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Grand theft morality

gseeker

conflicted constantly
I can guarantee is had nothing to do with the discussion. It is a fact, after all, that Christians do behave badly. He will probably just ask God's forgiveness and all will be hunky dory according to his belief system.

He isn't a Christian, he is a Taoist with a Christian background. He never got past the idea that the God of the Bible dictates morality.
 

gseeker

conflicted constantly
But what if he's doing it not just because morality is subjective, but he finds it fun?

Doing anything for any reason without considering the consequences is immature and unintelligent. If he considered the risk and consequence and did it anyway, that is also self destructive and negates the idea that morality is subjective.
 

Lady B

noob
Let me explain it like this. We all know that ideas can be just as dangerous as any physical object. So lets say you gave a gun to a person without considering first if that person was responsible enough to have a gun. Then lets say that person shot themselves,at that point aren't you partially responsible for what happened? And does that end up being a violation of morality?

OK good point with guns and irresponsable people.I will pass on that one.

However God aside I believe people for the most part know right from wrong. Even morality being subjective do you really think he saw stealing a car is an OK thing to do?
Please explain for me how subjective morality negates the laws of the land? Even if he thought hey there's nothing wrong in stealing this car and then selling stolen items, the u.s law does say this is wrong, would that not stop him?
 

MissAlice

Well-Known Member
Are our theological views responsible for the actions of those we instruct and debate?

If that were the case then people including my brother who has read the bible and asked for grandmother's theological advice wouldn't be back in prison for the umpteen time. Morality in a sense is subjective to those who feel it won't affect but it depends on the person. I'm sure my brother thought like many times before he wouldn't get caught but later thought he would quit his actions. I'm not sure we are entirely responsible for the actions of those who choose to do what most of us would consider immoral.
 

gseeker

conflicted constantly
OK good point with guns and irresponsable people.I will pass on that one.

However God aside I believe people for the most part know right from wrong. Even morality being subjective do you really think he saw stealing a car is an OK thing to do?
Please explain for me how subjective morality negates the laws of the land? Even if he thought hey there's nothing wrong in stealing this car and then selling stolen items, the u.s law does say this is wrong, would that not stop him?

Good point, however if you believe morality is subjective then ultimately morality doesn't exist as anything other than a code or limits a person places on themselves. In other words even morality at that point isn't a code for right or wrong but rather a code one places upon themselves for personal reasons. For instance, I have a moral code but I don't believe in right or wrong. My morality is for self to help my existence be as smooth as possible with the most beneficial results.

I know many people who have strong moral values yet break the law almost daily. Laws do not equal morality but rather are based upon morality.
 

gseeker

conflicted constantly
If that were the case then people including my brother who has read the bible and asked for grandmother's theological advice wouldn't be back in prison for the umpteen time. Morality in a sense is subjective to those who feel it won't affect but it depends on the person. I'm sure my brother thought like many times before he wouldn't get caught but later thought he would quit his actions. I'm not sure we are entirely responsible for the actions of those who choose to do what most of us would consider immoral.

Ah, but if you convince someone that there is no such thing as morality or immoral activity and that morals are simply designed to be the building blocks of laws that govern and prevent harm to society, if at that point they decide not to have any concern for said laws then you are partially responsible for that choice. My morality governs self and to be successful in life means not turning society against oneself.
 

idav

Being
Premium Member
Nope, but all people who don't believe in absolute morality shouldn't find it bad.

If someone doesn't believe in absolute morality does that mean they wouldn't follow the laws of the land? Laws are just recommendations? Who you serve is the one deeming the morality even if your just serving yourself.
 

Alceste

Vagabond
Nope, but all people who don't believe in absolute morality shouldn't find it bad.

Why not? If I decide, for example, that I will do no harm to myself or others, and have strong reasoning supporting this decision, why shouldn't I look upon an act that harms others and oneself based on shoddy reasoning as wrong?
 

The Sum of Awe

Brought to you by the moment that spacetime began.
If someone doesn't believe in absolute morality does that mean they wouldn't follow the laws of the land? Laws are just recommendations? Who you serve is the one deeming the morality even if your just serving yourself.

No it doesn't mean that, but they shouldn't find anything as bad if they don't consider it bad (obviously) so what is so bad about a friend committing illegal crimes and getting caught for it?
 

The Sum of Awe

Brought to you by the moment that spacetime began.
Why not? If I decide, for example, that I will do no harm to myself or others, and have strong reasoning supporting this decision, why shouldn't I look upon an act that harms others and oneself based on shoddy reasoning as wrong?

You decide that, doesn't mean his friend did.
 

Alceste

Vagabond
You decide that, doesn't mean his friend did.

Yes, and my reasoning is sound while his friend's reasoning is shoddy. Therefore his friend is in the wrong.

Not believing that some supernatural intelligence dictates the rules is not the same as believing everyone is equally right, all the time. We have other, better ways to construct morality, like philosophy for example, or naturalism.
 

The Sum of Awe

Brought to you by the moment that spacetime began.
Yes, and my reasoning is sound while his friend's reasoning is shoddy. Therefore his friend is in the wrong.

Not believing that some supernatural intelligence dictates the rules is not the same as believing everyone is equally right, all the time. We have other, better ways to construct morality, like philosophy for example, or naturalism.

How is your reasoning sound compared to his? Only to you it is more sound, to him he disagrees.

You see morals are based on reason, but no reasoning is more reasonable than another.
 

The Sum of Awe

Brought to you by the moment that spacetime began.
:facepalm:. Human empathy is a fact

Oh sure it is, that's why there are more than a thousand criminals in prison all in relation to harming another human, and politics that separate us and often making us biased, and religion that will tell us when and where it is OK to kill man, and many other ways that no human on earth, has never had empathy for all men, just the ones he likes.

If the world loses rulers, we will all become cannibals.
 

idav

Being
Premium Member
Oh sure it is, that's why there are more than a thousand criminals in prison all in relation to harming another human, and politics that separate us and often making us biased, and religion that will tell us when and where it is OK to kill man, and many other ways that no human on earth, has never had empathy for all men, just the ones he likes.

If the world loses rulers, we will all become cannibals.

Here in the US violent crimes are like a few hundred out of a 100,000. Hardly seems significant but it adds up especially when people can't ever get out of the judicial system once they are in. So you'll want to count the 99% of the US population that doesn't commit violent crimes first.
 
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