• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Jesus (PBUH) in Islam

flysky

Member
The Christian belief about Jesus is that he is the only-begotten Son of God or God Himself, who died on the cross to save humans from Original Sin. Muslims hold that there is no such thing as Original Sin. So God had no reason to become a human and die on the cross. Even if there were something called Original Sin, Muslims do not see how God could be so helpless as to atone for that sin by dying on the cross. The Christians would answer:

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth on him should not perish, but have everlasting life” (John 3:16).

Did God really love the world so much… so much that He decided to sacrifice even His son, His only begotten son, to save the world from Original Sin? Christians would say, Yes.

On the other hand, Muslims would insist in the first place, that God is One and One Only, and, therefore, He didn’t have a son. Second, as God is Just, He would not punish the innocent to save the sinners. Third, the so-called Original Sin cannot be such a problem for the Almighty God that He is compelled to sacrifice “His own Son.” He could very well cancel that sin or He could simply demand an atonement from the sinful or at least ask for sincere repentance from them. Indeed, there was no need for God to subject His Son to the terrible torture he is said to have undergone, as portrayed in Mel Gibson’s The Passion of the Christ, for instance.

In fact, there were early Christians who did not believe in the crucifixion of Jesus. For instance, the Basilidians believed that someone else was crucified in his place. The names of Simon of Cyrene and even Judas Iscariot are heard in this context.

As for the Qur’an, it speaks of how Allah cleared Jesus of the disbelief of his people. It says what means:

*{[And remember] when Allah said: O Jesus! I will take you and raise you to Myself, and cleanse you of those who disbelieve; and I will make those who follow [you] superior to those who disbelieve until the Day of Resurrection. Then to me you will [all] return, and I will judge between you as to that wherein you used to differ. And as for those who disbelieve I will punish them with severe torment in this world and the Hereafter; and they will have no helpers.}* (Aal `Imran 3:55-56)
Thus, Allah raised Jesus up to Heaven, and so he was saved from an accursed death on the cross, in contrast to what his enemies and even his self-styled “followers” alleged. It was the plan of the enemies of Jesus to crucify him, but Allah foiled their plan. So to believe in his death by crucifixion means to believe that those unbelievers were successful against God’s plan. But assuredly they could not crucify Jesus the Messenger of Allah. The Qur’an says what means:

*{And their saying [is] ‘we slew the Messiah, Jesus Son of Mary, Allah’s messenger’ – They slew him not nor crucified him, but it appeared so to them. And those who disagree concerning it are in doubt thereof; they have no knowledge thereof save pursuit of a conjecture. For of a surety they slew him not; but Allah took him up to Himself. Allah is Almighty [and] All-Wise. And there is none of the people of the Book [the Jews and Christians] but will believe in him before his death, and on the Day of Resurrection he will be a witness against them.}* (An-Nisaa’ 4:157-159)
We Muslims believe in all the prophets of God and honor and respect them alike; we do not make any distinction between one and another of them. Muslims believe Jesus Christ to be one of the great prophets of God and hold that all prophets are brothers and that their religion is the same, namely, Islam (or unconditional submission to Allah). Allah says in the Qur’an what means:

*{He [Allah] has ordained for you the same religion as that which He ordained to Noah, and that which We inspired in you [Muhammad], and that which We ordained to Abraham and Moses and Jesus, saying: Establish the religion, and make no divisions therein. To those who worship other things than Allah, dreadful is that to which you call them. Allah chooses for Himself whom He will, and guides to Himself him who turns [in repentance to Him].}* (Az-Zukhruf 42:13)
And Allah knows best.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://askmuslims.com
 

Yasin

Member
flysky said:
Any comments?



Jesus' conception, birth, and mission:

"(Remember) when the wife of Imran said: My Lord I have vowed unto You that which is in my belly for your special service. Accept it from me. Lo! You, only You, art the Hearer, the Knower! And when she was delivered she said: My Lord! Lo! I am delivered of a female. Allah knew best of what she was delivered. the male is not as the female; and Lo! I have named her Mary, and Lo! I crave Thy protection for her and for her offspring from Satan the outcast. And her Lord accepted her with full acceptance and vouchsafed to her a goodly growth; and made Zachariah her guardian. Whenever Zachariah went into the sanctuary where she was, he found that she had food. He said: O Mary! Whence cometh unto you this (food)? She answered: It is from Allah. Allah giveth without stint to whom He will. Then Zachariah prayed unto his Lord and said: My Lord! Bestow upon me of Thy bounty goodly offspring. Lo! You are the Hearer of Prayer. And the angels called to him as he stood praying in the sanctuary: Allah giveth you glad tidings of (a son whose name is) John, (who cometh) to confirm a word from Allah, lordly, chaste, a Prophet of the righteous. He said: My Lord! How can I have a son when age has overtaken me already and my wife is barren? (The angel) answered: So (it will be). Allah doeth what He will. He said: My Lord! Appoint a token for me. (The angel) said: The token unto you (shall be) that you shalt not speak unto mankind three days except by signs. Remember thy Lord much, and praise (Him) in the early hours of night and morning. And when the angels said: O Mary! Lo! Allah has chosen you and made you pure, and has preferred you above (all) the women of creation. O Mary! Be obedient to thy Lord, prostrate thyself and bow with those who bow (in worship). This is of the tidings of things hidden. We reveal it unto you (Muhammad). You were not present with them when they cast their pens (to know) which of them should be the guardian of Mary, nor were you present with them when they quarreled (thereupon). (And remember) when the angels said: O Mary! Allah gives you glad tidings of a word from Him, whose name is the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, illustrious in the world and the Hereafter, and one of those brought near (unto Allah). He will speak unto mankind in his cradle and in his manhood, and he is of the righteous. She said: My Lord! How can I have a child when no mortal has touched me? He said: So (it will be). Allah creates what He will. if He decrees a thing, He saith unto it only: Be! and it is. And He will teach him the Scripture and wisdom, and the Torah and the Gospel. And will make him a messenger unto the children of Israel, (saying): Lo! I come unto you with a sign from your Lord. Lo! I fashion for you out of clay the likeness of a bird, and I breathe into it and it is a bird, by Allah's leave. I heal him who was born blind, and the leper, and I raise the dead, by Allah's leave. And I announce unto you what you eat and what you store up in your houses. Lo! herein verily is a portent for you, if you are believers. And (I come) confirming that which was before me of the Torah, and to make lawful some of that which was forbidden unto you. I come unto you with a sign from your Lord, so keep your duty to Allah and obey me. Lo! Allah is my Lord and your Lord, so worship Him. That is a straight path. But when Jesus became conscious of their disbelief, he cried: Who will be my helpers in the cause of Allah? The disciples said: We will be Allah's helpers. We believe in Allah, and bear you witness that we have surrendered (unto Him). Our Lord! We believe in that which You have revealed and we follow him whom You have sent. Enroll us among those who witness (to the truth). And they (the disbelievers) schemed, and Allah schemed (against them): and Allah is the best of schemers" A'al-Umran(3):35-54.


"And make mention of Mary in the Scripture, when she had withdrawn from her people to a chamber looking East, And had chosen seclusion from them. Then We sent unto her Our spirit (Gabriel) and he assumed for her the likeness of a man in every respect. She said: Lo! I seek refuge in the Compassionate One from you, if you art God fearing. He said: I am only a messenger of thy Lord, that I may bestow on you a faultless son. She said: How can I have a son when no mortal has touched me, neither have I been unchaste! He said: So (it will be). Thy Lord saith: It is easy for Me. And (it will be) that We may make of him a revelation for mankind and a mercy from Us, and it is a thing ordained. And she, conceived him, and she withdrew with him to a place. And the pangs of childbirth drove her unto the trunk of the palm tree. She said: Oh, would that I had died before this and had become a thing of naught, forgotten! Then (one) cried unto her from below her, saying: Grieve not! Thy Lord has placed a rivulet beneath you, And shake the trunk of the palm tree toward you, you wilt cause ripe dates to fall upon you. So eat and drink and be consoled. And if you meet any mortal, say: Lo! I have vowed a fast unto the Compassionate, and may not speak this day to any mortal. Then she brought him to her own folk, carrying him. They said: O Mary! You hast come with a most wicked thing. Oh sister of Aaron! Thy father was not a wicked man nor was thy mother a harlot. Then she pointed to him. They said How can we talk to one who is in the cradle, a young boy? He spake: Lo! I am the slave of Allah. He has given me the Scripture and has appointed me a Prophet, And has made me blessed wheresoever I may be, and has enjoined upon me prayer and alms giving so long as I remain alive, And (has made me) dutiful toward her who bore me, and has not made me arrogant, unblessed. Peace on me the day I was born, and the day I die, and the day I shall be raised alive(the hereafter)! Such was Jesus, son of Mary: (this is) a statement of the truth concerning which they doubt. It befits not (the Majesty of) Allah that He should take unto Himself a son. Glory be to Him! When He decrees a thing, He saith unto it only: Be! and it is. And lo! Allah is my Lord and your Lord. So serve Him. That is the right path. The sects among them differ: but woe unto the disbelievers from the meeting of an awful Day. See and hear them on the Day they come unto Us! Yet the evil doers are today in error manifest. And warn them of the Day of anguish when the case has been decided. Now they are in a state of carelessness, and they believe not. Lo! We inherit the earth and all who are thereon, and unto Us they are returned." Maryam(19):16-40
"When Jesus came with clear proofs (of Allah's sovereignty), he said: I have come unto you with wisdom, and to make plain some of that concerning which you differ. So keep your duty to Allah, and obey me. Lo! Allah, He is my Lord and your Lord. So worship Him. This is a right path. But the factions among them differed. Then woe unto those who do wrong from the doom of a painful day. Await they aught save the Hour, that it shall come upon them suddenly, when they know not? Friends on that day will be foes one to another, save those who kept their duty (to Allah). O My slaves! For you there is no fear this day, nor is it you who grieve; (You) who believed Our revelations and were self surrendered, Enter the Garden, you and your wives, to be made glad Therein are brought round for them trays of gold and goblets, and therein is all that souls desire and eyes find sweet. And you are immortal therein. This is the Garden which you are made to inherit because of what you used to do. Therein for you is fruit in plenty whence to eat. Lo! the guilty are immortal in hell's torment. It is not relaxed for them, and they despair therein. We wronged them not, but they it was who did the wrong. And they cry: O master! Let thy Lord make an end of us. He saith: Lo! here you must remain. We verily brought the Truth unto you, but you were, most of you, averse to the Truth." Al-Zukhruf(43):63-78


 

flysky

Member
10 brief points Christians
should know about Muslims and Jesus



Muslims love Jesus. We also love Abraham, Moses, and Noah, to name just a few other Prophets Muslims revere. May God's peace be upon all of these great messengers of God.
  1. Muslims also love the mother of Jesus, the Virgin Mary. We believe she was a pious and noble woman chosen over all of the women of the world.
  2. Muslims believe that Jesus was born miraculously of a virgin mother and no father. His birth is miraculous like the birth of Adam, the first human being, who was created with neither mother nor father.
  3. Muslims do not believe that Jesus was the son of God. God is so powerful and self-sufficient that He does not need a son or any kind of partner.
  4. In Arabic Bible the name for God is Allah. Therefore all Arab Christian call God Allah as Muslim do as well.
  5. Jesus did not die on the cross. Rather, God saved him as his enemies were confused about him. Jesus was taken up by God to Heaven.
  6. Jesus is called Isa (pronounced Eesa) in Arabic.
  7. Jesus performed miracles by the Will of God, like healing the blind and those with leprosy.
  8. Jesus prayed to the same God as all Prophets and we pray to.
  9. Jesus will return before the end of the world.
 

flysky

Member
The Islamic and Christian views of Jesus: a comparison

The person of Jesus or Isa in Arabic (peace be upon him) is of great significance in both Islam and Christianity. However, there are differences in terms of beliefs about the nature and life occurrences of this noble Messenger.

Source of information about Jesus in Islam

Most of the Islamic information about Jesus is actually found in the Quran.

The Quran was revealed by God to Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him), and memorized and written down in his lifetime. Today, anyone who calls him or herself a Muslim believes in the complete authenticity of the Quran as the original revealed guidance from God.

Source of information about Jesus in Christianity

Christians take their information about Jesus from the Bible, which includes the Old and New Testaments.

These contain four biblical narratives covering the life and death of Jesus. They have been written, according to tradition, respectively by Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. They are placed at the beginning of the New Testament and comprise close to half of it.

Encyclopedia Britannica notes that none of the sources of his life and work can be traced to Jesus himself; he did not leave a single known written word. Also, there are no contemporary accounts written of his life and death. What can be established about the historical Jesus depends almost without exception on Christian traditions, especially on the material used in the composition of the Gospels of Mark, Matthew, and Luke, which reflect the outlook of the later church and its faith in Jesus.

Below are the views of Islam and Christianity based on primary source texts and core beliefs.







ISLAM












1. Do Muslims believe he was a Messenger of One God? YES

Belief in all of the Prophets and Messengers of God is a fundamental article of faith in Islam. Thus, believing in Prophets Adam, Jesus, Moses, and Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon them) is a requirement for anyone who calls him or herself a Muslim. A person claiming to be a Muslim who, for instance, denies the Messengership of Jesus, is not considered a Muslim.

The Quran says in reference to the status of Jesus as a Messenger:

"The Messiah (Jesus), son of Mary, was no more than a Messenger before whom many Messengers have passed away; and his mother adhered wholly to truthfulness, and they both ate food (as other mortals do). See how We make Our signs clear to them; and see where they are turning away!" (Quran 5:75).



2. Do Muslims believe he was born of a Virgin Mother? YES

Like Christians, Muslims believe Mary, Maria in Spanish, or Maryam as she is called in Arabic, was a chaste, virgin woman, who miraculously gave birth to Jesus.

"Relate in the Book the story of Mary, when she withdrew from her family, to a place in the East. She screened herself from them; then We sent to her Our spirit (angel Gabriel) and he appeared before her as a man in all respects. She said: I seek refuge from you in God Most Gracious (come not near) if you do fear God. He said: Nay, I am only a Messenger from your Lord, to announce to you the gift of a pure son. She said: How shall I have a son, when no man has ever touched me, and I am not unchaste? He said: So it will be, your Lord says: ‘That is easy for Me; and We wish to appoint him as a sign unto men and a Mercy from Us': It was a matter so decreed" (Quran 19:16-21).



3. Do Muslims believe Jesus had a miraculous birth? YES

The Quran says:

"She (Mary) said: ‘O my Lord! How shall I have a son when no man has touched me.' He (God) said: ‘So (it will be) for God creates what He wills. When He has decreed something, He says to it only: ‘Be!'- and it is" (3:47).

It should also be noted about his birth that:

"Verily, the likeness of Jesus in God's Sight is the likeness of Adam. He (God) created him from dust, then (He) said to him: ‘Be!'-and he was" (Quran 3:59).



4. Do Muslims believe Jesus spoke in the cradle? YES

"Then she (Mary) pointed to him. They said: ‘How can we talk to one who is a child in the cradle?' He (Jesus) said: ‘Verily! I am a slave of God, He has given me the Scripture and made me a Prophet; " (19:29-30).

5. Do Muslims believe he performed miracles? YES

Muslims, like Christians believe Jesus performed miracles. But these were performed by the will and permission of God, Who has power and control over all things.

"Then will God say: ‘O Jesus the son of Mary! recount My favor to you and to your mother. Behold! I strengthened you with the Holy Spirit (the angel Gabriel) so that you did speak to the people in childhood and in maturity. Behold! I taught you the Book and Wisdom, the Law and the Gospel. And behold: you make out of clay, as it were, the figure of a bird, by My leave, and you breathe into it, and it becomes a bird by My leave, and you heal those born blind, and the lepers by My leave. And behold! you bring forth the dead by My leave. And behold! I did restrain the children of Israel from (violence to you) when you did show them the Clear Signs, and the unbelievers among them said: ‘This is nothing but evident magic' (5:110).



6. Do Muslims believe in the Trinity? NO

Muslims believe in the Absolute Oneness of God, Who is a Supreme Being free of human limitations, needs and wants. He has no partners in His Divinity. He is the Creator of everything and is completely separate from His creation.

God says in the Quran regarding the Trinity:

"People of the Book (Jews and Christians)! Do not exceed the limits in your religion, and attribute to God nothing except the truth. The Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, was only a Messenger of God, and His command that He conveyed unto Mary, and a spirit from Him. So believe in God and in His Messengers, and do not say: ‘God is a Trinity.' Give up this assertion; it would be better for you. God is indeed just One God. Far be it from His glory that He should have a son. To Him belongs all that is in the heavens and in the earth. God is sufficient for a guardian" (Quran 4:171).



7. Do Muslims believe that Jesus was the son of God? NO

"Say: "God is Unique! God, the Source [of everything]. He has not fathered anyone nor was He fathered, and there is nothing comparable to Him!" (Quran 112:1-4).

The Quran also states:

"Such was Jesus, the son of Mary; it is a statement of truth, about which they vainly dispute. It is not befitting to the majesty of God, that He should beget a son. Glory be to Him! When He determines a matter, He only says to it, ‘Be' and it is" (Quran 19:34-35).



8. Do Muslims believe Jesus was killed on the cross then resurrected? NO

"“They did not kill him, nor did they crucify him, but they thought they did.” (Quran 4:156) “God lifted him up to His presence. God is Almighty, All-Wise” (Quran 4:157) .


 

flysky

Member
The Islamic and Christian views of Jesus: a comparison



CHRISTIANITY



1. Do Christians believe Jesus was a human being and Messenger of God? YES & NO

With the exception of Unitarian Christians, who like all the early followers of Jesus, still do not believe in the Trinity, most Christians now believe in the Divinity of Jesus, which is connected to the belief in Trinity. They say he is the second member of the Triune God, the Son of the first part of the Triune God, and at the same time "fully" God in every respect.

2. Do Christians believe he was born of a Virgin Mother? YES

A chaste and pious human woman who gave birth to Jesus Christ, the second member of the Trinity, the Son of God, and at the same time "fully" God Almighty in every respect.

Christians believe however, that while she was a virgin, she was married to a man named Joseph (Bible: Matthew:1:18). According to Matthew 1:25, Joseph "kept her a virgin until she gave birth to a Son; and he called His name Jesus".

3. Do Christians believe he had a miraculous birth? YES

"Now the birth of Jesus Christ was as follows. When His mother Mary had been betrothed to Joseph, before they came together, she was found to be with child by the Holy Spirit" (Bible: Matthew 1:18)

4. Do Christians believe he performed miracles? YES

"And now, Lord, look upon their threats, and grant to thy servants to speak thy word with all boldness, while thou stretches out thy hand to heal, and sign and wonders are performed through the name of thy holy servant Jesus (Bible: Acts 4:30).

Christians believe that Jesus performed these miracles because he was the Son of God as well as the incarnation of God.

5. Do Christians believe in the Trinity? YES

With the exception of the Unitarian Christians, who do not believe in the Divinity of Christ, the Trinity, according to the Catholic encyclopedia, is the term used for the central doctrine of the Christian religion. The belief is that in the unity of the Godhead there are Three Persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. These three Persons or beings are distinct from each another, while being similar in character: uncreated and omnipotent.

The First Vatican Council has explained the meaning to be attributed to the term mystery in theology. It lays down that a mystery is a truth which we are not merely incapable of discovering apart from Divine Revelation, but which, even when revealed, remains "hidden by the veil of faith and enveloped, so to speak, by a kind of darkness" (Const., "De fide. cath.", iv). The First Vatican Council further defined that the Christian Faith contains mysteries strictly so called (can. 4). All theologians admit that the doctrine of the Trinity is of the number of these. The Catholic Encyclopedia notes that of all revealed truths, this is the most impenetrable to reason.

6. Do Christians believe that Jesus was the son of God? YES

"For God so loved the world that He gave His only Son that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life. For God sent the Son into the world, not to condemn the world, but that the world might be saved through Him (Bible: John 3:16).

However, it is interesting to note that the term "son of God" is used in other parts of the Bible to refer to Adam (Bible: Luke 3:38), Israel (Bible: Exodus 4:22) and David (Bible: Psalms 2:7) as well. The creatures of God are usually referred to in the Bible as children of God.



The role of Paul of Tarsus in shaping this belief and the belief in Trinity

The notion of Jesus as son of God is something that was established under the influence of Paul of Tarsus (originally named Saul), who had been an enemy of Jesus, but later changed course and joined the disciples after the departure of Jesus.

Later, however, he initiated a number of changes into early Christian teachings, in contradiction, for instance, to disciples like Barnabas, who believed in the Oneness of God and who had actually lived and met with Jesus.

Paul is considered by a number of Christian scholars to be the father of Christianity due to his additions of the following ideas:
    • that Jesus is the son of God,
    • the concept of Atonement,
    • the renunciation of the Law of the Torah.
Paul did these things in hopes of winning over the Gentiles (non-Jewish people). His letters are another of the primary sources of information on Jesus according to the Christian tradition.




The original followers of Prophet Jesus opposed these blatant misrepresentations of the message of Jesus. They struggled to reject the notion of the Divinity of Jesus for close to 200 years.

One person who was an original follower of Jesus was Barnabas. He was a Jew born in Cyrus and a successful preacher of the teachings of Jesus. Because of his closeness to Jesus, he was an important member of the small group of disciples in Jerusalem who had had gathered together following the disappearance of Jesus.

The question of Jesus's nature, origin and relationship with God was not raised amongst Barnabas and the small group of disciples. Jesus was considered a man miraculously endowed by God. Nothing in the words of Jesus or the events in his life led them to modify this view.

The Gospel of Barnabas was accepted as a Canonical Gospel in the Churches of Alexandria till 325 CE Iranaeus (130-200) wrote in support of pure monotheism and opposed Paul for injecting into Christianity doctrines of the pagan Roman religion and Platonic philosophy. He quoted extensively from the Gospel of Barnabas in support of his views. This indicates that the Gospel of Barnabas was in circulation in the first and second centuries of Christianity.

In 325 (CE), a council of Christian leaders met at Nicaea and made Paul's beliefs officially part of Christian doctrine. It also ordered that all original Gospels in Hebrew script which contradicted Paul's beliefs should be destroyed. An edict was issued that anyone in possession of these Gospels would be put to death.

The Gospel of Barnabas has miraculously survived though.



7. Do Christians believe he was killed on the cross? YES

This is a core Christian belief and it relates to the concept of atonement. According to this belief, Jesus died to save mankind from sin. However, this is not stated explicitly in the four gospels which form the primary source texts of Christianity. It is found, however, in Romans 6:8,9.

Christians believe Jesus was spat on, cut, humiliated, kicked, striped and finally hung up on the cross to endure a slow and painful death.

According, to Christian belief, the original sin of Adam and Eve of eating from the forbidden tree was so great that God could not forgive it by simply willing it, rather it was necessary to erase it with the blood of a sinless, innocent Jesus.



 

flysky

Member
Resurrection

The four Gospels and the Epistles of St. Paul are the main sources of Christianity which discuss the Resurrection of Jesus after his crucifixion. According to St. Matthew, Jesus appeared to the holy women, and again on a mountain in Galilee. Mark's Gospel tells a different story: Jesus was seen by Mary Magdalene, by the two disciples at Emmaus, and the Eleven before his Ascension into heaven.

Luke's Gospel says Jesus walked with the disciples to Emmaus, appeared to Peter and to the assembled disciples in Jerusalem. In John's Gospel, Jesus appeared to Mary Magdalene, to the ten Apostles on Easter Sunday, to the Eleven a week later, and to seven disciples at the Sea of Tiberias.

Another account of the resurrection by St. Paul is found in Bible: Corinthians 15: 3-8.

According to Christian belief, Resurrection is a manifestation of God's justice, Who exalted Christ to a life of glory, as Christ had humbled himself unto death (Phil., 2: 8-9). This event also completes the mystery of Christian salvation and redemption. The death of Jesus frees believers from sin, and with his resurrection, he restores to them the most important privileges lost by sin (Bible: Romans 4:25).

More importantly, the belief in the resurrection of Jesus indicates Christian acknowledgment of Christ as the immortal God, the cause of believers' own resurrection (Bible: I Corinthians 4: 21; Phil., 3:20-21), as well as the model and the support of a new life of grace (Bible: Romans 4: 4-6; 9-11).
 
Top