Why does the Quran direct Muslims to Bible?

Pegg · Jan 20, 2012

Pastek said:
No offense, but i've heard that your Bible is different from the other Bibles. By christians themselves.
Like I said, i saw different translations (french, english and spanish) and there is not the sentence you have

Im sure you have heard such things about our bible. But our bible properly translates the context of what is going on.

David gets incited by some 'one' to number the people. God is angry at him.
Another bible writer adds the detail that the some 'one' who incited David was Satan the devil and that is why God was angry at David.

interpreting is as much about 'context' as it is about words....and when you put the two different writers together to compare, you get the picture of who the 'one' is that incited David. Any translators who put that God incited David have translated it incorrectly because the context shows that it was Satan.

Pastek said:
No, sometimes it's completely different :
Here one exemple :

26:47 And while he yet spake, lo, Judas, one of the twelve, came, and with him a great multitude with swords and staves, from the chief priests and elders of the people.

26:48 Now he that betrayed him gave them a sign, saying, Whomsoever I shall kiss, that same is he: hold him fast.
26:49 And forthwith he came to Jesus, and said, Hail, master; and kissed him.
(Matthew)

18:3 Judas then, having received a band of men and officers from the chief priests and Pharisees, cometh thither with lanterns and torches and weapons.
18:4 Jesus therefore, knowing all things that should come upon him, went forth, and said unto them, Whom seek ye?
18:5 They answered him, Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus saith unto them, I am he. And Judas also, which betrayed him, stood with them.
(John)

matthew is writing from the perspective of what Judas had done while John (who would have been standing at Jesus side) was writing from the perspective of what Jesus said and did. Just because John doesnt mention the kiss does not mean he has the story wrong.

Pastek said:
Are you ok that for the same scene it's happen differently ?
One say Judas kissed Jesus as a sign for the soldiers

One said Jesus went forth and asked them what they want

Im perfectly ok with it. Its simply a matter of perspectives. John was adding details as he saw them or he may simply have deliberately left it out because he was highlight Jesus actions on that night, not Judas's actions.

Pastek said:
An other one about Jesus on the cross :
15:39 And when the centurion, which stood over against him, saw that he so cried out, and gave up the ghost, he said, Truly this man was the Son of God.

Pastek said:
(Mark)

23:47 Now when the centurion saw what was done, he glorified God, saying, Certainly this was a righteous man.
(Luke)
In one version he said he is a man in an other one he said he is the Son of God

the likelihood is that the man said both. He began to praise God so he was obviously moved by what had taken place. The darkness over the sky had caused him to believe that Jesus was both righteous and the son of God.

I dont see a contradiction here. Both writers are adding the details that the other did not add and in this way we get a fuller picture of what had taken place.

Pastek said:
Sometimes the scene is different, sometimes the sentences are different, sometimes both

How can we be sure that Jesus did this or said that ? Some disciples weren't even there when he was on the cross

of course because each writer writes from a different perspective and had gathered information from different witnesses.

how many different accounts of 9/11 are there??? Plenty. Why? because not everyone stood in exactly the same position and saw things from exactly the same set of eyes.

LaaIlahaIllAllah · Mar 26, 2012

Pegg said:
This is a question for the muslim posters mainly but others may join in. I have noticed that a lot of muslims posters seem to be of the opinion that the bible (hebrew and greek scriptures) are not to be viewed as the Word of God...that the text is compromised and untrustworthy.

However, i'd like to ask what the opinion is on these verses from the Quran which encourages the use of the bible?

Āl Imrān [3]:3, 4, NJD: He has revealed to you the Book with the truth, confirming the scriptures which preceded it; for He has already revealed the Torah and the Gospel [Injīl in Arabic] for the guidance of men.

Al-Māidah [5]:46, 47: And in their footsteps, We sent 'Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary), confirming the Taurat (Torah) that had come before him, and We gave him the Injeel (Gospel), in which was guidance and light and confirmation of the Taurat (Torah) that had come before it, a guidance and an admonition for Al-Muttaqun (the pious)

Yūnus [10]:94.If thou wert in doubt as to what We have revealed unto thee, then ask those who have been reading the Book from before thee.

It seems to me that the Quran is endorsing the use of the holy bible rather then trying to correct its teachings. I'd like to know where this idea that the bible needed correcting comes from?

And if the bible was falsified 'later' as muslims claim, then when is 'later'? It must have been before Mohammads time, otherwise he would not have come and declared that it had been changed... but then if it was before Mohammad, why would the Quran (which was written AFTER Mohammads time) direct people to the bible?

This all seems very contradictory to me.

Hi, this was probably answered already but I'll still give you one since I don't feel like checking 50 pages if what I'm about to say has been said.

Muslims believe that Moses and Jesus (peace be upon them) both received revelation from God, the Taurat and Injeel respectively. The "Torah" we have now in the Bible but the Injeel we don't even really have in the NT except for some quotes of his that were recorded.

The first verse you quoted tells us that the Quran came to confirm the revelations before it, which it does since we Muslims do believe that Torah and Injeel were revealed to the prophets. And both of them were the guidance of the people at the time.

With second one basically same thing except instead of talking about Quran confirming previous scriptures, it's talking about Injeel confirming the previous scriptures.

The third one says to ask the people of the Book if you have doubts about what has been revealed and the immediate context is the story of Moses and the Children of Israel and the basics are similar even today, with the sea splitting, staff to snake, magicians, God speaking to Moses (peace be upon him), C.O.I. messing up many times, etc.

And stories of other prophets are similar as well.

One verse that I remember that talks about corruption is:

Then woe to those who write the Book with their own hands, and then say:"This is from Allah," to traffic with it for miserable price!- Woe to them for what their hands do write, and for the gain they make thereby.

[ Quran 2:79 ]

I forget the rest but you can prolly just do a Google search to find them.

Also, not only was the Quran revealed to correct the "mistakes" of today's Bible but to replace the Mosaic Law as well.

And the Biblical prophet Jeremiah accuses the people of corrupting the Torah as well - or at least the 'lying scribes' for doing so - in Jeremiah 8:8.

Another thing is that the Quran was written down during the lifetime of the prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) but was compiled into one 'set' a little while after his death.

faheemkamran · Mar 27, 2012

an interesting discussion going on

Dingbat · Jul 12, 2012

Evangelist-1 said:
*Post Deleted*
.

How do you know Allah is not the God of Abraham? How does it teach against teachings in the Bible? I love random accusations as much as the next person but typically I love proof along with it not random assertions.

Evangelist-1 · Jul 13, 2012

Dingbat said:
How do you know Allah is not the God of Abraham? How does it teach against teachings in the Bible?
I love random accusations as much as the next person but typically I love proof along with it not random assertions.

Yes, I don't blame you at all.
I said it was a short post.
It's kind of a long story with the proof texts, but I do have them.
After 2 years dealing with Muslims, I've kinda lost interest in this topic.
But, if there's enough interest, I'm willing to start a new thread.

Tranquil Servant · Sep 16, 2012

I am a follower of the Messiah; I have many Muslim friends and have read Quranic verses concerning Jesus (Isa) many times. I don't think the Quran is directing Muslims to the Bible. The Injil means the Gospels. I think the Quran is putting emphasis on the notion that the messages of the Torah and the Gospels were a prelude to the messages of the Quran.
What I don't understand is, if In Islam Jesus was anointed with the knowledge of the Torah and the Gospel and was sent by God to correct the teachings of the Torah (at the time) in the same manner the prophet Muhammed (PBUH) was sent to correct the teachings of the Gospel, then why did he not teach against it. As a matter of fact Jesus was circumcised (as the Law of Moses commanded), would often go to Jewish Temples, and participate in Jewish customs. He also said to obey the Law of Moses and that he wasn't teaching anything new because Jews at the time were anticipating the Messiah.

21 Eight days later Jesus' parents did for him what the Law of Moses commands.
41 Every year Jesus' parents went to Jerusalem for Passover. 42 And when Jesus was twelve years old, they all went there as usual for the celebration.
46 Three days later they found Jesus sitting in the temple, listening to the teachers and asking them questions. 47 Everyone who heard him was surprised at how much he knew and at the answers he gave.---Luke 2
[ The Law of Moses ] Don’t suppose that I came to do away with the Law and the Prophets. I did not come to do away with them, but to give them their full meaning.---Matthew 5:17
Herod brought together the chief priests and the teachers of the Law of Moses and asked them, “Where will the Messiah be born?”---Matthew 2:4

Also, the Torah is included in the Bible because we believe the Gospel corresponds with the Torah. The Bible (or Gospels) don't correct the Torah.
However, The Quran doesn't mention which scriptures of the Bible are corrupt and which are correct.

Nyhottie82 · Nov 20, 2012

In the book of isaiah Christians believe he's speaking of a virgin However that was a mistranslation from the Hebrew text into Greek. On Hebrew "ha alma" means young woman, never a virgin. Plus the chapter is talking about a war and the kingdom of Judah whose ruler was king Achaz. The prophet Isaih was telling the king that he will win the war and the king will know this because there will be a sign- a young woman will have a boy and name him Emanuel. And this took place 700 years before Jesus. If such a detail is incorrect, this makes Christianity and Islam invalid. Sorry guys

F0uad · Nov 20, 2012

People learn what a Injil is and there is no such word in the Quran as Injil in a plural form.

It means One Gospel furthermore this One Gospel should have not been written down but memorized since the Quran says that the Christians forgot what they used to recite and later on says that the Jews are the one who corrupted the writings of the torah.

InvestigateTruth · Nov 21, 2012

Pegg said:
It seems to me that the Quran is endorsing the use of the holy bible rather then trying to correct its teachings. I'd like to know where this idea that the bible needed correcting comes from?

And if the bible was falsified 'later' as muslims claim, then when is 'later'? It must have been before Mohammads time, otherwise he would not have come and declared that it had been changed... but then if it was before Mohammad, why would the Quran (which was written AFTER Mohammads time) direct people to the bible?

This all seems very contradictory to me.

In fact, the whole Idea that the Bible is corrupted, did not exist in original Islam, or Quran. It was an aditional idea which was added by some Islamic Religious Leader.

What I found out from History, was that, Muhammad and the early Moslems did not believe that the Injil and Torah were corrupted.

The word that quran uses in the verses, which Moslems often refer to as indication of changes to Books, is "Tahrif".
According to Moslem Scholar Amin Ahsan, there are 4 types of tahrif:

Amin Ahsan Islahi writes about four types of tahrif:[6]

To deliberately interpret something in a manner that is totally opposite to the intention of the author. To distort the pronunciation of a word to such an extent that the word changes completely.
To add to or delete a sentence or discourse in a manner that completely distorts the original meaning. For example, according to Islam, the Jews altered the incident of the migration of the Prophet Abraham in a manner that no one could prove that Abraham had any relationship with the Kaaba.
To translate a word that has two meanings in the meaning that is totally against the context. For example the Hebrew word that is equivalent to the Arabic ابن was translated as son whereas it also meant servant and slave.
To raise questions about something that is absolutely clear in order to create uncertainty about it, or to change it completely.

Tahrif - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So, from the above, tahrif, mainly means misinterpretation, and twisting the meaning, and not changing the actual Text.

In fact, there are evidence that, Prophet Muhammad and early Moslems, did not believe that the actual Text of the Injils or Torah was corrupted. They believed that the meaning of them were twisted and misinterpreted.

Upto 315 years after Muhammad, the recorded Historical evidence show that, the intention of Quran was to say that the Jews and Christians had misinterpreted the Text of their Book. For example:

Al-Bukhari reported that Ibn Abbas (Cousin of Muhammad) said [the Jews] alter and add although none among Allahs creation can remove the words from His book, they alter and distort their apparent meaning with this Hadith it is clear that those who walked with the Prophet (PBUH) believed the text of the Torah was original, while holding the view that the Jews perverted their interpretation.

In the year 796 Abu l-Rabi Muhammad ibn al-Layth (a courtier to Kalif Harun al-Rashid ) penned a letter to Constatine VI stating that the word tahrif should be read as the Jews had distorted their sense. Whoever looks in the books of the prophets will find Muhammad (PBUH) mentioned, but the people of the book have obscured these references by changing their interpretation. Ibn al-Layth categorically denies the possibility of passages having been added to, or omitted from, the scriptures, and he then goes on to use the text of the Torah as proof of the authenticity of the Torah (a belief both he and the kalif share).

300 year after Muhammad still, Abu Bakr Muhammad ibn al-Tayyib al-Baqillani was of the opinion that the words of Moses were still extant in their Hebrew original and that the Jews had inadvertently made mistakes in their translations.

It is only in later years, that some of Moslems started to say the actual text of the injil or Torah were corrupted.
Source:
http://www.judaism-islam.com/islam-teaches-torah-is-corrupted-tahrif-but-what-does-that-mean/

Thus as regards to the verses in Quran which Moslems often refer to as corruption of Bible, it seems to me, those verses of Quran are mistranslated.

For example the verse 5:41, here is the translation by Muhammad Asad correctly:

"O APOSTLE! Be not grieved by those who vie with one another in denying the truth: such as those who say with their mouths, "We believe," the while their hearts do not believe; and such of the Jewish faith as eagerly listen to any falsehood, eagerly listen to other people without having come to thee [for enlightenment]. They distort the meaning of the [revealed] words, taking them out of their context, saying [to themselves], "If such-and-such [teaching] is vouchsafed unto you, accept it; but if it is not vouchsafed unto you, be on your guard!" [Be not grieved by them-] for if God wills anyone to be tempted to evil, thou canst in no wise prevail with God in his behalf. It is they whose hearts God is not willing to cleanse. Theirs shall be ignominy in this world, and awesome suffering in the life to come-" 5:41

http://www.islamawakened.com/quran/5/41/default.htm

Whenever we do a Tafseer, we need to know the History, and reason why those verses are revealed. We need to know the story behind the revelation of each verse.
The Verses that Quran revealed regarding "Tahrif" It has to do with writing certain Books and Interpretations regarding Injil or Torah, at the time of Muhammad. You would know that if you do your research as to what was the reason those verses were revealed historically.

Yes, There are verses in Quran that talk about "Modification" and alteration by the Religious Leaders. however, those refer to misinterpretations of ONLY particular cases.

One of them is concerning the penalty of adultery, when the prophet was to explain the penalty of Adultry to some Jewish leaders.
Which the Quran reveals "They distort the meaning of the [revealed] words, taking them out of their context" See Quran 4:44-46

It is clear, in that instance, by perverting the Text is meant "Misinterpretation" and "twisting" as the Torah still contains the verse that says punishment for adultery is death by stone.
Another example is: "A part of them heard the Word of God, and then, after they had understood it, distorted it, and knew that they did so." Quran 2:75
This verse, also indicates that the meaning of the Word of God hath been perverted, not that the actual words in the Text of Bible are changed.

Another example,: "Woe unto those who, with their own hands, transcribe the Book corruptly, and then say: This is from God, that they may sell it for some mean price." Quran 2:79

This verse was revealed regarding the Jewish leaders who were living at the time of Muhammad. For they had written false interpretations to refute the claims of Muhammad.

As regrads to 5:13 and 5:14, I believe this is the correct translations, by Asad:

"Then, for having broken their solemn pledge, We rejected them and caused their hearts to harden-[so that now] they distort the meaning of the [re-vealed] words, taking them out of their context; and they have forgotten much of what they had been told to bear in mind; and from all but a few of them thou wilt always experience treachery. But pardon them, and forbear: verily, God loves the doers of good."
http://www.islamawakened.com/quran/5/13/default.htm

Thus again, Quran is saying they distorted the meaning of the Text. It does not say, the actual text was distorted. Forgetting the teachings, also does not indicate, it was ommited from the Text of Injil, it can only mean from their mind. They did not care to follow them anymore.

InvestigateTruth · Nov 21, 2012

F0uad said:
People learn what a Injil is and there is no such word in the Quran as Injil in a plural form.

It means One Gospel furthermore this One Gospel should have not been written down but memorized since the Quran says that the Christians forgot what they used to recite and later on says that the Jews are the one who corrupted the writings of the torah.

I think what you are missing is that, Quran refers to revelation that came through Jesus as "Injil"
That revelation then came to Disciples of Jesus, through Jesus. Then Later the 4 Disciples wrote their own accounts of Injil. The fact that the Disciples were inspired and martyrs, and the fact that the four Gospels agree with each other, proves their accounts on writing injil are correct.
The fact is All four Injils essencially and fundamentally teach the same things. You cannot find even a single contradictions between them. (The minor differences does not mean contradictions. I can show you verses of Quran, which have minor differences, but revealed in different Surahs)

-Peace

Tranquil Servant · Nov 22, 2012

InvestigateTruth makes a good point.
And F0uad is right; there is just one Gospel (the one Jesus taught) which is documented in the many Books of the New Testament.
Another thing is, most Muslims use the argument which points out how long it took the early Christians to actually document the Gospels. So by saying the early Christians should have memorized the Gospel instead of writing it down, still doesn't prove the scriptures were corrupted. I believe, even the earliest known manuscripts of the New Testament books aren't the original ones because the rulers and leaders in the time of early Christianity were trying to eliminate the "Christian" movement. IF (and this is a BIG IF..?) the ancient manuscripts we have today are the originals, how do we know they weren't memorized? Anyway, as a follower of the Messiah, I believe God inspires those who worship him by providing us with the Holy Spirit (or the spirit of the Lord God) which helps to reveal the Lord's true words and their meanings because we as mere Humans cannot rely on our own understanding. The Holy Spirit is mentioned even in the Old Testament.
2 Samuel 23:2 (The Old Testament)
“The Spirit of the LORD spoke through me; his word was on my tongue.
2 Chronicles 24:20 (The Old Testament)
Then the Spirit of God came upon Zechariah son of Jehoiada the priest. He stood before the people and said, “This is what God says: ‘Why do you disobey the LORD’s commands? You will not prosper. Because you have forsaken the LORD, he has forsaken you.’”
Isaiah 59:21 (The Old Testament)
“As for me, this is my covenant with them,” says the LORD. “My Spirit, who is on you, and my words that I have put in your mouth will not depart from your mouth, or from the mouths of your children, or from the mouths of their descendants from this time on and forever,” says the LORD.
Ezekiel 11:5 (The Old Testament)
Then the Spirit of the LORD came upon me, and he told me to say: “This is what the LORD says: That is what you are saying, O house of Israel, but I know what is going through your mind.
Ezekiel 13:3 (The Old Testament)
This is what the Sovereign LORD says: Woe to the foolish prophets who follow their own spirit and have seen nothing!
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Luke 12:12 (The New Testament)
for the Holy Spirit will teach you at that time what you should say.”
Acts 4:31 (The New Testament)
After they prayed, the place where they were meeting was shaken. And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and spoke the word of God boldly.
2 Peter 1:21 (The New Testament)
For prophecy never had its origin in the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.

Ibraahiym · Apr 19, 2013

Pegg said:
This is a question for the muslim posters mainly but others may join in. I have noticed that a lot of muslims posters seem to be of the opinion that the bible (hebrew and greek scriptures) are not to be viewed as the Word of God...that the text is compromised and untrustworthy.

However, i'd like to ask what the opinion is on these verses from the Quran which encourages the use of the bible?

Āl Imrān [3]:3, 4, NJD: He has revealed to you the Book with the truth, confirming the scriptures which preceded it; for He has already revealed the Torah and the Gospel [Injīl in Arabic] for the guidance of men.

Al-Māidah [5]:46, 47: And in their footsteps, We sent 'Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary), confirming the Taurat (Torah) that had come before him, and We gave him the Injeel (Gospel), in which was guidance and light and confirmation of the Taurat (Torah) that had come before it, a guidance and an admonition for Al-Muttaqun (the pious)

Yūnus [10]:94.If thou wert in doubt as to what We have revealed unto thee, then ask those who have been reading the Book from before thee.

It seems to me that the Quran is endorsing the use of the holy bible rather then trying to correct its teachings. I'd like to know where this idea that the bible needed correcting comes from?

And if the bible was falsified 'later' as muslims claim, then when is 'later'? It must have been before Mohammads time, otherwise he would not have come and declared that it had been changed... but then if it was before Mohammad, why would the Quran (which was written AFTER Mohammads time) direct people to the bible?

This all seems very contradictory to me.

The Holy Qur'aan Chapter Two Verse 136 , Revealed In The Year 624 - 626 A.D. (Verses 266 , 632 Were Revealed In Medina ~ Al Baqarah ( The Heifer ) , Where It States ;

Qoo - Loo ( You All Are To Say , Tell ) Aanan - Naa ( We Have Faith ) Be-Al - Lahi
( In The Source ) Wa ( And ) Maaa ( What That Which ) Unzil ( He Sent Down ) Ilaynaa ( To , Towards Us ) Wa ( And ) Maa ( What , That Which ) Unzila ( He Sent Down ) Ilaaa ( To , Towards ) Ibraa -Heema ( Abraham The Father Of Many Nations)
Wa ( And ) Ismaa -'Eela ( Ishmael , Allah Or El Hears ) Wa ( And ) Ishaaqa ( Isaac,
He Who Laughs ) Wa ( And ) Ya'Aqooba ( Jacob Supplanter ) Wa ( And ) Al - Asbaati ( The Tribes ) Wa ( And ) Maaa ( What That Which ) Oo-Tiya ( Was Given )
Moossa ( Moses , Drawn Forth ) Wa ( And ) 'Eesaa ( Isa -Jesus , Savior ) Wa (And )
Maa ( What , That Which ) Oo -Tiya ( Was Given ) Al -Nabe -Yoona ( The Newsbearers ) Min ( From ) Rab -Bihim ( Their Sustainer ) Laa ( Don't, Not ) Nufar -Riqu ( We Make A Distinction ) Bayna ( Between ) Ahadin ( Anyone ) Minhum ( From Them )

Tell Them This ( Muhammad ) ; ''We , ( Muhammad And His Followers ) Have Faith In Allah , And What He Sent Down To Us , ( The Qur'aan ) And What He Sent Down To Abrawhawm And Yishmael And Yitschaq , And Ya'aqob And The Tribes And What Was Given To Mosheh , ( The Torah ) And Isa / Yashu'a - ( The Revealations , And What Was Given To The Anbiyaa , 'Newsbearers , From Their Rabb ,'Master ,We ( Muhammad And His Follwers ) Do Not - Nufarriqu - , Many Any Distinction Between Any Of Them And We Muslimuwm 'Surrender In Peace To Him .

Holy Qur'aan 3 ; 3 , Clearly States; Nazzala 'Alaykal -Kitaaba Bil -Haqqi Musaddiqal -
Limaa Bayna Yadayhi Wa 'Anzalat - Tawraata Wal-'Injiil ,

Which they Translate As '' It Is He Who Sent Down To Thee ( Step By Step ) In Truth The Book Confrming What Went Before It , And He Sent Down The Law (Of ) Moses ) And The Gospel ( Of Jesus )

J2hapydna · Jan 1, 2014

Pegg said:
This is a question for the muslim posters mainly but others may join in. I have noticed that a lot of muslims posters seem to be of the opinion that the bible (hebrew and greek scriptures) are not to be viewed as the Word of God...that the text is compromised and untrustworthy.

However, i'd like to ask what the opinion is on these verses from the Quran which encourages the use of the bible?

Āl ‘Imrān [3]:3, 4, NJD: “He has revealed to you the Book with the truth, confirming the scriptures which preceded it; for He has already revealed the Torah and the Gospel [Injīl in Arabic] for the guidance of men.”

Al-Mā’idah [5]:46, 47: And in their footsteps, We sent 'Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary), confirming the Taurat (Torah) that had come before him, and We gave him the Injeel (Gospel), in which was guidance and light and confirmation of the Taurat (Torah) that had come before it, a guidance and an admonition for Al-Muttaqun (the pious)

Yūnus [10]:94.“If thou wert in doubt as to what We have revealed unto thee, then ask those who have been reading the Book from before thee.”

It seems to me that the Quran is endorsing the use of the holy bible rather then trying to correct its teachings. I'd like to know where this idea that the bible needed correcting comes from?

And if the bible was falsified 'later' as muslims claim, then when is 'later'? It must have been before Mohammads time, otherwise he would not have come and declared that it had been changed... but then if it was before Mohammad, why would the Quran (which was written AFTER Mohammads time) direct people to the bible?

This all seems very contradictory to me.

The Arabs had a hard time reconciling the Quran with the Bible so they came to the conclusion the Bible must have been abrogated. So, this is the official position of the orthodoxy now. However, there have always been Muslims who believed the Bible was never abrogated and they continue to exist. I am one of them. I generally consider the OT and Gospel of St Matthew as scripture along with the Quran.

Yuusif12 · Feb 25, 2014

Allah sent the torah down to his mesenger musa (Moses).

After a while he sent another book, the bible on to eesa. And all jews who believed in musa were required to believe in eesa (jesus).

Now he has sent down his holy book the Quran onto muhammad and everyone was required to believe in it.

All rulings in the bible and the torah are abrogated by the Quran. but it confirms the bible and the torah which quided the people:
Āl Imrān [3]:3, 4, NJD: He has revealed to you the Book with the truth, confirming the scriptures which preceded it; for He has already revealed the Torah and the Gospel [Injīl in Arabic] for the guidance of men.

Al-Māidah [5]:46, 47: And in their footsteps, We sent 'Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary), confirming the Taurat (Torah) that had come before him, and We gave him the Injeel (Gospel), in which was guidance and light and confirmation of the Taurat (Torah) that had come before it, a guidance and an admonition for Al-Muttaqun (the pious)

that explains those two ayat.

Now the bible and the torah were changed, a little bit before the prophet was sent.
but after he died it was change a lot.

Bu the Quran also says to ask the people of the books of Allah. because allah told them about mohammad and the quran in their books.

Pegg · Feb 26, 2014

Yuusif12 said:
Allah sent the torah down to his mesenger musa (Moses).

After a while he sent another book, the bible on to eesa. And all jews who believed in musa were required to believe in eesa (jesus).

Now he has sent down his holy book the Quran onto muhammad and everyone was required to believe in it.

All rulings in the bible and the torah are abrogated by the Quran. but it confirms the bible and the torah which quided the people:
Āl ‘Imrān [3]:3, 4, NJD: “He has revealed to you the Book with the truth, confirming the scriptures which preceded it; for He has already revealed the Torah and the Gospel [Injīl in Arabic] for the guidance of men.”

Al-Mā’idah [5]:46, 47: And in their footsteps, We sent 'Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary), confirming the Taurat (Torah) that had come before him, and We gave him the Injeel (Gospel), in which was guidance and light and confirmation of the Taurat (Torah) that had come before it, a guidance and an admonition for Al-Muttaqun (the pious)

that explains those two ayat.

Now the bible and the torah were changed, a little bit before the prophet was sent.
but after he died it was change a lot.

hello,

Have you heard of the Dead Sea scrolls? These were found in our own time, they were dated to be from the 2nd century BCE. The parts of hebrew scriptures found in them have been compared to the bible we have today and the only changes found were to be slight spelling errors in some words... but the text has proved to be virtually the same.

Those who teach that the bible has been changed are not correct in that assumption. Nor does even the Quran say that the holy scriptures had been tampered with and changed....its only muslim scholars who make that claim.

Yuusif12 said:
Bu the Quran also says to ask the people of the books of Allah. because allah told them about mohammad and the quran in their books.

this is a point worth considering ... Mohammad lived in the 7th century CE and back then he viewed the bible as from God and advised arabs to consult the 'people of the book'....why would he do that if he thought the bible was to be abrogated by the Quran???

Dont you think he would have told Arabs NOT to go to the people of the book because their book was now abrogated by the Quran???

Yuusif12 · Feb 27, 2014

But how do you know they havn't been changed?

The bible is from god.
it is well known that the prophet thought of the christians and jews in his time as disbelievers. (he fought them)

There is a difference if the ayah was general or specific:

For the general sense it would mean that if we Muslims have any question regarding any matter to do with religion, then we should go to the Christians for the answers. However if the verse is for the specific sense, then this means that it is only limited to one specific issue, basically on one specific topic and subject, hence the question we are to ask the Christians only deals with the specific question in hand.

This surah is dealing with one specific issue, which if you happen to be in doubt about, then go ask the Christians. This then brings us to the next issue, what specific topic is the Surah referring to? Well the specific issue that is being mentioned here is the advent of Muhammad's (AS) prophethood.

The Quran is telling the prophet and the Muslims that if you happen to be in doubt about Muhammad (AS) as a prophet, then simply console the people of the book, and they will be able to confirm this is the truth due to the fact that Muhammad (AS) was prophesised and foretold in their own books.

The Quran makes it clear that Muhammad (AS) is prophesised in the previous scriptures:

"Those who follow the messenger, the unlettered Prophet, whom they find mentioned in their own (scriptures),- in the law and the Gospel;- for he commands them what is just and forbids them what is evil; he allows them as lawful what is good (and pure) and prohibits them from what is bad (and impure); He releases them from their heavy burdens and from the yokes that are upon them. So it is those who believe in him, honour him, help him, and follow the light which is sent down with him,- it is they who will prosper." (7:157)

As I said, the scriptures were changed a little at the time of the prophet. And then they were changed quite a bit.
But still so much in it is true

Pegg · Feb 28, 2014

Yuusif12 said:
But how do you know they havn't been changed?

we know they havnt' been changed because of the vast number of ancient extant copies that have been found and are held in museums and churches around the world.

And if Mohammad is from the 7th century, then anything that mohammad knew of at that time, he must have viewed as Gods word otherwise he would not have spoken of the bible as a book from God and a revelation sent by God.

The fact is, we have ancient texts older then Mohammads time and they are exactly what we have today.

Yuusif12 said:
The bible is from god.
it is well known that the prophet thought of the christians and jews in his time as disbelievers. (he fought them)[/qu

There is a difference if the ayah was general or specific:

For the general sense it would mean that if we Muslims have any question regarding any matter to do with religion, then we should go to the Christians for the answers. However if the verse is for the specific sense, then this means that it is only limited to one specific issue, basically on one specific topic and subject, hence the question we are to ask the Christians only deals with the specific question in hand.

this is where a huge difference in the way the Quran is written....apart from the mosaic law, the christian scriptures provide 'principles' rather then specific laws. So any issue you might have would likely be answered by one of those principles for principles can apply to so many different situations.

Yuusif12 said:
This surah is dealing with one specific issue, which if you happen to be in doubt about, then go ask the Christians. This then brings us to the next issue, what specific topic is the Surah referring to? Well the specific issue that is being mentioned here is the advent of Muhammad's (AS) prophethood.

The Quran is telling the prophet and the Muslims that if you happen to be in doubt about Muhammad (AS) as a prophet, then simply console the people of the book, and they will be able to confirm this is the truth due to the fact that Muhammad (AS) was prophesised and foretold in their own books.

I've read the bible from cover to cover for many years now and i have never seen anything which would imply another prophet was to come after Jesus. According to Jesus, no more prophets would come into the world....he was the promised messiah, the one to whom all the prophets of the past spoke about. Why would any more prophets be needed after the Messiahs arrival??

The fact is, we dont believe mohammad is prophesied to come in the scriptures because the scriptures do not say so.

Yuusif12 said:
As I said, the scriptures were changed a little at the time of the prophet. And then they were changed quite a bit.
But still so much in it is true

it wasnt actually the written word that was changed... it was the oral teachings that were not in harmony with the scriptures.

They would teach one thing, but the scriptures would say another. So perhaps mohammad realised this contradiction. But i can assure you, what was written by the prophets has been preserved and protected. But the oral teachings of various teachers are simply not in harmony with the written word and that is what has changed....their teaching, not their scriptures.

Irfanalam · Jul 16, 2014

[FONT=&quot]Salaam alaikum,
[/FONT]Muslims consider the Quran to be the only revealed book that has been protected by God.If the Muslim can undermine the strength and integrity of God's word, then it would be much easier for him to win arguments, confound the Christian, and make converts of those who don't know the truth and power of the Bible.If you want learn Quran then search this (tayseerulquran.com) and read more Quran tips.

LuisDantas · Jul 16, 2014

Pegg said:
This is a question for the muslim posters mainly but others may join in.

Thanks.

I have noticed that a lot of muslims posters seem to be of the opinion that the bible (hebrew and greek scriptures) are not to be viewed as the Word of God...that the text is compromised and untrustworthy.

Much as they see Hadiths, too. Muslims are even more worried about corruption of texts than Christians.

However, i'd like to ask what the opinion is on these verses from the Quran which encourages the use of the bible?

Āl Imrān [3]:3, 4, NJD: He has revealed to you the Book with the truth, confirming the scriptures which preceded it; for He has already revealed the Torah and the Gospel [Injīl in Arabic] for the guidance of men.

Al-Māidah [5]:46, 47: And in their footsteps, We sent 'Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary), confirming the Taurat (Torah) that had come before him, and We gave him the Injeel (Gospel), in which was guidance and light and confirmation of the Taurat (Torah) that had come before it, a guidance and an admonition for Al-Muttaqun (the pious)

Yūnus [10]:94.If thou wert in doubt as to what We have revealed unto thee, then ask those who have been reading the Book from before thee.

It seems to me that the Quran is endorsing the use of the holy bible rather then trying to correct its teachings. I'd like to know where this idea that the bible needed correcting comes from?

The verses claim that the revelations were genuine, but the Quran also claims that their messages (and presumably the letter of the texts) were ill-kept and their messages became corrupted to some degree.

An important part of Islamic doctrine is the assurance that the original text of the Quran (in Arabic) is blessed by a God-given assurance that it can't ever be miskept and corrupted in any way.

Hadiths can be mishandled. Sunnahs can be mishandled. The Hebraic and Christian scriptures are stated outright to be mishandled. And, of course, not too many Muslims can even read in Arabic, so a large percentage of Muslims ends up having to trust their own religious authorities.

But all the same, they usually value that certainty that the Quran is incorruptible, arguably far more than its actual significance even if taken for granted would warrant.

And if the bible was falsified 'later' as muslims claim, then when is 'later'? It must have been before Mohammads time, otherwise he would not have come and declared that it had been changed...

Not necessarily. Besides, the Quran does say that the Torah and the Gospels were not properly kept.

but then if it was before Mohammad, why would the Quran (which was written AFTER Mohammads time) direct people to the bible?

It doesn't. It establishes a degree of respect to the "People of the Book" and acknowledges the legitimacy of their revelations, all the while claiming to know better and care better than either. In effect, it presents itself as the rightful inheritor of both groups and all but expects them to join their faith.

This all seems very contradictory to me.

Maybe you did not think in terms of corruption of scripture as time goes by?

gnostic · Jul 19, 2014

If the bible is corrupted as Muslims say, then where is the Islamic version of the bible that provide correction to the scriptures?

The answer is - there are none.

The Qur'an doesn't provide any correction that we can compare against any verse of any book or letter of either the Hebrew or Christian scriptures, because the Qur'an is a completely different scripture.

For example, the Genesis narrated from the creation of man to the death of Jacob's son, Joseph. The Qur'an only provide brief summary, often disjointed.

If anything, the Qur'an is the one that provide corrupted biblical narratives, sometimes even more wildly exaggerated than the originals.

Like for example, Solomon's ability. In 1 Kings 3, Solomon prayed for divinely-inspired wisdom, so that he can rule wisely, and have the ability to distinguish a lie from the truth. Through his wisdom, his kingdom prospered more so than in his father's reign. But in the Qur'an, Solomon become a parody of Doctor Dolittle, in which he speak and understand the languages of birds and ants.

So it is impossible to compare the bible and the Qur'an, because they are nothing alike.

Why does the Quran direct Muslims to Bible?

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