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Quantum physics can account for miracles

Surya Deva

Well-Known Member
I've already outlined why all of your articles don't imply that. The examples they are using are imaginably smaller than a live human. It's sort of like trying to build a space elevator out of twine.

Nope, actually some did:

Well, actually, something bigger can transport through Quantum Tunneling. Since Quantum Tunneling is based on probabilities, then the only thing preventing larger objects from tunneling from one place in the Universe to another is the very small probability that all the subatomic particles making up that object will to decide tunnel simultaneously to the same location, all at once. In other words, since I'm made entirely of subatomic particles, all of which are subject to the rules of quantum mechanics, there is a non-zero probability that I will spontaneously disappear and reappear somewhere else in the Universe. That probability, however, for all practical purposes, is zero. It would be like every single subatomic particle in my body getting lucky and winning the lottery all at the same time. It's possible, but it's just not very likely to happen.

So all we need to do is to figure out how to rig the quantum lottery.

The good news is that we are learning how to affect the outcomes of many quantum events. Amazingly, simply arranging things so that, for instance, a photon can be observed to take one path or another after passing through a splitter, we are able to affect the path the photon decides to take, or whether it decides to exhibit wave-like or particle-like properties. Other experiments have shown that we can similarly manipulate the outcome of tunneling events for many particles, particularly electrons. The ultimate goal, then, is to be able to command subatomic particles to tunnel at will. If we could do this, and if we could do this on a large enough scale, then we could command enough subatomic particles to transport objects, people, space ships, or even entire planets. All it takes is rigging the quantum lottery so that all the particles in the object we want to transport get lucky and win the lottery on a quantum level all at the same time.

So instead of killing yourself in a meat grinder only to have a copy of yourself assume your identity somewhere else, you would simply disappear and then reappear at a remote location. It doesn't get much better than that.​

Earl's Science Essay: How to Transport Matter Better Than They Do on TV, and Stuff
 

PolyHedral

Superabacus Mystic
Nope, actually some did:
Well, actually, something bigger can transport through Quantum Tunneling. Since Quantum Tunneling is based on probabilities, then the only thing preventing larger objects from tunneling from one place in the Universe to another is the very small probability that all the subatomic particles making up that object will to decide tunnel simultaneously to the same location, all at once. In other words, since I'm made entirely of subatomic particles, all of which are subject to the rules of quantum mechanics, there is a non-zero probability that I will spontaneously disappear and reappear somewhere else in the Universe. That probability, however, for all practical purposes, is zero. It would be like every single subatomic particle in my body getting lucky and winning the lottery all at the same time. It's possible, but it's just not very likely to happen.

So all we need to do is to figure out how to rig the quantum lottery.

The good news is that we are learning how to affect the outcomes of many quantum events. Amazingly, simply arranging things so that, for instance, a photon can be observed to take one path or another after passing through a splitter, we are able to affect the path the photon decides to take, or whether it decides to exhibit wave-like or particle-like properties. Other experiments have shown that we can similarly manipulate the outcome of tunneling events for many particles, particularly electrons. The ultimate goal, then, is to be able to command subatomic particles to tunnel at will. If we could do this, and if we could do this on a large enough scale, then we could command enough subatomic particles to transport objects, people, space ships, or even entire planets. All it takes is rigging the quantum lottery so that all the particles in the object we want to transport get lucky and win the lottery on a quantum level all at the same time.

So instead of killing yourself in a meat grinder only to have a copy of yourself assume your identity somewhere else, you would simply disappear and then reappear at a remote location. It doesn't get much better than that.​
Earl's Science Essay: How to Transport Matter Better Than They Do on TV, and Stuff
You'll notice that, quite importantly, the author doesn't even allude to how you would do it. Like I said, it's like building a space elevator out of twine - you "only" need to make it orders of magnitude stronger, without increasing its mass significantly.

As far as we can tell, both twine space elevators and quantum-rigging are completely impossible on the scales required.
 

Surya Deva

Well-Known Member
You'll notice that, quite importantly, the author doesn't even allude to how you would do it. Like I said, it's like building a space elevator out of twine - you "only" need to make it orders of magnitude stronger, without increasing its mass significantly.

As far as we can tell, both twine space elevators and quantum-rigging are completely impossible on the scales required.

Its not really a theoretical problem, it's a technological problem. We would have been asking ourselves the same question many decades ago how could we develop a computer that could do 16 quadtrillion calcuations a second with our vacuum tube computers ;-)

Well find a way, like I said we have already succeeded in doing with micro-meter objects, and that is a quantum leap(excuse the pun) over what we could do just a few years ago. Just as computing evolved exponentially quantum technology will evolve exponentially too - just you watch :p
 

PolyHedral

Superabacus Mystic
Reminds me that the human body scaled up would collapse under its own weight. Different methods for different scales
Yet that very basic principle of engineering seems to elude Surya.
Its not really a theoretical problem, it's a technological problem. We would have been asking ourselves the same question many decades ago how could we develop a computer that could do 16 quadtrillion calcuations a second with our vacuum tube computers ;-)
You can't do 16 quadrillion calculations a second with vacuum tubes, though. Before you take this metaphor any further, please be aware that CPU development has essentially stopped getting faster - and it is currently ~1 million times too slow for your metaphor to work. I don't think that's ever going to be made up.
 

Surya Deva

Well-Known Member
You can't do 16 quadrillion calculations a second with vacuum tubes, though. Before you take this metaphor any further, please be aware that CPU development has essentially stopped getting faster - and it is currently ~1 million times too slow for your metaphor to work. I don't think that's ever going to be made up.

Exactly, you cannot do it with vacuum tubes. However, you can do it with transistors and a series of advanced micoprocessors. So what you make think that we are not going to develop better technologies to manipulate quantum events?

Quantum computing is definitely the future.

I mean come on doubting thomases are always proven wrong. One time they said heavier than air travel is impossible, citing maths and figures to explain why not ;-) Then they said faster than sound travel is not possible, citing maths and figures to explain why not, now they are saying faster than light travel is not possible lol

You watch, they will be proven wrong ;) Actual scientists out there are working tirelessly on building real quantum computers and achieving real quantum telelportation, and they are making exponential progress every year. If you live long enough(wishing you a long and healthy life) you will be using a quantum computer in your life time :D
 

PolyHedral

Superabacus Mystic


Quantum computing is easy compared to quantum teleportation of macroscopic objects. Because you manipulate QT by manipulating the wavelength of the object, and macroscopic objects don't have measurable wavelengths.

(Also, it's completely true that faster than light travel through space isn't possible.)
 

Photonic

Ad astra!
Exactly, you cannot do it with vacuum tubes. However, you can do it with transistors and a series of advanced micoprocessors. So what you make think that we are not going to develop better technologies to manipulate quantum events?

Quantum computing is definitely the future.

I mean come on doubting thomases are always proven wrong. One time they said heavier than air travel is impossible, citing maths and figures to explain why not ;-) Then they said faster than sound travel is not possible, citing maths and figures to explain why not, now they are saying faster than light travel is not possible lol

You watch, they will be proven wrong ;) Actual scientists out there are working tirelessly on building real quantum computers and achieving real quantum telelportation, and they are making exponential progress every year. If you live long enough(wishing you a long and healthy life) you will be using a quantum computer in your life time :D

What's your point?
 

Surya Deva

Well-Known Member


Quantum computing is easy compared to quantum teleportation of macroscopic objects. Because you manipulate QT by manipulating the wavelength of the object, and macroscopic objects don't have measurable wavelengths.

(Also, it's completely true that faster than light travel through space isn't possible.)

I know what quantum teleportation is ;)
Quantum tunneling is real teleportation

Faster than light travel through space is impossible - but not impossible through quantum space.

The space that you see yonder in the sky is not the same thing as space. Come on even the Indian philosophers knew that one ;)
 

PolyHedral

Superabacus Mystic
I know what quantum teleportation is ;)
Quantum tunneling is real teleportation

Faster than light travel through space is impossible - but not impossible through quantum space.

The space that you see yonder in the sky is not the same thing as space. Come on even the Indian philosophers knew that one ;)
There's no such thing as quantum space. Every physics undergrad knows that one.

Notice the exact wording: faster tan light travel through space is impossible. :D

Also, warp drives are time machines. I think that causes even more philosophical problems than it solves.
 

Photonic

Ad astra!
There's no such thing as quantum space. Every physics undergrad knows that one.


Notice the exact wording: faster tan light travel through space is impossible. :D

Also, warp drives are time machines. I think that causes even more philosophical problems than it solves.

Technicality asides, that is correct. Normal space-time does not allow. Hence why I said technically.

Also, you are dead wrong Poly, as an astrophysics undergrad, I must correct you.

Quantum Space
 

PolyHedral

Superabacus Mystic
A connected Lorentz-invariant Reimann 4-manifold with a psuedo-metric. (Since although it is symmetric, it is not uniformly positive.)

...You did ask. :p
 

Photonic

Ad astra!
A connected Lorentz-invariant Reimann 4-manifold with a psuedo-metric. (Since although it is symmetric, it is not uniformly positive.)

...You did ask. :p

In other words 4-dimensional space that has a sum zero with deviation. :D

Tried to make it simpler...probably did a bad job.

Or, if you take Super-string theory into account, which I usually don't...11 dimensions, with calabi-yau manifolds making up most of them.
 
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Surya Deva

Well-Known Member
Bah humbug, there is no such thing as dimensions and levels. It's all pure quantum space.

GR says 4
String theory says 11, or even hundreds :D

There cannot be two spaces. There has to be one ultimate space in which the entire universe is situated.

That space so far is proven to the quantum. All of physical reality begins at the quantum and dissolves into the quantum.

What is more fundamental than the quantum? ;)
 

idav

Being
Premium Member
That space so far is proven to the quantum. All of physical reality begins at the quantum and dissolves into the quantum.

What is more fundamental than the quantum? ;)

At the basic level everything is quantum, this much is true, but for us beings made of matter we are restricted to the laws of classical physics and can't just go quantum. This is described as the macro level. If we are 90% space, our hands should be able to go through each other, they don't because of classical physics.
 

PolyHedral

Superabacus Mystic
Bah humbug, there is no such thing as dimensions and levels. It's all pure quantum space.

GR says 4
String theory says 11, or even hundreds :D

There cannot be two spaces. There has to be one ultimate space in which the entire universe is situated.
Nobody claimed that string theory and GR are correct simultaneously. GR has 4, accepted QM has 4, some hypothetical upgrades to QM have more. Currently, the answer is 4, to the best of our knowledge. Its accuracy will be improved when further data is available.

Even if string hypothesis is right, the answer it provides for "what is the quantum situated in" will be quite similar to the one above. Sorry if you don't like maths - it turns out that it rules the universe.

What is more fundamental than the quantum? ;)
As far as anyone can determine, nothing.

At the basic level everything is quantum, this much is true, but for us beings made of matter we are restricted to the laws of classical physics and can't just go quantum. This is described as the macro level. If we are 90% space, our hands should be able to go through each other, they don't because of classical physics.
They don't because of quantum physics, actually. (Since electrostatic forces and the Pauli exclusion principle are what keep atoms together.) Classical physics is merely an approximation of quantum that's useful in some circumstances.
 
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