completely undeserved.
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Mistakes are not sin, I agree.
How is error not sin? According to what is written Matthew 7:26 I will disagree.

And every one that hears these sayings of mine, and does them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, who built his house upon the sand And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

Sin is knowing God's will and purposely going against it.

1 Timothy 2:3,4 This is good, and pleases God our Savior who wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of truth

Humans do not know God's will so sin does not apply to them, yet.
I would like to hear more about this please.
 

Super Universe

Defender of God
Mistakes are not sin, I agree.
How is error not sin? According to what is written Matthew 7:26 I will disagree.

And every one that hears these sayings of mine, and does them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, who built his house upon the sand And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.



1 Timothy 2:3,4 This is good, and pleases God our Savior who wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of truth

I would like to hear more about this please.

Try for a moment to think in universal terms instead of simple human terms. Not everything Jesus said was just for humans, it was also for the angels and other ascended beings to hear and understand. Jesus had not taken His throne yet because He still had to finish His earth bestowal so, you can understand, the celestial beings who were hard at work in the universe were quite interested in what He had to say. Who was this new leader of the universe, the Son of God, they wondered.

So a man is foolish, would that be something we rarely see on the earth? Who has not done something foolish?

God and Jesus do want all men, and women, to come to a knowledge of truth, eventually, but think of it this way, how fast do you want your children to grow up?

We are like children to the universe. Life is what matters. Rich life does not matter more than a poor life. Being right does not matter more than being wrong. Happy life is not worth more than a sad life.

A baby might only live a day but still has a chance at heaven. Humans might smile more often if they realized that.
 
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savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I think I understand what you are saying except this;
A baby might only live a day but still has a chance at heaven
. Do you mean to say "have a chance"? What does that mean please?

I think of God all the time in universal terms. That is why I suffer forum. Not that it is bad but I hope sometime someone might realize it can be insufferable sometimes.

I wish we could stop calling The Messiah by his Greek name. The reason is universal.

God and Jesus do want all men, and women, to come to a knowledge of truth, eventually, but think of it this way, how fast do you want your children to grow up?

'Jesus' warned us we can not be serving two masters. If we are serving the Master of the Lie we cannot grow up, can we?

[I did question myself very briefly whether master of lies should be a proper name or not.] What do you think?
 
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9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
Hey, savagewind: this thread is in Same Faith Debates. Could you specify which faith (or faith group) it's directed toward so we can add this to the thread title?
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Your welcome.


There is a big difference between consideration and buying into something. To ponder something and to accept as fact are different.

The definition of accept is; to believe the goodness, realness of something.

The question of the op is; Does believing something is good and real that is not true mean siding with the wicked one? Does accepting an untruth to believe it putting yourself in opposition to The Lord God? I think yes, it does. Please convince me otherwise.
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
If to believe a lie means to side with Satan and so some of Christendom is siding with Satan for believing something not true because all of Christendom does not believe the same, then it is righteousness for the people not to gather to the congregation because they have been warned there is only one way so those who are believing something that is not true are disregarding the warning at Hebrews 10:24,25. Is it not so?

Ephesian 4:1-6
 
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Super Universe

Defender of God
I think I understand what you are saying except this; . Do you mean to say "have a chance"? What does that mean please?

I think of God all the time in universal terms. That is why I suffer forum. Not that it is bad but I hope sometime someone might realize it can be insufferable sometimes.

I wish we could stop calling The Messiah by his Greek name. The reason is universal.



'Jesus' warned us we can not be serving two masters. If we are serving the Master of the Lie we cannot grow up, can we?

[I did question myself very briefly whether master of lies should be a proper name or not.] What do you think?
We all have a chance at heaven. Some, unfortunately, just quit. They don't want to do all the work, or they don't care. Sometimes they just can't get over the fact that God allowed something bad to happen to them in life. Sometimes they can't accept that the universe is full of life and designed to be like a school or training system because they don't like being just another average life form.

The surprising ones who sometimes quit are those who have a very high sense of morality and can't get over what they've done, they feel they should have known better when there was just no way they could have.

No one serves Satan, not even those who "think" they do. He has no real power over you or anyone anymore. When Jesus issued warnings, sometimes they were meant for that specific timeframe, not so much for now. Lucifer chose to rebel just as Jesus was bestowing upon the earth, the perfect time for it, but even the perfect time is not enough to bring victory to Lucifer over the Son of God.

I don't know if you would be interested in reading a portion of the Urantia Book but it might give you a better understanding of who Jesus was and why He did the things He did. It also details the Lucifer Rebellion and what happened to Satan.

The UB is available online and in a PDF that you can download. The UB details Jesus earth life, almost day to day. The other parts of the UB are rather difficult for humans to accept so I would recommend reading them after the Life and Teachings of Jesus.
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I hear you saying the thing that is called Satan is not a threat anymore.
Matthew 24:12,13 comes to mind. Does this not apply anymore?
Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved.

If it does still apply, what is it I must stand firm about please?
 

Super Universe

Defender of God
I hear you saying the thing that is called Satan is not a threat anymore.
Matthew 24:12,13 comes to mind. Does this not apply anymore?
Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved.

If it does still apply, what is it I must stand firm about please?

In Matthew 24:4 to 8 Jesus is foretelling the far future.

In Matthew 24:9 and 10 He foretells the near future for the Apostles.

In Matthew 24: 11 and 12 He once again foretells the far future.

In Matthew 24: 13 and 14 Jesus wants us to always have faith and hope.

It's confusing, I know. The writers of these old books did their best but they were not perfect in their retelling.

Be firm in your faith that there is something better and there is a reason for all of this. You can't see it now but in your future you will absolutely understand and accept that this is necessary.
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Be firm in your faith that there is something better and there is a reason for all of this

A person need not believe in Messiah to believe there is something better and a reason for all this. All what btw?
 

Super Universe

Defender of God
OK his far future or our far future?

This section of Matthew mixes in the near future, just after Jesus death, and the far future, World Wars/Holocaust, and even our future.

Matthew 24:2 is about a time just after Jesus crucifixion. This is why there isn't much evidence for a town of Nazareth.

Matthew 24:3 the Apostles are asking for a sign about the end of the age (not the end of the world).

Matthew 24:4 and 5 Jesus is warning against false Messiah's. Many would say that we have these types of people now but I'm afraid that there are more in our future. I suspect the ones in the future may have super human abilities so many will think they are the Messiah, but by their fruits will you know them.

Matthew 24:6 and 7 wars will break out near and far... but the end (of the age) won't come.

Matthew 24:8 I won't go into.

I can't say that there will be no more wars or earthquakes. What I would say is that the end of the age is the end of humanity NOT knowing God exists. The age of darkness is the time that humanity spent unaware of God. All will be awakened and know absolutely positively without a doubt that God exists.
 

Super Universe

Defender of God
A person need not believe in Messiah to believe there is something better and a reason for all this. All what btw?

A person need not believe in a Messiah to believe there is something better? Yeah, I agree.

All what? The disconnection from God and the overwhelming sense of loneliness it causes in some human personality types.
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
OK thank you. It sounds like you came from the same religious background as I did. (Jehovah's Witness). What you have said that is much different is that "a baby has a chance to be heaven bound". Your explanation touched on choices people make but babies do not make choices. My question has so far gone unanswered I think.
 

ChristineES

Tiggerism
Premium Member
I expect that God forgives us for mistakes. That is different that deliberately following a falsehood.
 
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