Beauty Contests - A thing of the past ?

michel · Jan 6, 2006

angellous_evangellous said:
That's why the question and answer portion is so stupid. They are great to look at, but absolute punishment to listen to.

I think you are being a bit hard, there........not all of them are.......

Radar said:
I personally don't care for beauty contest or any of the like. I think it just feeds the already distorted view of beauty we have and gets rid of beauty being in the eye of the beholder. It is telling us what is beauty and who is beautiful. It fuels anorexia, bulimia, and other eating disorders. It feeds on the self esteem of regular women and tells them that they are ugly. So they cut and mutilate their bodies in the persuit of someones view of perfection. What do these pagents tell our daughters? I don't see the importance or the need for these to go on and really do think they should go away.

Actually, I think you have hit the nail on the head (especially about the anorexia, Bulimia, and other psychological 'put downs').

It is still Society and the media that portrays the image that "skinny and tall is right" - which, I agree with you, has a very negative effect on adolescent girls.

How do you fight this problem though ?

Radar · Jan 6, 2006

michel said:
I think you are being a bit hard, there........not all of them are.......

Actually, I think you have hit the nail on the head (especially about the anorexia, Bulimia, and other psychological 'put downs').

It is still Society and the media that portrays the image that "skinny and tall is right" - which, I agree with you, has a very negative effect on adolescent girls.

How do you fight this problem though ?

Fight this would be hard. Becuase all the money driving these types of industries. But things are coming around slowly like we have beautiful plus size models now. This is something that society as a whole needs to combat. If we as people would stand up to this then the money driven industry would have to listen or face profit losses. But society on a grand scale is brainwashed and it really would require generations to change. But I will do the best I can in my own family to broaden the the boarders of beauty and I can only ask you to do the same.

michel · Jan 6, 2006

Radar said:
Fight this would be hard. Becuase all the money driving these types of industries. But things are coming around slowly like we have beautiful plus size models now. This is something that society as a whole needs to combat. If we as people would stand up to this then the money driven industry would have to listen or face profit losses. But society on a grand scale is brainwashed and it really would require generations to change. But I will do the best I can in my own family to broaden the the boarders of beauty and I can only ask you to do the same.

I must admit, I have heard the odd one or two "I'm overweight, and happy" Women on television....but although I reluctantly agree with you that it is not easy to change trnds or traits in Society, that only makes me feel more frustrated.

If there is something that really annoys me, it is to sit at home, feeling impotent, and unable to change things I can see are wrong (and what is more, I am fully aware that there are loads of individuals, just like me, feeling just as frustrated as I ). GRRR:banghead3

Maybe we ought to start a "Rebell against society Forum"

angellous_evangellous · Jan 6, 2006

michel said:
I think you are being a bit hard, there........not all of them are.......

From my experience, the vast majority of those gals express emptiness of character and depth of wisdom and knowledge.

I'm not shallow enough to watch those silly programs on mute.

They look good, that's their value, and it's not very deep. I am sure that they are only saying what they think the judges want to hear (art and helping children), and many of the girls perhaps are very talented, wise, and educated.

By default, beauty pagents can't be much more than a display of outward "beauty" and therefore is limited in its scope to what some people think is attractive, and ignores what most people think is truly important in life.

angellous_evangellous · Jan 6, 2006

Radar said:
Fight this would be hard. Becuase all the money driving these types of industries. But things are coming around slowly like we have beautiful plus size models now. This is something that society as a whole needs to combat. If we as people would stand up to this then the money driven industry would have to listen or face profit losses. But society on a grand scale is brainwashed and it really would require generations to change. But I will do the best I can in my own family to broaden the the boarders of beauty and I can only ask you to do the same.

I've been seeing a number of advertisements with pictures of thin models that have obviously been manipulated to make them look "plus-sized."

How stupid do they think that we are?

Flappycat · Jan 6, 2006

michel said:
With the emancipation of women, and the change of roles in society, have beauty contests disappeared (or are they entered into far less often than they used to be) ?

Are they debasing for women ?

The long-antiquated view that women are but empty-headed sex objects takes a great deal of damage from being used as vulgar entertainment, and the more polished contests, those which portray women as intelligent and talented individuals, should only be taken offense at by people who take displeasure in the notion of a woman being appreciated for their intelligence and their talents.

angellous_evangellous · Jan 6, 2006

Flappycat said:
The long-antiquated view that women are but empty-headed sex objects takes a great deal of damage from being used as vulgar entertainment, and the more polished contests, those which portray women as intelligent and talented individuals, should only be taken offense at by people who take displeasure in the notion of a woman being appreciated for their intelligence and their talents.

This can only be accomplished if there is no bikini (or "swimwear") contest.

Flappycat · Jan 6, 2006

angellous_evangellous said:
This can only be accomplished if there is no bikini contest.

I beg to differ. Sexually outgoing women became socially acceptable alongside working women. If you'd like to return to the days in which it was considered crude for women to show sexual initiative, purchase yourself a plane ticket to someplace in the Middle East. I expect you'd like it.

angellous_evangellous · Jan 6, 2006

Flappycat said:
I beg to differ. Sexually outgoing women became socially acceptable alongside working women. If you'd like to return to the days in which it was considered crude for women to show sexual initiative, purchase yourself a plane ticket to someplace in the Middle East. I expect you'd like it.

Let's remember the context of the beauty pagent. Will overwieght women (which has nothing to do with being sexually outgoing) be able to compete and succeed if people don't think that it is sexy? I challenge you to find an overwieght Miss Universe or Miss America. Also, judging the intellect and character of a person in a beauty contest format is doomed to be subjective and shallow, and therefore hardly representative of what women deserve.

I'd rather celebrate women by allowing full access to universities and jobs in every field. Women are still under-represented in many areas. Women of all shapes and sizes and sexual natures should be represented in the media as role models for people who have a variety of hopes, dreams, body shapes, and talents.

The beauty pagent format is a traditionally close minded formula designed to produce cookie-cutter idiots.

Flappycat · Jan 6, 2006

angellous_evangellous said:
Let's remember the context of the beauty pagent. Will overwieght women (which has nothing to do with being sexually outgoing) be able to compete and succeed if people don't think that it is sexy?

No. They're generally unattractive. Modern standards of feminine beauty are not terribly different from modern standards of beauty in a man. Athletic and toned bodies actually being attractive is a fairly new concept, really.

I challenge you to find an overwieght Miss Universe or Miss America. Also, judging the intellect and character of a person in a beauty contest format is doomed to be subjective and shallow, and therefore hardly representative of what women deserve.

Oh, pish posh. Women take as much pleasure as any male in being considered sexually attractive.

I'd rather celebrate women by allowing full access to universities and jobs in every field. Women are still under-represented in many areas. Women of all shapes and sizes and sexual natures should be represented in the media as role models for people who have a variety of hopes, dreams, body shapes, and talents.

It's their job to represent themselves, and they can represent themselves as they wish. Besides, giving a woman a scholarship for winning a pageant isn't much different from giving sports scholarships to the boys. I don't disagree entirely with sports scholarships, either; I see nothing wrong with men being appreciated for their athletic ability.

The beauty pagent format is a traditionally close minded formula designed to produce cookie-cutter idiots.

I'm sure that the ladies on the forum must appreciate your assumption that feminine beauty and intelligence must be mutually exclusive. This notion should be tossed out alongside the notion that men who succeed in sports must be nothing but dumb jocks. My ceramics instructor, the other year, swore left and right that boys who have a background in team sports tend to have a high creative potential, and I've known many young men whose involvement in team sports certainly didn't prevent them from being quite intelligent. I'm sure that you'd find the same of beauty queens if you actually got to know a few of them.

Snowbear · Jan 6, 2006

Flappycat said:
Athletic and toned bodies actually being attractive is a fairly new concept, really.

So's television. I doubt it's coincidence.

Flappycat said:
Oh, pish posh. Women take as much pleasure as any male in being considered sexually attractive.

We take just as much displeasure as any make in being considered sexually unattractive because we don't look like the models in the beauty contests.... often because we're a couple years older and/or have a few more curves.

Flappycat said:
It's their job to represent themselves, and they can represent themselves as they wish. Besides, giving a woman a scholarship for winning a pageant isn't much different from giving sports scholarships to the boys. I don't disagree entirely with sports scholarships, either; I see nothing wrong with men being appreciated for their athletic ability.

I've learned by experience that as a woman, I had to "represent" myself as capable as the most competant man at my job where the men who were completely inept at the same job were given a free ticket.
As for the scholarships, most women are eliminated from even competing for these "scholarships" because they do not meet the "idealistic" standards based purely on appearance. At least those getting athletic scholarships have to be good at something other than their appearance.

Flappycat said:
I'm sure that the ladies on the forum must appreciate your assumption that feminine beauty and intelligence must be mutually exclusive.

As a woman on the forum, I'm not getting the impression at all that she's assuming brains and beauty are mutually exclusive, only that those pagents of which we are speaking look only at appearance and have absolutely nothing to do with intelligence.

Flappycat · Jan 7, 2006

StewpidLoser said:
So's television. I doubt it's coincidence.

It is, actually.

We take just as much displeasure as any make in being considered sexually unattractive because we don't look like the models in the beauty contests.... often because we're a couple years older and/or have a few more curves.

Oh, you should see what the men are expected to put themselves through. Oddly enough, though, they mostly seem to enjoy it.

I've learned by experience that as a woman, I had to "represent" myself as capable as the most competant man at my job where the men who were completely inept at the same job were given a free ticket.

The unequal pay stink is a load of malarkey if I've ever heard it. There's no logical reason for a male employer to pay a woman less than a man for doing the same job, and they don't, save for the remaining one or two percent we're still trying to stamp out. Women just end up in lower paying fields, make different lifestyle choices, and may choose to work part-time if they work at all. If you really want women to show up in the figures as having the same pay as men, start defending dads who choose to be homemakers. If a woman tells a man to stay at home while she goes out to make a living, he won't mind in the least. Men hate feeling like they're being productive, and they go out of their way to avoid it. The modern workplace requiring less physical labor in this day and age, it's more practical for a man to do all that bending and stooping, anyway. The only problem is a society that isn't particularly accepting of men who make this lifestyle choice.

As for the scholarships, most women are eliminated from even competing for these "scholarships" because they do not meet the "idealistic" standards based purely on appearance. At least those getting athletic scholarships have to be good at something other than their appearance.

I've actually seen a few documentaries about the sorts of things body builders do to win in those "male beauty contests," and some of it actually threw me for a loop. I wouldn't expect a beauty queen's job to be much easier.

As a woman on the forum, I'm not getting the impression at all that she's assuming brains and beauty are mutually exclusive, only that those pagents of which we are speaking look only at appearance and have absolutely nothing to do with intelligence.

Well, some really do try. After all, they are beauty pageants, not brainwave-measuring contests, so it's pretty natural that the women would be judged partially or even mostly upon how they look on stage. I do, however, think that it's unjust to color the lot of them as intellectual midgets based entirely on the fact that they're being judged for their looks.

Snowbear · Jan 7, 2006

Flappycat said:
The unequal pay stink is a load of malarkey ... blah blah blah... QUOTE]
I didn't say anything about unequal pay or lifestyle choice. I'm talking about expectations for the exact same job for the exact same pay.... but the women have to prove they can do the same job BETTER than the men to even be accepted as minimally competant.

Flappycat said:

I've actually seen a few documentaries about the sorts of things body builders do to win in those "male beauty contests," and some of it actually threw me for a loop. I wouldn't expect a beauty queen's job to be much easier.

Click to expand...

I know both men and women who enter body building contests using nutrition and workout programs to achieve the look they're going for. I understand that there are some folks who think steroid and surgical "enhancements" are desireable, but it mostly seems to be a muscle size thing and IMO has absolutely nothing to do with "beauty"

flappycat said:

After all, they are beauty pageants, not brainwave-measuring contests, so it's pretty natural that the women would be judged partially or even mostly upon how they look on stage.

Click to expand...

By George I think he gets it!!

flappycat said:

I do, however, think that it's unjust to color the lot of them as intellectual midgets based entirely on the fact that they're being judged for their looks.

Click to expand...

Once again, I don't see her doing that. You however, are....

Beauty Contests - A thing of the past ?

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