Christianity - Being Saved and the Unpardonable Sin

I always viewed the blasphemy of the Spirit as unpardonable because such a person is unwilling to return and repent. If they go as far as blatantly and knowingly blaspheming than they are not a person to honestly and truthfully ask for God's forgiveness. Its not the sin itself that is unpardonable, but the principle that drives a person to do so.

Searcher of Light said:

I always viewed the blasphemy of the Spirit as unpardonable because such a person is unwilling to return and repent. If they go as far as blatantly and knowingly blaspheming than they are not a person to honestly and truthfully ask for God's forgiveness. Its not the sin itself that is unpardonable, but the principle that drives a person to do so.

Click to expand...

That's an interesting way to think about it. Thanks!

What are your thoughts on whether or not a lack or belief is a sin? If it isn't, do you believe we can be sent to Hell for things that are not sins?

I may be wrong but this is how I feel it is, so please excuse me if I don't get this to come out the way I'm intending:


In Matthew 12:32 it speaks of this as well as the same thing repeated in Luke 12:10...And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man (Jesus) will be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world(our earthly world), neither in the world to come( the world that will be changed for the believers once all is said and done;which means NO SECOND chances). Now to me this in essence means that once you have accepted Jesus into your heart and have decided to be a child of God (which is when you recieve the Holy Ghost) should you turn your back on your salvation and claim yoursefl a nonbeliever and deny the truths which you have received then you are cast away forever from God as if you never exsisted. When the day of judgement comes you then will be considered wicked and will be cast into fire and wail and there will be knashing of teeth(Matt.13:49-50)...this is the final judgement where we all come to the Lord to accept judgement for what we have or have not done here on this earth and with this life we have been given. We will either hear "Thou good and faithful servant" or "Depart from Me I never knew you". I do not believe in the 'if you don't get it right you'll have another chance'deal...if you haven't accepted the call by God and received the Holy Ghost by the time you die you WILL burn in the eternal lake of fire! This is not by God's choice but by your own...those who may be in possible far reaches of the earth that have never heard the word, I don't expect there to be any but should there be I do not believe they will be sent to the Lake of fire because they were never told the truth...I also feel God knows who will hear His word and believe or not believe so He already knows of which we speak...The Holy Spirit is the living God dwelling in all believers...to say anything against this indwelling that it doesn't exsist is sure to bring those who refuse the truth a real hurting at judgement day or upon the day they die which ever comes first.
This is MY personal opinion. I'm sure there are others but if we are to believe one part of scripture we can not disbelieve that the eternal lake of fire will not cause a burning for eternity to the unbelievers...This is why the Bible says there will be wailing and knashing of teeth. Want to test this burning...everyone knows the pain of a bad burn...imagine that burn over your whole body and it NEVER stops; no water to quench you and no let up...this is what WILL happen to unbelievers...they choose to not believe then they are choosing this for THEMSELVES. I'm not trying to be hurtful in anyway to those who do not believe in this but because of the love I have for all my brothers and sisters in Christ I must warn you of the consequences of denying the Holy Ghost as well as denying salvation...they are both intertwined.

You asked if it's a sin to not believe...yep...you can't harden your heart because you don't like what you hear and just assume it's too bizzar to say a God of GREAT love would ever let this happen...He doesn't want that for anyone...He wants us to ALL receive salvation...that's why He sent Jesus...but turn your back and you will not get a second chance should you walk out into the street and be killed today...there is no where in Scripture where it says you will.

Respectfully,
FTH

Those who may be in possible far reaches of the earth that have never heard the word, I don't expect there to be any but should there be I do not believe they will be sent to the Lake of fire because they were never told the truth

Click to expand...

Your comment here seems to indicate that just hearing the word is enough to condemn you if you don't believe. I was surprised in Germany at how many people there were there who knew the name Jesus Christ and had no clue as to why he was important. I can only imagine what it is like in the non-Christian areas of the world. I don't think that simply "hearing" the word is enough opportunity for someone to accept it.

Also, you said that it is a sin not to believe. At what point does this become a sin - at birth or when you hear the gospel for the first time?

Hi jonny..actually I feel it would be upon hearing the truth in the word of God. Once you do the Holy Ghost does the rest in tugging at the heart strings and wanting you to seek out more it's in the resisting where it makes the difference. A lot of people have it in the Holy Ghost bringing to question some of their current beliefs...when they want to try to prove their religion through all of what the word of God says and not just picking and choosing they are enlightened of the truth...if they just don't turn away God will lead them through their hearts to what He wants them to know through the Holy Ghost. There are so many spiritual leaders of each religion that when based solely upon the word of God VIA the Bible alone are seen to be leading their people down the wrong path. The Word of God may have been penned by the hands of man but it was inspired by God through the Holy Spirit. No writings that aren't contained in what we know as the Holy Bible translated correctly have what God wants for us in them...The Word of God...the Bible is being distributed well all over the earth through missions of missionaries. If they are called to seek they shall find...they just need to 'want' to know the truth the scriptures offer.

KJV..........

Jam 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.

jonny said:

Perhaps people could start out by defining what they believe an unpardonable sin is and what blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is.

Click to expand...

I believe that blasphemy against the Holy Spirt is REJECTION of the Holy Spirit. That's my interpretation.

dawny0826 said:

I believe that blasphemy against the Holy Spirt is REJECTION of the Holy Spirit. That's my interpretation.

Click to expand...

Could you expound on this? How does one reject the Holy Spirit?

jonny said:

Could you expound on this? How does one reject the Holy Spirit?

Click to expand...

By rejecting Christ. Shall I expound further?

dawny0826 said:

By rejecting Christ. Shall I expound further?

Click to expand...

I agree that it is a rejection of Christ, but I believe that the phrase refers to the Holy Spirit because a level of knowledge of the divinity of Christ is required. Do you agree with this or do you believe that not accepting Christ (even if you have very little knowledge of him) constitutes rejection?

I look at it as if you are told by the Holy Spirit a Truth and you deny such Truth or curse such Truth or do not comply to such Truth then hey............ thats pretty much a slap in the face of the Holy Spirit trying to convey a Truth of YAH to you. Kinda like knowing the Truth and not following it. Which sin is greater? Maybe this will help.....................

KJV....................

2Pe 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
2Pe 2:21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
2Pe 2:22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is more then just rejecting Christ's teachings. Remember, Paul rejected them at one time. In Matthew 9:34, and 12:24 the Pharisees that knew that Jesus was Christ accused him of being the prince of demons when through the Holy Spirit, he drove out demons. That, to me, is blasphemy.

jonny said:

I agree that it is a rejection of Christ, but I believe that the phrase refers to the Holy Spirit because a level of knowledge of the divinity of Christ is required. Do you agree with this or do you believe that not accepting Christ (even if you have very little knowledge of him) constitutes rejection?

Click to expand...

"Therefore I say to you every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven men. Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come." Matthew 12:31-32 (NKJV)

I don't disagree but mind you, in my heart, I feel that Christ and the Holy Spirit are one in the same...Christ's works on earth were made possible because of God, our Father...manifested within HIM as the Holy Spirit.

I found an article which sort of reiterates my feelings...which I can't present as eloquently as I'd like...

http://www.bible.org/qa.asp?topic_id=13&qa_id=262

I struggle with answering your second question because on one token, the bible states that you're either for or against God...that there's no middle ground. But I also know that we've been given a choice. Jesus Christ...is a choice. If you have no knowledge of Christ...how can you reject him? So, I pray for a clear answer on this one...I really do. I KNOW that God IS compassion and love...these things I DO know for certain.

Anyway...

jgallandt said:

Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is more then just rejecting Christ's teachings. Remember, Paul rejected them at one time. In Matthew 9:34, and 12:24 the Pharisees that knew that Jesus was Christ accused him of being the prince of demons when through the Holy Spirit, he drove out demons. That, to me, is blasphemy.

Click to expand...

When I was growing up I used to get scared wondering if I had somehow committed "The unforgivable sin" without knowing what it was and that there was no hope for me if I had.(Pretty traumatic for a little kid) My mom helped me out a lot by saying:" If your even slightly worried about committing the unforgivable sin and screwing up your relationship with GOD....then you havent!"
Made me feel better.

fromthe heart said:

...but turn your back and you will not get a second chance should you walk out into the street and be killed today...there is no where in Scripture where it says you will.

Click to expand...

How about the person who once believed, then in defiance turned her back on Jesus (thus rejecting the Holy Spirit) for many years, then turned back around and once again accepted Him. Are you saying it's too late? That she won't be forgiven and might as well just stop praying 'cause God doesn't want her any more?

dawny0826 said:

"Therefore I say to you every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven men. Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come." Matthew 12:31-32 (NKJV)

I don't disagree but mind you, in my heart, I feel that Christ and the Holy Spirit are one in the same...Christ's works on earth were made possible because of God, our Father...manifested within HIM as the Holy Spirit.

I found an article which sort of reiterates my feelings...which I can't present as eloquently as I'd like...

http://www.bible.org/qa.asp?topic_id=13&qa_id=262

I struggle with answering your second question because on one token, the bible states that you're either for or against God...that there's no middle ground. But I also know that we've been given a choice. Jesus Christ...is a choice. If you have no knowledge of Christ...how can you reject him? So, I pray for a clear answer on this one...I really do. I KNOW that God IS compassion and love...these things I DO know for certain.

Anyway...

Click to expand...

That link descibes my belief in blasphemy pretty good. The big question in LDS doctrine is the level of knowledge or witness necessary before the sin becomes "unforgivable." My bet is that we will be given the benefit of the doubt and that the mercy of Christ will only be held back from the most egrigious offenders.

Note that in the description in that link, those who were accused of blasphemy had actually witnessed Christ performing miracles. In my mind, this is a fairly strong witness of Christ.

StewpidLoser said:

How about the person who once believed, then in defiance turned her back on Jesus (thus rejecting the Holy Spirit) for many years, then turned back around and once again accepted Him. Are you saying it's too late? That she won't be forgiven and might as well just stop praying 'cause God doesn't want her any more?

Click to expand...

I personally don't think that belief is enough to qualify one for the sins we are discussing. I doubt that even a simple witness from the Spirit is enough. I believe that you have to have an extremely sacred witness of the Savior and then turn your back on him and fight against him.

jonny said:

I believe that you have to have an extremely sacred witness of the Savior and then turn your back on him and fight against him.

Click to expand...

OK. Based on your statement, I'm reading that you're saying that if someone once was a believer and accepted Jesus as a personal Savior, then made a decision to turn her back on Him, she will never be forgiven, even of she changes her mind and heart later in life?

By "turning her back," I'm saying reject Him as her Savior and fight against Him every step of the way, including blaspheming and trying to disprove His existance to others. This person, even though she tried to be an athiest, ultimately realized there is a God, just not the personal and loving Savior that died to pay the ultimate penalty for her sins. From turning away and rejecting Christ, she disbelieved for nearly 20 years.

Are you saying that even if she finally turns back to Jesus and sincerely and completely and faithfully accepts Jesus into her heart, asks for forgiveness for rejecting Him (all of Him... the Father, Son AND Holy Spirit) she will never be forgiven? She's destined for eternity in hell because of her former sin?

StewpidLoser said:

OK. based on your statement, are you saying that if someone once was a believer and accepted Jesus as a personal Savior, then made a decision to turn her back on Him, she will never be forgiven? By "turning her back," I'm saying reject Him as her Savior and fight against Him every step of the way, including using blasphemy and trying to disprove His existance to others. This person, even though she tried to be an athiest, ultimately realized there is a God, just not the personal and loving Savior that died to pay the ultimate penalty for her sins. From turning away and rejecting Christ, she disbelieved for nearly 20 years.

Are you saying that even if she finally turns back to Jesus and sincerely and completely and faithfully accepts Jesus into her heart, she will never be forgiven?

Click to expand...

No, I don't believe that and I'm not saying that. When I say "extremely sacred witness" I believe that someone has to know (not believe or have faith) in the divinity of Christ through some sort of revelation, vision, or witness.

An example: If Christ appeared to you (for whatever reason) and then you denied his divinity and worked against him, you would probably qualify.

That's just my personal feelings on the matter and the reason why I believe that very few will qualify for the unforgivable sin. Christ's mercy is strong enough to account for doubts. I get these beliefs from an LDS scripture - Doctrine and Covenants 76:43 - but I freely admit that there are other possibilities. I guess you can call me an optimist.

43 Who glorifies the Father, and saves all the works of his hands, except those sons of perdition who deny the Son after the Father has revealed him.

In LDS doctrine this is called a Son of Perdition. These are from the LDS bible dictionary.

None of them is lost but the son of perdition, John 17: 12. It is impossible to renew them again unto repentance, Heb. 6: 4-6 (Heb. 10: 26-29). Mercy hath no claim on that man and his final doom is never-ending torment, Mosiah 2: 36-39. He is as though there was no redemption made, Mosiah 16: 5. Those who deny Christ’s miracles to get gain shall become like the son of perdition, 3 Ne. 29: 7. They will receive no forgiveness in this world or the next, D&C 76: 30-34 (D&C 84: 41; 132: 27). They are the only ones who will not be redeemed from the second death, D&C 76: 34-48. Sons of perdition deny the Holy Spirit after receiving it, D&C 76: 35. Sons of perdition deny the Son after the Father has revealed him, D&C 76: 43. Cain shall be called Perdition, Moses 5: 22-26.

Click to expand...

The followers of Satan who will suffer with him in eternity. Sons of perdition include (1) those who followed Satan and were cast out of heaven for rebellion during premortality, and (2) those who were permitted to be born to this world with physical bodies but then served Satan and turned utterly against God. Those in this second group will be resurrected from the dead but will not be redeemed from the second (spiritual) death and cannot dwell in a kingdom of glory (D&C 88: 32, 35).

Click to expand...

jonny said:

No, I don't believe that and I'm not saying that. When I say "extremely sacred witness" I believe that someone has to know (not believe or have faith) in the divinity of Christ through some sort of revelation, vision, or witness....

Click to expand...

OK, I'll try again... the person who once *knew* the divinity of Christ (thus believed and had faith) through whatever means and walked away will not be forgiven if she returns to him?