A young earth

Psalm · Jan 5, 2006

Abram said:
To me (which my own useless opinion) I think God knew this would become an issue. So he put the answer in the 10 commandments. 6 days you work the 7th you rest, for the Lord made the earth in 6 days and rested on the 7th. (Paraphrased). If youre going to believe in an all powerful God why doubt his power and say it would take longer.

Everyone here has their own opinion, as do I, and it would be foolish of me to believe I could change's everyone's to fall in line with mine, nor would I want to. It would be a pretty boring world if everyone thought the same way. Now about the 6 days, once again I must say that I disagree. This book was written by man, to be obeyed by man, and the time spans and structured way of living was created to fall with man's limitations as a human.

Here's another question I pose(and believe me when I say I am not being argumentative, just seeking knowledge or at least a different point of view.) In the bible it suggests the presence of dinosaurs and we all know they roamed well before 6000 years, now how can that be possible? It shows God was present then, but man has restricted his time frame to 6000 years not, say...6 billion.(if you wish to look it up go to Job 40:15-24.

Jayhawker Soule · Jan 5, 2006

Psalm said:
In the bible it suggests the presence of dinosaurs ... if you wish to look it up go to Job 40:15-24.

I see no dinosaur there.

Psalm · Jan 5, 2006

what do you see?

Jayhawker Soule · Jan 5, 2006

Psalm said:
what do you see?

I see a reference to the "Behemoth". Why would you interpret it as a dinosaur?

Psalm · Jan 5, 2006

Feeds on grass, carries his tail like a cedar, thighs are like cables, his frame like iron rods. Of all wild animals, he makes sport. Under the lotus tree he lies, in covets of the reedy swamp. If the river grows violent , he is not disturbed, and he is tranquil though the torrent surges about his mouth. Now, what does that sound like to you? If it's not a dinosaur, then you tell me your interpretation.

angellous_evangellous · Jan 5, 2006

Psalm said:
Feeds on grass, carries his tail like a cedar, thighs are like cables, his frame like iron rods. Of all wild animals, he makes sport. Under the lotus tree he lies, in covets of the reedy swamp. If the river grows violent , he is not disturbed, and he is tranquil though the torrent surges about his mouth. Now, what does that sound like to you? If it's not a dinosaur, then you tell me your interpretation.

Since dino's and humans didn't exist at the same time, that perty much excludes a dino from the picture. Perhaps it is a hippo?

Damn wikipedia rocks (behemoth, italics mine):

"In the book of Job, both Behemoth and Leviathan are listed alongside a number of other animals that are clearly mundane, such as goats, eagles, and hawks, leading many Christian scholars to surmise that Behemoth and Leviathan may also be mundane creatures. Suggestions as to its identity include the water buffalo and the elephant, but the most common suggestion is the hippopotamus. Some readers also see a hippopotamus also in Isaiah 30:6 (bahamot negeb "beasts of the south").

A rather less scientific proposal is that the Behemoth is a dinosaur. The Apatosaurus is usually proposed since Behemoth was said to have a tail "like a cedar". This viewpoint is usually advanced by young-earth creationists who believe that mankind and dinosaurs co-existed less than 10,000 years ago, although other proponents of this position surmise that, since God is the Speaker, He would be well aware of any dinosaur despite their extinction. One might find that the weakness of this view is that the Bible does not say that Behemoth's tail is as long as a cedar - but it merely says that Behemoth's tail moves like a cedar."

Mike182 · Jan 5, 2006

Psalm said:
Feeds on grass, carries his tail like a cedar, thighs are like cables, his frame like iron rods. Of all wild animals, he makes sport. Under the lotus tree he lies, in covets of the reedy swamp. If the river grows violent , he is not disturbed, and he is tranquil though the torrent surges about his mouth. Now, what does that sound like to you? If it's not a dinosaur, then you tell me your interpretation.

my bible says behemoth

"look at the behemoth which i made just as i made you. it eats grass like the ox. look at the strength it has in its body; the muscles of its stomach are powerful."

it goes on with some more stuff about the behemoth, but its deffinatley not about dinosaurs

Psalm · Jan 5, 2006

angellous_evangellous said:
A hippo perhaps.

A hippo? Hmmm. At what point did his cedar like tail shrink to the width of a twig?

angellous_evangellous · Jan 5, 2006

Psalm said:
A hippo? Hmmm. At what point did his cedar like tail shrink to the width of a twig?

As the author in wikipedia noted:

"One might find that the weakness of this view is that the Bible does not say that Behemoth's tail is as long as a cedar - but it merely says that Behemoth's tail moves like a cedar."

Psalm · Jan 5, 2006

Mike182 said:
my bible says behemoth

"look at the behemoth which i made just as i made you. it eats grass like the ox. look at the strength it has in its body; the muscles of its stomach are powerful."

it goes on with some more stuff about the behemoth, but its deffinatley not about dinosaurs

Keep reading. And why not write down what it says entirely, instead of just parts and we'll go from there. Once again, I'm not being combative, just trying to get someone to counter this opinion of mine. Sorry if it sounds like I am.

Psalm · Jan 5, 2006

angellous_evangellous said:
As the author in wikipedia noted:

"One might find that the weakness of this view is that the Bible does not say that Behemoth's tail is as long as a cedar - but it merely says that Behemoth's tail moves like a cedar."

Nice point. See, I interpret it differently. When speaking of this"Behemoth", as it says in the Bible, He came at the beginning of God's ways, and was made the taskmaster of his fellows. For the produce of the mountains is brought to him, and all wild animals he makes sport. I just don't see the hippo being described here.

Mike182 · Jan 5, 2006

Psalm said:
Keep reading. And why not write down what it says entirely, instead of just parts and we'll go from there. Once again, I'm not being combative, just trying to get someone to counter this opinion of mine. Sorry if it sounds like I am.

i don't see a need to, but i will do anyway

"look at the behemoth which i made just as i made you.
It eats grass like the ox.
look at the strength it has in its body;
the muscles of its stomach are powerful.
Its tail moves like a credar tree;
the muscles of its thighs are woven together.
Its bones are like tubes of bronze;
its legs like bars of iron.
It is one of the first of god's works,
but its maker can destroy it.
the hill, where the wild animals play
provide food for it.
It lies under the lotus plant,
hidden by the tall grass in the swamp.
the lotus plants hide inits shadow;
the poplar trees by the stream surround it.
If the river floods, it will not be affraid;
it is safe even if the jordon rushes to its mouth.
Can anyone blind its eye and capture it?
can anyone put hooks in its nose?"

that is the whole part of the verse - if you exclude the bit that exclusively says it is a behemoth, then yes it could be a dinosaur

angellous_evangellous · Jan 5, 2006

Mike182 said:
that is the whole part of the verse - if you exclude the bit that exclusively says it is a behemoth, then yes it could be a dinosaur

:biglaugh:

Psalm · Jan 5, 2006

Mike182 said:
i don't see a need to, but i will do anyway

"look at the behemoth which i made just as i made you.
It eats grass like the ox.
look at the strength it has in its body;
the muscles of its stomach are powerful.
Its tail moves like a credar tree;
the muscles of its thighs are woven together.
Its bones are like tubes of bronze;
its legs like bars of iron.
It is one of the first of god's works,
but its maker can destroy it.
the hill, where the wild animals play
provide food for it.
It lies under the lotus plant,
hidden by the tall grass in the swamp.
the lotus plants hide inits shadow;
the poplar trees by the stream surround it.
If the river floods, it will not be affraid;
it is safe even if the jordon rushes to its mouth.
Can anyone blind its eye and capture it?
can anyone put hooks in its nose?"

that is the whole part of the verse - if you exclude the bit that exclusively says it is a behemoth, then yes it could be a dinosaur

Thank you. And as you can see, I find that passage of the Bible, among others, very interesting. Hippo or Brontosaurus? Who can say? I personally believe the world to be older than 6000 years...much, much older, but that doesn't mean I don't think God wasn't present by thinking that way. Just my opinion.

Jayhawker Soule · Jan 5, 2006

Psalm said:
Keep reading. And why not write down what it says entirely, instead of just parts and we'll go from there. Once again, I'm not being combative, just trying to get someone to counter this opinion of mine. Sorry if it sounds like I am.

No, you do not sound at all combative. Forgive me if I do not go to the trouble of selecting, cutting, and pasting Job.

The obvious point is that there is nothing in the text that necessitates interpreting the Behemoth as a dinosaur. It was your choice. My guess is that you have little or no expertise in the fields of zoology or paleontology, and yet you made made this choice in the face of an overwhelming consensus on the part of science. This seems presumptuous in the extreme, and a perfect example of YEC 'eisegesis'. I'm just trying to understand the mindset that allows someone to say, in effect:

I don't care how little I know about the relevant fields, I choose to hold an opinion counterposed to that of science.

Mike182 · Jan 5, 2006

Psalm said:
Thank you. And as you can see, I find that passage of the Bible, among others, very interesting. Hippo or Brontosaurus? Who can say? I personally believe the world to be older than 6000 years...much, much older, but that doesn't mean I don't think God wasn't present by thinking that way. Just my opinion.

im sorry, this thread already has my head spinning - what are you trying to argue?

Jayhawker Soule · Jan 5, 2006

Psalm said:
Thank you. And as you can see, I find that passage of the Bible, among others, very interesting. Hippo or Brontosaurus? Who can say?

And why should we allow ourselves to be informed by science when we can wallow in an intellectual mush of proclaimed coequal 'possibilities'?

YmirGF · Jan 5, 2006

Jayhawker Soule said:
I don't care how little I know about the relevant fields, I choose to hold an opinion counterposed to that of science.

Very true. I find it a bit distressing when folks prefer to believe the drivel without researching those beliefs. What is getting me about these debates is how logical thought is slowly being eroded. After all, if one has sufficient faith, it does not matter much what science says.

I read one comment last night on another website that said essentially, "When science goes against religion. Science is wrong." There is not much one can say to that kind of mentality. The harder one chips away at them, the more firmly they believe. On the other hand thinking folks cannot ignore our less than enlightened brothers and sisters, lest then lead us all into another intellectual Dark Age.

Psalm · Jan 5, 2006

Jayhawker Soule said:
And why should we allow ourselves to be informed by science when we can wallow in an intellectual mush of proclaimed coequal 'possibilities'?

Science hasn't proved to me there isn't a God. Nor has it proved there is. You are taking science and applying to the way YOU were taught to believe by man. You are using it to disparage the beliefs that were instilled in you. My belief in God does not stem from any book that's been written or any temple that's been built. I only use passages from the bible since it seems to be the platform on which the argument is based. This whole thread started with the theory of Gensis and I've tried to stay within the cinfines of it.

angellous_evangellous · Jan 5, 2006

YmirGF said:
Very true. I find it a bit distressing when folks prefer to believe the drivel without researching those beliefs. What is getting me about these debates is how logical thought is slowly being eroded. After all, if one has sufficient faith, it does not matter much what science says.

I read one comment last night on another website that said essentially, "When science goes against religion. Science is wrong." There is not much one can say to that kind of mentality. The harder one chips away at them, the more firmly they believe. On the other hand thinking folks cannot ignore our less than enlightened brothers and sisters, lest then lead us all into another intellectual Dark Age.[/QUOTE]

For pockets of Christian fundamentalists, it's like the Enlightenment never happened.

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