Converting believers.

john63 said:

I want to tell people about what Jesus did for them, but I would never tell anyone they're going to hell or that they are not saved. Only they and God know that. People who tell others they're going to hell need to take their own inventory. I never go out trying to proselytize, but if someone asks me about my faith, I'm tickled to tell them about salvation through Christ.

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Ah, now you're talking! Yes, I agree, I would never bring the subject of Religion up on purpose. If the conversation went onto religion, and I was asked I would explain.

Though anyone who asks me about my faith would soon regret doing so!:biglaugh:

I'm sure I'd be horrible at converting people if I tried. Thank God I don't.... But it has been my experience to listen and observe that most conversions in other countries have not been because they understand the complexities of legalistic dogma. But rather simple things like caring for the poor, showing love, unselfish acts, etc.

~Victor

I dont like the idea of conversion, but at times (like at the Christian school i go to) I feel like getting into arguments for the sake of attempting to open their minds a little. It's not working...

I agree with you, Cola Daddy, I don't like people trying to convert me and I also find it offensive for people to think they have the only true way to God. I also love to talk about God, but with people who have an open mind and heart.

michel said:

Hmmm nice brother........

If I were in your shoes, I would be tempted to reply "That doesn't sound like a very Christian attitude"...but maybe you just can't say those sorts of things where you live.

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Just a couple of weeks ago, I was back at my parents house for Christmas. My brother made the same statement to me, while we were discussing theology. I beleive his exact words were "Brian, if I am wrong about all this religious stuff, then when I die, nothing happens, if you are wrong in your beliefs, you go to Hell".

Which is a much nicer way of putting it than my parents do. They just flat out tell me I am going to Hell, no ifs ands or buts about it. My brother was sad about me going to Hell, but my parents are Baptists and are thrilled to death (my personal opinion) that people who don't believe as they do will be roasting forever in a lake of fire.

And if asked, any and all of these folks would swear to you that they love me, but that they love God much more, and none of them would be lying in telling you that. But then I am not all that loveable, so we shouldn't judge them too harshly.

I tell you this, Michel, to illustrate the point that this attitude is not rare.

B.

MdmSzdWhtGuy said:

Just a couple of weeks ago, I was back at my parents house for Christmas. My brother made the same statement to me, while we were discussing theology. I beleive his exact words were "Brian, if I am wrong about all this religious stuff, then when I die, nothing happens, if you are wrong in your beliefs, you go to Hell".

Which is a much nicer way of putting it than my parents do. They just flat out tell me I am going to Hell, no ifs ands or buts about it. My brother was sad about me going to Hell, but my parents are Baptists and are thrilled to death (my personal opinion) that people who don't believe as they do will be roasting forever in a lake of fire.

And if asked, any and all of these folks would swear to you that they love me, but that they love God much more, and none of them would be lying in telling you that. But then I am not all that loveable, so we shouldn't judge them too harshly.

I tell you this, Michel, to illustrate the point that this attitude is not rare.

B.

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Thats very sad.
I am sure you love your famiy very much and it must hurt somewhat to hear them talk this way. Perhaps you can at least take some solice in the fact that i'm sure their intent is pure(if somewhat misguided in my humble opinion).

Searcher,

Thanks for the sentiment, but I assure you, I don't want, or need anyone feeling sorry for me. I am long past the point where what my family thinks of me matters. Everyone hates a freethinker, it is just part of the gig.

If I cared what everyone thought of me, I would simply have chucked thinking for myself, reasoning and logic, and went along with the church I was brought up in. I really wish I could do that, as my life would be much simpler, but that is not the path I travel.

Please don't think me rude by this reply. I just don't want anyone thinking I posted the above fishing for sympathy, because this was certainly not the case.

B.

MdmSzdWhtGuy said:

Searcher,

Thanks for the sentiment, but I assure you, I don't want, or need anyone feeling sorry for me. I am long past the point where what my family thinks of me matters. Everyone hates a freethinker, it is just part of the gig.

If I cared what everyone thought of me, I would simply have chucked thinking for myself, reasoning and logic, and went along with the church I was brought up in. I really wish I could do that, as my life would be much simpler, but that is not the path I travel.

Please don't think me rude by this reply. I just don't want anyone thinking I posted the above fishing for sympathy, because this was certainly not the case.

B.

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Noted.

People need a lot of faith if they are going to put themselves in the position of converting me. If you try to convert me, I will test your faith with everything I've got. Otherwise the conversation will be rather boring. "Sermons make me sleepy".

Darkdale said:

People need a lot of faith if they are going to put themselves in the position of converting me. If you try to convert me, I will test your faith with everything I've got. Otherwise the conversation will be rather boring. "Sermons make me sleepy".

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Your one of the fun ones.....

~Victor

Victor said:

Your one of the fun ones.....

~Victor

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There really isn't anything more enjoyable than watching someone stumble all over themselves to convince me of something, when I know more about their beliefs than they do, when I know more of their scripture than they do and when I already know their arguments backwards and forwards. Of course, the fun is the semantics. If I get the feeling that they don't understand what they are saying, I'll mess with their semantics and they usually get very confused and disappointed. But the final joy is watching the person walk away as self-righteous and indignant as they arrived. I can just tell they won't even give me a second thought, and such is their masquerade, their empty cause. And then, I am always reminded why I'm not a Christian. I don't want to end up like them.

But, at least there is some intellectual honesty. The Bible says to go spread the word and it is encouraging that some people still actually believe in the Bible, instead of treating It with a kind of mild neglect.

Darkdale said:

There really isn't anything more enjoyable than watching someone stumble all over themselves to convince me of something, when I know more about their beliefs than they do, when I know more of their scripture than they do and when I already know their arguments backwards and forwards. Of course, the fun is the semantics. If I get the feeling that they don't understand what they are saying, I'll mess with their semantics and they usually get very confused and disappointed. But the final joy is watching the person walk away as self-righteous and indignant as they arrived. I can just tell they won't even give me a second thought, and such is their masquerade, their empty cause. And then, I am always reminded why I'm not a Christian. I don't want to end up like them.

But, at least there is some intellectual honesty. The Bible says to go spread the word and it is encouraging that some people still actually believe in the Bible, instead of treating It with a kind of mild neglect.

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What else did you expect Darkdale? I'm sure your aware that few Christians are theologians or apologists. Perhaps they are more of a fit for you intellectual challenges? Between me and you for example I can already imagine where we would get stuck. Time will tell.

~Victor

Victor said:

What else did you expect Darkdale? I'm sure your aware that few Christians are theologians or apologists. Perhaps they are more of a fit for you intellectual challenges? Between me and you for example I can already imagine where we would get stuck. Time will tell.

~Victor

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I like christian theologians and philosophers, they are easier to talk to and I usually walk away having learned something. But Christianity is filled with a worldview I don't want anything to do with. I prefer the old Germanic worldview, so in order to convert me, you'd have to change my mind on hundreds of different issues and assumptions about the nature of divinity, the nature of man and the nature of the relationship between the two. But I don't like Christianity and I just can't imagine someone getting me to like it.

jgallandt said:

In Matthew, Christ sent his apostles out to tell the world of him. But why is it some religious believe that it is their duty to try and convert Christians to their way of thinking? I've had people knock on my door and tell me if I don't believe in what they believe, I'm going to hell. I believe what Christ meant was going to places where they do not know of Christ,

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I'll try to field this question, Jeff. But first I need to ask you something. You've decided to become a Roman Catholic (or return to Catholicism, as the case may be). Why? Why not become a Pentacostal, or a Lutheran or a Mormon ? Give me your answer, and then I'll explain why I think some Christians try to convert other Christians to their denomination.

It's what's best for me. It is what God has directed me to. Is it the one true religion? No. There is no one true religion. If Mormon is best for you, I will never in a million years tell you your wrong. God has taught me to be humble, not arrogant. I will never claim my religion is better then someone else It's like a shirt. One shirt might fit one, but not the other.

SoyLeche said:

I don't go around telling people that they are going to Hell if they don't become Mormons, and I don't even believe that
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I do believe that my church is the 1 true church on the Earth.
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but I did believe that they needed to hear my message. They could accept it or reject it if they wanted to, but I shared it with anyone that I could.

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I guess I don't get it?
If you don't believe I'm going to hell even though I don't believe as you do, why is it so important that I hear your message? Why is it so important that your church is the "only true church" if Jesus will still grant me forgiveness and salvation even if I believe in Him without the covenants and rituals of your "only true church on Earth?"

jgallandt said:

It's what's best for me. It is what God has directed me to. Is it the one true religion? No. There is no one true religion. If Mormon is best for you, I will never in a million years tell you your wrong. God has taught me to be humble, not arrogant. I will never claim my religion is better then someone else It's like a shirt. One shirt might fit one, but not the other.

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I didn't mean to imply that you'd be critical of my choice to be a Mormon, because you never have. But I believe it is the position of the Catholic Church that it alone holds the authority passed by Christ to Peter and then, according to them, through all Popes who have led the Church since then. I actually admire them for their conviction. As to whether there is "one true religion," I can't say for sure. I believe there is, but time may prove me wrong. One thing I do know, however, is that there could not possibly be two or more "true religions." I'm not saying that there is not truth in all religions, but if ten Christian denominations are each teaching different things about the nature of God, the need for and method of baptism, salvation by faith alone vs salvation by faith and works combined, etc. they couldn't all be teaching the correct doctrines in every one of these areas. I'm not saying that God's going to condemn everyone who picks the "wrong" choice, either, because that would be contrary to everything I believe. On the other hand, I think He wants us to know the truth about Him and about what He expects of us. One need not go to a Church at all to be a good person and to live a life that is pleasing to God, but speaking strictly from the LDS perspective, we seek to convert other Christians because we feel that we have something of worth to offer them.

One of our Apostles wrote a book a few years back. It was called Our Search for Happiness: An Invitation to Understand the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. The next to the last paragraph of the book states:

"Please don't let this opportunity to receive personal revelation from God pass. Consider what I've written here. Weigh it carefully. Measure it against the things you believe -- and the things you want to believe. Hold fast to all that you know to be true and add to that the fulness of the restored gospel of Jesus Christ. Take into account what you've felt as you've read these words. Then put it all to the ultimate test: Ask God. Listen for His answer with your heart, then respond to what you feel."

Judging from what I've heard this man say over the years, I can't imagine him saying, "And if you don't get the same answer I have, to hell with you! You got the wrong answer, buddy!" I think that most Mormons who try to share their beliefs with other Christians do so out of a sincere conviction that they have something worth sharing. If people aren't interested, most of us respect that.

We believe ours is a message that helps bad people become good and good people become better. Is it really so offensive?

By sharing our beliefs with others we are in no way taking away anyone's free agency. We have the free agency to share the message and you have the free agency to do with it what you will. And we NEVER tell anyone they are going to hell. That's not for us to judge and if an LDS does say this I suspect it is rare. I've never told anyone they are going to hell, but plenty of Evangelicals have told me that I am.

StewpidLoser said:

I guess I don't get it?
If you don't believe I'm going to hell even though I don't believe as you do, why is it so important that I hear your message? Why is it so important that your church is the "only true church" if Jesus will still grant me forgiveness and salvation even if I believe in Him without the covenants and rituals of your "only true church on Earth?"

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There are differing degrees of glory in Heaven, according to LDS belief. While almost everyone who has ever lived will receive a portion of God's glory, we strive for Exaltation or Life Eternal in His presence. That's a loflier goal by far than settling for the avoidance of Hell. Also, with 30,000 different Christian denominations each teaching different doctrines, how many possibilities are there for "the only true church on earth"? Also, the fact that Church "A" may not be 100% accurate in all its teachings definitely doesn't mean that it's 100% false.

StewpidLoser said:

I guess I don't get it?
If you don't believe I'm going to hell even though I don't believe as you do, why is it so important that I hear your message? Why is it so important that your church is the "only true church" if Jesus will still grant me forgiveness and salvation even if I believe in Him without the covenants and rituals of your "only true church on Earth?"

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Because we don't just believe in salvation, but an exaltation that can come as well. Without the fullness of the gospel, there will be an end to an individual's progression.