11 year old girl facing death penalty for "blasphemy"

fallingblood said:

The Church was also doing a lot that simply had nothing to do with Christianity. In fact, they were killing other Christians, because they didn't agree. They went as far as killing Popes. To think it had anything to do with Christianity really is not looking at the historical situation. Especially considering the circumstances surrounding the history here.

The Church was much more than a religious institution. It was a political and economical institution that operated very similar to preceding governments.

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No, the Catholic Church WAS Christianity, it WAS the offical Christianity, and it WAS the government.

waitasec said:

why must you state the obvious!???

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Because the implications of the obvious are being soundly ignored.

jasonwill2 said:

No, the Catholic Church WAS Christianity, it WAS the offical Christianity, and it WAS the government.

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And you really think that everything this government did was in the name of Christianity? If you do, then you have no idea what Christianity is, or you have no idea what the government was doing. My last post still stands, as it clearly shows that the Church was not just pushing Christianity, but was doing much more.

Second, the Catholic Church was not Christianity. It was a form of Christianity. Even then, there were different forms. And Catholicism itself was not unified anyway.

Finally, the Catholic Church, which was operating as the government, was also a government. The Pope was more than a religious leader, he was a political leader. The same is true in these various Muslim countries, such as Pakistan. It isn't just a religious leader. They are also political leaders. And much of the time, when they make BS laws regarding "religious" rights, it has nothing to do with religion. It has to do with keeping others down. It has to do with making sure that "them" (as opposed to us), stay in their place. We can be positive of this when those same sort of leaders, do the same sort of atrocities, regardless of religion (especially when such religions hardly even support such extremist ideas).

fallingblood said:

And you really think that everything this government did was in the name of Christianity? If you do, then you have no idea what Christianity is, or you have no idea what the government was doing. My last post still stands, as it clearly shows that the Church was not just pushing Christianity, but was doing much more.

Second, the Catholic Church was not Christianity. It was a form of Christianity. Even then, there were different forms. And Catholicism itself was not unified anyway.

Finally, the Catholic Church, which was operating as the government, was also a government. The Pope was more than a religious leader, he was a political leader. The same is true in these various Muslim countries, such as Pakistan. It isn't just a religious leader. They are also political leaders. And much of the time, when they make BS laws regarding "religious" rights, it has nothing to do with religion. It has to do with keeping others down. It has to do with making sure that "them" (as opposed to us), stay in their place. We can be positive of this when those same sort of leaders, do the same sort of atrocities, regardless of religion (especially when such religions hardly even support such extremist ideas).

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Oh really?

There shouldn't be any law on blasphemy, whether it be secular law or religious law. It simply outrageous and barbaric to think a life of human being is worth less than any supposed "holy" book. A new book can be printed. Human life cannot be brought back to life once he or she is dead.

fallingblood said:

In the time period he is talking about, Christianity ruled a small portion of the world. The majority of the world was not Christian.

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In the time period I'm talking about, Europe accounted for most of the world population.

fallingblood said:

The problem we have here is that (and I'm not just saying you, it is common for many of us, and I have been guilty of this as well) we often only picture the western world, while ignoring the rest.

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Europe is in the eastern hemisphere.

fallingblood said:

Sure, Europe was ruled (to a point) and some of the Middle East, but during that time (depending on exactly when we are talking about) Asia, much of Africa, South America, North America, and the variety of other island nations (as well as Australia) did not know Christianity.

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They are not relevant to the pagan conversion, and even then they were touched by the Christian sword.

Christianity accounts for 1/3 of the worlds belief, if thats not a major part of the world population then I don't know what it is.

fallingblood said:

Even today, Christianity does not represent a majority of the population. It may be the largest religion, but is still is a minority in the grand scheme of things.

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This is simply false. Its minor in the essence that there is a thousand different religions out there, but its major in the essence that of the thousand different religions out there, Christianity is known world wide, whereas animism and even various forms of paganism and henotheism are unknown.

fallingblood said:

Also, many of the pagans who did convert did so on their own free will. Christianity offered something they were not getting else where. Yes, there was also parts in which it was spread by the sword; however, in those instances, one can also find Christian on Christian fighting.

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Ok?

The pagans were not given a choice, they were to convert or face certain death.

What exactly did the Christians offer to the pagans that they were not getting else where? I would love to hear this.

fallingblood said:

The real motivation here wasn't spreading Christianity. It was spreading the power of a nation. Sure, religion may have been an excuse; but if religion wouldn't have been used, some other excuse would have been used. The reason being, it wasn't about religion. It was about power, and being different.

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This is false, the real motivation was spreading Christianity. Sure, if religion didn't exist there would be some other excuse, but that simply isn't the case.

Its a fact that Christians killed thousands of innocents in favor of and in order to procreate their religious doctrine and aspiration.

Just like in the medieval era those who knew how to read and write were seen as a threat to the Christian church. The inquisition is actually based off that instance.

fallingblood said:

The real problem here (and we have seen it in this thread as well), is an us vs them mentality. And waitasec made a great point; the "us" usually gets justified. And whether or not one practices the religion is besides the point.

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This just proves my whole point, if I might add, it also contributes to my original post.

Revoltingest said:

Then why do Dems (in the pockets of bankers) also wage expensive wars, & Pubs (in the pockets of arms makers) bail out banks?
And if capitalism is to blame, why do/did socialist countries also wage wars, eg, USSR, N Korea, Nazi Germany?
Again I ask, how much does anyone in public office benefit from these wars? Who steers us to war & how much
did they make from what company? Methinks this is just a conspiracy theory.

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The private banks and the private arms manufacturers have common interests. Who do you think is lending the government all that money to spend on wars? Who do you think is heavily investing in weapons manufacturing in the anticipation of a considerable profit margin?

I never said capitalism is to blame for ALL wars. Just the wars waged by a capitalist plutocracy.

Report: Ties that Bind: Arms Industry Influence in the Bush Administration and Beyond | World Policy Institute

Just how tied in with Wall Street is the Obama administration? - Slate Magazine

jasonwill2 said:

Oh really?

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Yes, really. People are just too quick to blame religion on everything while ignoring the many other factors that come in to play.

robo said:

Indeed. These people who are wanting death for this girl are not deriving even one bit of their ideology from the Quran or the Hadiths.

In fact, these people wanting death for this girl are actually non-Muslims pretending to be Muslim. They are actually blaspheming the peaceful message of the Quran.

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Islam is diverse and not homogeneous, so thats still not a reason to bash Islam as a whole. Just the ones who has a screwed up interpretation that makes them consider putting an 11 year old girl to death.

fallingblood said:

Yes, really. People are just too quick to blame religion on everything while ignoring the many other factors that come in to play.

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Is that so?

Father Heathen said:

Sure there is. If there is a god, it would be a being of pure love and pure logic. Therefore anything devoid of compassion or reason is not of god.

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Agreed.

But,
The keyword here is Islam,

because all in all there is no anyway to prove how my views on Islam are necessary more credible than theirs

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Orias said:

Islam is the logical religion of choice for those who seek to find shelter in death.

But then, all religions are.

Go death!

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Awkward comment .

Well, I think you need to educate yourself more about religions. Try to relate it to history, see how it brought about social reforms and cultural development, and then relate it to the contemporary period, observe how it effects the society in all the positive and negative ways, and figure out how to eliminate the negative impacts.

killing 11 year old girls is a little matter compared to all atrocities religion have caused. Just read a little bout inquisition lol.

Reverend Rick said:

Don't you mean not yet they don't?

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there is nothing to fear but fear it self

SLAMH said:

Agreed.

But,
The keyword here is Islam,

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So, going by that criteria, no form of islam has credibility.

Alceste said:

I'm sorry you lost a friend in Iraq. Why do you think religion is responsible for that, though? Iraq certainly didn't start that war, and war means casualties on every side.

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Like college. We go to college and expand our minds by taking various courses, majors, etc and whatever we learn we apply that in the world yes? Most of our knowledge from college is an extension of the real world. Now, when I see religion the knowledge of religion as expressed today is merely an extension of what was taught before. Even if Islam can boast 1 billion strong, that is not to say Islam is so peaceful that it just attracts people (in my understanding if children in Muslim homes are born, they too are Muslim based on the religion per household). All it takes are 1 million who hate all things western, or hate those who are jewish, or who have political ambitions to make other subscribe to the tenants of Islam. With a combination of the aforementioned attributes, if you put that into a volatile situation like Iraq, Afghanistan, or Hezbollah, you'll have what you see on CNN or the BBC, or Fox or whatever.

When I see an 11 year old mentally disabled child being sent to death I am sick. Even if this isn't Islamic immediately from the Muslim community there should be a condemnation by so-called moderates. Where are they? What about Saudi Arabia home to Muhammad the prophet? Or the American Muslim society? When I turn on my neutral news stations I see no protest, no clerics condemning them.

In my opinion they are afraid to chastise their own for fear of being categorized as "sleeping with the enemy" that being western civilization. Alas people are reflections of their faith. I can read a book all day but if the people I see don't reflect what is said in the book how can I conclude Islam is a faith of peace?

paarsurrey said:

It is a terrible incident and must be condemned by everybody; but it has got nothing to do with Islam/Quran/Muhammad; there is no teaching in Quran for such an act.

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If that is true where are the demonstrations and legion of clerics to tell these people that this is unislamic? I'll read my local newspaper for the answer.

Mr. Skittles said:

Like college. We go to college and expand our minds by taking various courses, majors, etc and whatever we learn we apply that in the world yes? Most of our knowledge from college is an extension of the real world. Now, when I see religion the knowledge of religion as expressed today is merely an extension of what was taught before. Even if Islam can boast 1 billion strong, that is not to say Islam is so peaceful that it just attracts people (in my understanding if children in Muslim homes are born, they too are Muslim based on the religion per household). All it takes are 1 million who hate all things western, or hate those who are jewish, or who have political ambitions to make other subscribe to the tenants of Islam. With a combination of the aforementioned attributes, if you put that into a volatile situation like Iraq, Afghanistan, or Hezbollah, you'll have what you see on CNN or the BBC, or Fox or whatever.

When I see an 11 year old mentally disabled child being sent to death I am sick. Even if this isn't Islamic immediately from the Muslim community there should be a condemnation by so-called moderates. Where are they?

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here:
"... What on Allah's earth is wrong with so many self-professed Muslims in the self-styled Islamic Republic of Pakistan? Have they taken leave of their morals as well as their senses? It beggars belief that they should want to hurt or attack a child in the name of a religion based on mercy, compassion and justice Some defenders of Pakistan's notorious blasphemy laws - under which anyone found guilty of insulting the Quran or Prophet Muhammad can be sentenced to death - have been keen to highlight the growing number of press reports that suggest Masih may be 16, rather than 11, and may not have Down's Syndrome.

To which the only appropriate response is: so what?

Whether she is 11 or 16, mentally able or mentally retarded is, frankly, irrelevant. For a start, a child is a child and should be treated as such.

Mehdi Hasan: Not In My Name: Islam, Pakistan and the Blasphemy Laws

In my opinion they are afraid to chastise their own for fear of being categorized as "sleeping with the enemy" that being western civilization. Alas people are reflections of their faith. I can read a book all day but if the people I see don't reflect what is said in the book how can I conclude Islam is a faith of peace?

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i see what you are saying.
i must ask though, are you basing your opinion on your fear or lack of the understanding that islam isn't out to 'get us'?

i just realized this...
this girl is a christian in a region where the relations between islam and christianity are very very tense. this is more than about an 11 yr old girl it is about punishing the christians for being christians IN THIS REGION

i just realized this...
this girl is a christian in a region where the relations between islam and christianity are very very tense. this is more than about an 11 yr old girl it is about punishing the christians for being christians IN THIS REGION

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Its not the first time religious intolerance has been seen out of that religion, its a continual pattern often blamed on left/right wing sects, as is every other problem from what I read.