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Jehovah's Witnesses and The New World Translation
- Thread starter Bangbang
- Start date
searcher63
Member
I am curious why you do not hold the same standard to "JESUS"? We do not know the exact ancient pronunciation of his name either, yet it accepted. Curious that there is so much emphasis against "JEHOVAH" I wonder why that is.Bangbang said:I use many different translations for Bible Study including the NWT. I know this will seeem confusing to you and others but I still use the NWT because it is very easy to read. However I have recently been using the KKing James Bible and NIV whic fall short of bening fully accurate too. However The People that translated the NIV at least recognise that the version falls short.
......as far as the name Jehova.............checkthis out.
[font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]A Simple Overview of The Divine Name
All of the material here is historical fact. I present it not as a religious piece but as simple information. Please note that Hebrew is spelled right to left, and is so written in this document.
[/font]
- The Absolute Name as originally given to Moses on Sinai (Exodus 3:14) is AHYH ASR AHYH: "I Will Be Who I Will Be."
- "I Am That I Am", while quite valuable, is ultimately a mistranslation. This is a Christian interpretation applied 1000 years after the fact.
- Saying "I Will Be" made people very nervous. So "I Will Be" (AHYH) was changed into "He Will Be": YHWH
This Name is known as the Tetragrammaton: "The 4 Letter Name." In English you most often see this Name as "Yahweh." The certain original pronunciation has been lost. Over 30 different pronunciations are known to the Kabbalists.
- The Tetragrammaton, spelled vertically, is the pictogram of a human being:
. This is a visual representation of what it symbolically means to be created in the image of God.
- Over the years this discomfort with the Divine Name continued. Soon, people would not pronounce YHWH at all. Whenever they saw YHWH in the Bible, they would either say "The Name" (Ha Shem) or "The Lord" (Adonai).
- Originally, Hebrew did not have vowels. Eventually the Hebrews felt it was wise to insert little dots (called vowel points) around the letters to remind the reader of the exact pronunciation.
- When they came to YHWH in the text, they added the vowel points for Adonai ("Lord") to remind the reader that the Divine Name was not to be pronounced.
- In the Middle Ages, around 1500, translators misunderstood that the vowel points were for "Adonai", not "Yahweh". Thus, they combined the letters of YHWH with the vowels of Adonai. The result was "Jehovah". This is, quite simply, a mistranslation. (NOTE: We are NOT saying that this is evil, or that those who use this name are sinners, nor that everyone in the Jehovah's Witnesses are going to hell. No, No, NO! But the etymological fact is that "Jehovah" is a mistranslation based upon a historical misunderstanding.) Like changing "Betty" into "Botta" by keeping the same consonants but using the wrong vowels.
- In our modern Bibles, then, whenever YHWH is found, we usually "translate" it as LORD or Jehovah. Both are wrong, though Jehovah is certainly preferable to LORD.
- "God" is a noun. It is a type of Being. "God" is not a name. "Human" is what you are....but you also have a name.
- Thus, when catechisms & preachers say "What is God's name? God is God's name" they are also simply wrong.
- As you can see, the farther we go in time, the more confusion & ignorance we acquire. At this point, very few of even the ordained clergy understands any of this. Of those who know it, only a small percentage actually cares.
- Yet the 3rd Commandment STILL SAYS, "Thou shall not take the Name of YHWH your God in vain, for YHWH will not leave him unpunished who takes His Name in vain."
- Thus, the need for The Church of Yahweh.
- YHWH sent His Son YHSWH (Jesus) to the earth to remind us that we are all YHWH's children. YHSWH came in the Name of YHWH.
Bangbang
Active Member
Good point! Check this out if you have not done so allready.searcher63 said:
http://www.yhwh.com/Cross/cross22.htm
gnosis_777 said:
Iēsous = Greek NT.
Iesu = Vulgate.
Iesus = 1611 King James.
Jesus = King James and others.
These all look and sound to much like "son of zeus" to me so I prefer using YAHshua which is, in my opinion, a true translation of the Hebrew and means YAH saves.
ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT
Member
Im a witness and here are links to articles written by witnesses. They shall answer your questions.dawny0826 said:I have a hard time understanding ANY religion that adds to or takes away from the Bible.
I encourage JW to do a little research on a man by the name of Charles T. Russel. He was the forefather of the JW movement. You'll find that the New World Translation of the Bible was pioneered by people with LITTLE if ANY Greek and Hebrew training...people who had an underlying agenda...they wanted to change the way the Bible read.
Further, when you reject the Trinity concept...you've missed God's plan for your salvation completely. Jesus Christ IS the key to your salvation. And when you accept Jesus Christ into your life....you receive the Holy Spirit of God...who resides within you...guiding and directing you in your ways. That's the trinity...right there. Father, Son and Holy Ghost...all separate yet the SAME.
And you know...my question to JW is this. Where's your peace? I know...because the BIBLE clearly states this...that the way to salvation is through Jesus Christ. JW go door to door trying to recruit people into their religion and they're ignoring the Great Commission that we're responsible for carrying out which is to spread the GOSPEL of Jesus Christ. I don't have to BUY my way into heaven...I'm saved through Jesus Christ...now I have to strive to be like him...to live my life according to the Bible...
And as for the Mormons, I've known some beautiful people in my life, both Mormon and Jehovah's Witness yet I cannot and will not ever understand how intelligent people completely violate such a predominate Bible teaching without a second thought...do not ADD or TAKE AWAY from the BIBLE.
Yet, the Jehovah's Witnesses bash other translations of the Bible...which are FAR more accurate. And they rely so heavily upon instruction within their churches. When Jesus Christ died...the veil in the Tabernacle was torn...for a reason. We then had an open door to God through Jesus Christ, his son. We don't HAVE to EVER step foot in a church to develop a fruitfull relationship with our God. It's helpful...to keep us focused but all we need to live good lives...is an open heart and a Bible.
And with LDS...there's just so much to the religion that isn't Biblical. So much faith is put in the teachings of a man...a man, much like Russel who decided that he had the authority to change the bible to suit his fancy. I don't see honor in that...I can't. You don't need a separate book to instruct you how to live. The Bible is sufficient. HIS word is more than sufficient.
I do respect people as individuals, despite their religious believes. I've had such close friends who believe differently than I do. So, please don't misconstrue my post as a personal attack against anyone individually. I don't know anyone on these forums well enough to make personal comments about them. These are simply my opinions and I don't intend them as personal attacks...I'm just airing my concerns...
And despite our differences, I truly DO wish peace and happiness to all...
Trinity:
http://www.watchtower.org/library/ti/article_02.htm
http://www.watchtower.org/library/ti/article_03.htm
http://www.watchtower.org/library/ti/article_04.htm
http://www.watchtower.org/library/ti/article_05.htm
http://www.watchtower.org/library/ti/article_06.htm
http://www.watchtower.org/library/ti/article_07.htm
http://www.watchtower.org/library/ti/article_08.htm
http://www.watchtower.org/library/ti/article_09.htm
Another thing, why do you believe God would only use people fluent in Greek and Hebrew, to translate his word, surely if God wants something to be accomplished, then surely he could use whoever he likes. I mean, what idiot translated that hell is a fiery place for sinful humans to be tortured forever. Apart from the fact that hell, 'sheol' is translated as 'grave' why would God being a 'God of Justice' do that to that to them anyway..
There are many examples of God using people who would not be considered to have the best criteria to use.
Wescott and Hort also revised our bible that we now use.
'they wanted to change the way the Bible read.'
exactly..restore it to its origonal translation. (as close as they could get it anyway)
Also, I think you need to some research on what we preach as you are incorrect.
http://www.watchtower.org/library/jt/index.htm?article=article_04.htm
Another shocker..you aren't going to heaven..
That is the most inane substitute for reasoning that I've seen in some time.wmam said:
God sure looks like Dog to me - that's why I prefer Gouda!
dawny0826
Mother Heathen
So, you have the authority to judge MY heart, I take it?ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT said:
I've already read your propaganda. And I've already been told by a JW in my own living room that I'm going to hell because I believe very much in the Trinity. I was also told that my Bible was mere Shakespeare...and that I should be reading from the New World Translation.
You're entitled to your beliefs. As I am. So, if you'd like to run around in circles with me...get your tennis shoes on...I'm ready to go.
You can call my Bibles Shakespeare...you can tell me that I'm going to hell all you want.
It doesn't change my heart...it won't alter the peace within my heart. I am saved by the blood of Jesus Christ. Spiritually, I KNOW I'm free. I don't need a religion...I need Jesus Christ. And his grace is MORE than sufficient for me.
From the research I've done on Charles T. Russel...I haven't found anything at all honorable about the man. So, please, enlighten me if I've missed something.
___________________________________________________________________________
"These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God." 1 John 5:13
Moses the God Archetype*
Active Member
:tsk: Oh my intellectuals,you people seem to babble on about the true meaning of this and of that,but in essense our purpose for being here is to serve GOD and to become one with him in order to reach that stage of enlightment,that is our goal is it not, i myself serve the divine diety krsna(krishna) for within him all life flows-bhakti-yoga the path of devotion.
searcher63
Member
WOW DAWNY:dawny0826 said:I have a hard time understanding ANY religion that adds to or takes away from the Bible.
I encourage JW to do a little research on a man by the name of Charles T. Russel. He was the forefather of the JW movement. You'll find that the New World Translation of the Bible was pioneered by people with LITTLE if ANY Greek and Hebrew training...people who had an underlying agenda...they wanted to change the way the Bible read.
Further, when you reject the Trinity concept...you've missed God's plan for your salvation completely. Jesus Christ IS the key to your salvation. And when you accept Jesus Christ into your life....you receive the Holy Spirit of God...who resides within you...guiding and directing you in your ways. That's the trinity...right there. Father, Son and Holy Ghost...all separate yet the SAME.
And you know...my question to JW is this. Where's your peace? I know...because the BIBLE clearly states this...that the way to salvation is through Jesus Christ. JW go door to door trying to recruit people into their religion and they're ignoring the Great Commission that we're responsible for carrying out which is to spread the GOSPEL of Jesus Christ. I don't have to BUY my way into heaven...I'm saved through Jesus Christ...now I have to strive to be like him...to live my life according to the Bible...
And as for the Mormons, I've known some beautiful people in my life, both Mormon and Jehovah's Witness yet I cannot and will not ever understand how intelligent people completely violate such a predominate Bible teaching without a second thought...do not ADD or TAKE AWAY from the BIBLE.
Yet, the Jehovah's Witnesses bash other translations of the Bible...which are FAR more accurate. And they rely so heavily upon instruction within their churches. When Jesus Christ died...the veil in the Tabernacle was torn...for a reason. We then had an open door to God through Jesus Christ, his son. We don't HAVE to EVER step foot in a church to develop a fruitfull relationship with our God. It's helpful...to keep us focused but all we need to live good lives...is an open heart and a Bible.
And with LDS...there's just so much to the religion that isn't Biblical. So much faith is put in the teachings of a man...a man, much like Russel who decided that he had the authority to change the bible to suit his fancy. I don't see honor in that...I can't. You don't need a separate book to instruct you how to live. The Bible is sufficient. HIS word is more than sufficient.
I do respect people as individuals, despite their religious believes. I've had such close friends who believe differently than I do. So, please don't misconstrue my post as a personal attack against anyone individually. I don't know anyone on these forums well enough to make personal comments about them. These are simply my opinions and I don't intend them as personal attacks...I'm just airing my concerns...
And despite our differences, I truly DO wish peace and happiness to all...
Not sure where your getting your info. on Witnesses...but there are a few mistatements posted here that I need to clear up so that others reading this will not get secondhand ( and frankley wrong) information.
Firstly: JW's that I know are very much at peace. Their hope for a cleansed Earth under a single Earthly Government with Christ at the helm is a very comforting hope that they have.
Secondly:I dont know a single witness that feels he is "BUYING" his way to everlasting life by going Door to Door. They are simply Obeying Christs command found at: Mathew 24:14 and mathew 28:19,20. Door to Door is simply the best way to reach people and the most personal (one-on-one).
Thirdly: I know MANY, MANy, MANY, Witnesses who use a variety of translations in their ministry. The truth can be found in ANY translation. However, that being said, one cannot ignore the fact that SOME PASSAGES in SOME TRANSLATIONS HAVE BEEN ALTERED from their original GREEK or HEBREW to SlANT a scripture toward a specific belief. Sorry Dawny, thats just a fact. To ignore that is really to bury ones head in the sand.
dawny0826
Mother Heathen
After re-reading my own post...I don't much like the tone of it and I did make several statements which I don't agree with anymore. I believe I made a comment on the LDS forum stating that I now feel differently and see certain things in a different light.searcher63 said:
And If I don't have a clear understanding of what the Jehovah Witnesses believe...please, someone, let me know what I'm missing here. Give me the run down...Perhaps I just had a very negative experience with two people who weren't very good representatives of the Jehovah Witnesses or perhaps I misconstrued what was being said... most of the knowledge that I have about the Witnesses is information that has either been given to me by Witnesses themselves or information that I've researched on my own.
I'm well aware of what the Great Commission is. It's to spread the Gospel (or good news) to all nations.
I had a conversation with two Witnesses and I was told that Jesus was only a great teacher and that we should strive to live like him and that he was the Son of God but it's blasphemy to pray in his name and that I was going to hell for believing in the Trinity. I was also told that the NKJV of the Bible is just Shakespeare and that there's no way that I could really know that I'm saved. I was a bit put off that someone told me that I was going to hell in my own living room but you know...
I didn't agree with any of these statements and instead of praying and having a Bible study...we ended up debating in my living room about the Trinity, go figure. Two weeks later...they come back and left literature on my door step which attempts to disprove the Trinity.
I'd say that if our differences are simply chalked up to our different interpretations of the Bible...like I stated before...unless we want to run around in circles on this topic...just like the thread on the Trinity...it's probably best to stop here. My heart is set as I'm sure the hearts of the JW are set on what they believe.
Obviously, it's the opinion of quite a few that I'm going to be destroyed in hell for my beliefs and I can't help but to question any religious organization which branched from ideology born of a man who claimed that he knew the exact date in which Jesus Christ returned (yes, according to Mr. Charles T. Russel...Jesus Christ returned in 1914) to Earth. (Or so reads the majority of the articles I've read on the man...others claim worse.)
However, that being said, one cannot ignore the fact that SOME PASSAGES in SOME TRANSLATIONS HAVE BEEN ALTERED from their original GREEK or HEBREW to SlANT a scripture toward a specific belief.
Yeah. Exactly...that was MY whole point. But I am more inclined to believe that there is more room for error with a translation translated by individuals without proper training in Greek or Hebrew. The New World Translation of the Bible was prompted by disagreeance with the concept of hell and Jesus Christ as a deity. I'm sorry but I do see a bit of underlying agenda there...especially if you're not well versed in the language you're translating.
We're all entitled to our own beliefs and I truly do have respect for others. If I'm wrong...show me...by all means...that's what's so great about this site is that we can learn from each other. If I'm mistaken...fill me in...teach me...I'm all "ears".
And maybe I have been overly critical. It's just hard for me to understand some of the differences between what I believe and what the Witnesses believe. So...if I've misconstrued what's been said...please DO fill me in. I stand pretty firm in my beliefs but I truly do admire anyone who feels strongly convicted to practice what they believe...and I also believe very much in love and respect...so...if you don't get that vibe from me...please know that love and respect are very much a part of who this gal is...
searcher63
Member
Dawny:dawny0826 said:After re-reading my own post...I don't much like the tone of it and I did make several statements which I don't agree with anymore. I believe I made a comment on the LDS forum stating that I now feel differently and see certain things in a different light.
And If I don't have a clear understanding of what the Jehovah Witnesses believe...please, someone, let me know what I'm missing here. Give me the run down...Perhaps I just had a very negative experience with two people who weren't very good representatives of the Jehovah Witnesses or perhaps I misconstrued what was being said... most of the knowledge that I have about the Witnesses is information that has either been given to me by Witnesses themselves or information that I've researched on my own.
I'm well aware of what the Great Commission is. It's to spread the Gospel (or good news) to all nations.
I had a conversation with two Witnesses and I was told that Jesus was only a great teacher and that we should strive to live like him and that he was the Son of God but it's blasphemy to pray in his name and that I was going to hell for believing in the Trinity. I was also told that the NKJV of the Bible is just Shakespeare and that there's no way that I could really know that I'm saved. I was a bit put off that someone told me that I was going to hell in my own living room but you know...
I didn't agree with any of these statements and instead of praying and having a Bible study...we ended up debating in my living room about the Trinity, go figure. Two weeks later...they come back and left literature on my door step which attempts to disprove the Trinity.
I'd say that if our differences are simply chalked up to our different interpretations of the Bible...like I stated before...unless we want to run around in circles on this topic...just like the thread on the Trinity...it's probably best to stop here. My heart is set as I'm sure the hearts of the JW are set on what they believe.
Obviously, it's the opinion of quite a few that I'm going to be destroyed in hell for my beliefs and I can't help but to question any religious organization which branched from ideology born of a man who claimed that he knew the exact date in which Jesus Christ returned (yes, according to Mr. Charles T. Russel...Jesus Christ returned in 1914) to Earth. (Or so reads the majority of the articles I've read on the man...others claim worse.)
However, that being said, one cannot ignore the fact that SOME PASSAGES in SOME TRANSLATIONS HAVE BEEN ALTERED from their original GREEK or HEBREW to SlANT a scripture toward a specific belief.
Yeah. Exactly...that was MY whole point. But I am more inclined to believe that there is more room for error with a translation translated by individuals without proper training in Greek or Hebrew. The New World Translation of the Bible was prompted by disagreeance with the concept of hell and Jesus Christ as a deity. I'm sorry but I do see a bit of underlying agenda there...especially if you're not well versed in the language you're translating.
We're all entitled to our own beliefs and I truly do have respect for others. If I'm wrong...show me...by all means...that's what's so great about this site is that we can learn from each other. If I'm mistaken...fill me in...teach me...I'm all "ears".
And maybe I have been overly critical. It's just hard for me to understand some of the differences between what I believe and what the Witnesses believe. So...if I've misconstrued what's been said...please DO fill me in. I stand pretty firm in my beliefs but I truly do admire anyone who feels strongly convicted to practice what they believe...and I also believe very much in love and respect...so...if you don't get that vibe from me...please know that love and respect are very much a part of who this gal is...
First off this post shows me that you are very sincere. Not only in your belief system, but I also sense a strong desire to be respectful and kind to others! I am sorry for your bad experience with the two JW's. All I can say about that is perhaps they were new or whatever...but whatever the reason they were wrong. Since JW's do not believe in HELL as a place of torment to punish wrongdoers I cant even guess why they would make that statement. On top of that , they should not have made the statement for another reason. JW's are taught that GOD is the ultimate judge on any issue. They are taught to follow Christs example of Love, and kindness as fruitages of GOD's Holy Spirit. So I can only apologize for their misrepresentation and poor behaviour. Theres no excuse for that.
JW's witnesses are taught through an ongoing ministry school to be very respectful of others.They are not sent out to argue with others...thats highly counter-productive.
So again Dawny, please accept my apologies for your experience and I wish you well in your search for GOD as i know you do for me.
searcher63
Member
P.S.:searcher63 said:
As for your thoughts on Christ's returning in 1914. That is a deep subject which is best left for another time I think.
Bangbang
Active Member
As a former minsterial servant and member of the Watctower Bible and Tract Society I found that the brothers and sisters were very quick to judge and would go far out of there way to find a "sinner" within the congregation to judge him or her and disfellowship him or her. They claim this is done to keep the congregation clean.
Luke 6:37 (New International Version)
Judging Others
37"Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven.
Luke 6:37 (New International Version)
Judging Others
37"Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven.
searcher63
Member
Amazing how Ex-This or Ex-that become so bitter toward the institution they once belonged to. There have been references made to JW's use of disfellowshipping as some type of spiritual witch hunt.
Thats just more bitter talk.
The use of that tool is misunderstood by some.
It is a means of last resort to keep the congregation spiritually clean..but equally as important it is used as a means to GAIN BACK a brother or sister. The practice was used by the first Century Christians as well.
Before it is implemented EVERY EFFORT is made to help the person...and it is only used as I stated when the person has committed a SERIOUS wrongdoing (I.E. Adultry, ETC.) and then only when the person is UNREPENTANT.
Thats just more bitter talk.
The use of that tool is misunderstood by some.
It is a means of last resort to keep the congregation spiritually clean..but equally as important it is used as a means to GAIN BACK a brother or sister. The practice was used by the first Century Christians as well.
Before it is implemented EVERY EFFORT is made to help the person...and it is only used as I stated when the person has committed a SERIOUS wrongdoing (I.E. Adultry, ETC.) and then only when the person is UNREPENTANT.
while God judges those outside? (those not in the congregation)"Remove the wicked [man] from among yourselves. 1 corinthians 5;13 it is scriptually correct to remove unrepentant ones from the congregation . doing things Gods way is always the best way, who wants unrepentant ones around to spoil the unity of true christians . nice to see that there is a congregation of christians around who are doing it Gods way
