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Curious abt Gaudiya Vaishnavism..many questions :)
- Thread starter Maija
- Start date
The same can be said for Swami Tapasyananda's, Eknath Easwaran's, and Paramahansa Yogananda's interpretations. They are much more liberal and universalist. For example, Swami Tapasyananda's 4.11:
"O Partha! Whosoever worship Me through whatsoever path, I verily accept and bless them in that way. Men everywhere follow My path."
Srila Prabhupada's:
"As all surrender unto Me, I reward them accordingly. Everyone follows My path in all respects, O son of Pritha."
Bhagavad Gita 4.11 Srila Prabhupada's and Sri Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakur commentaries.
Bhagavad-Gita: Chapter 4, Verse 11 with commentaries by the Four Authorized Vaisnava Sampradayas.
On the whole, these are all fairly liberal interpretations, in my view.
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Maybe all of the above?
I always thought it just meant "hail" ..for some reason, forgive me I'm new to this.
So what does "Jai" mean? Is it similar to Hare?
Nothing to forgive.
Jai is Hindi and Gujarati and comes from Sanskrit jaya, meaning victory.Jai is pronounced close to 'jeh', rather than 'jaaay' or like 'sky'; jaya is pronounced like 'jah-yah'.
My name is Hindi for 'Victory (to) Vishnu'. In Sanskrit it would be Jayanarayana.
Vrindavana Das
Active Member
Harī = One who 'takes-away'. As Supreme Lord 'takes away' our miseries and sufferings, He is referred to as Harī.
Harā = Supreme pleasure potency of the Supreme Lord. Meaning, Rādhā.
Hare = Supreme Pleasure Potency of Harī - 'Harā', when addressed as Hare, helps us in reaching the Supreme Lord - Harī.
Kṛṣṇa/Rāma = Form of addressing directly the Lord and they mean "the highest pleasure eternal."
The three words, namely Harā, Kṛṣṇa, and Rāma, are transcendental seeds of the mahā-mantra, and the chanting is a spiritual call for the Lord and His internal energy Harā for giving protect the conditioned soul. This chanting is exactly like the genuine cry of a child for its mother. Mother Harā helps the devotee achieve the grace of the Supreme Father, Harī or Kṛṣṇa, and the Lord reveals Himself to the devotee who chants this mantra sincerely.
Therefore no other means of spiritual realization is as effective in this age of quarrel and hypocrisy as the chanting of the maha-mantra:
Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna, Krishna Krishna, Hare Hare,
Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare.
So, you are right, it is:
Rādhe Kṛṣṇa Rādhe Kṛṣṇa
Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Rādhe Rādhe
Rādhe Rāma Rādhe Rāma
Rāma Rāma Rādhe Rādhe
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So, you are right, it is:
Rādhe Kṛṣṇa Rādhe Kṛṣṇa
Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Rādhe Rādhe
Rādhe Rāma Rādhe Rāma
Rāma Rāma Rādhe Rādhe
I love being a geek. :clap2:
Marble
Rolling Marble
I read about the child abuse cases too, but I think Prabhupada himself never abused anyone.
Shuddhasattva
Well-Known Member
I don't believe he did either - aside from his spiteful and ignorant words. But he set up and helped perpetuate an abuse machine. When I was growing up in Los Angeles, my parents used to take me to the ISKcon temple nearby, but this stopped as the abuses and excesses became more and more apparent. There were... a lot of problems in the community.
ISKcon has gained a reputation for itself, not at all unjustified, for child abuse, prostitution, drugs & arms trafficking. Seriously.
ISKcon has gained a reputation for itself, not at all unjustified, for child abuse, prostitution, drugs & arms trafficking. Seriously.
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Shântoham
Vedantin
And by posting all over the internet evangelical tidbits such as:
...However the Mayavadi philosophy is very, very, very dangerous. It is the Mayavadi philosophy which has converted the world into the demonic godless hell that we are currently living in. Because the Mayavadi philosophy is a perversion of the Vedanta philosophy. It is based on Sankacharayas commentary on the Vedanta Sutra, and Sankacharaya is an incarnation of Lord Shiva and there is no one, except Lord Visnu, in this universe who can come anywhere near Lord Shiva in terms of intelligence and ability. So Lord Shiva was ordered by Krishna to go to the material world and take birth as Sankacharaya and to present covered Buddhism, a philosophy that appears to be the Vedanta philosophy from the Vedas but which in actuality is practically the same as Godless Buddhism.
So what Sankacharaya has very expertly done in creating the Mayavadi philosophy is to take God out of the Vedanta. He transformed it in such a way as to put all stress on the impersonal, formless aspect of the the Supreme and completely eradicated any references at all to the personal forms of the Lord This is because at the time when Sankacharaya was preaching in India the country was full of godless Buddhists. And his mission was to attract the atheistic Buddhists to a religion based on the Vedas. But demons are not interested in God and will not become part of any religion that involves service to or surrender to God. So Sankacaharaya took the service to God and the surrender to God out of the Vedanta and instead preaches that it is all one and everyone is god
So this Mayavadi philosophy is very dangerous because it is really good philosophy. It is the Vedanta philosophy with a twist. And that twist means to annihilate god, to kill god So the Mayavadi philosophy is Vedanta for demons. Demons do not want to surrender to God or serve God but they may like discussing intellectually stimulating philosophy. So that is what the Mayavadi philosophy provides. Good philosophy with the conclusion that there is no god, there is no supreme, there is no controller above us and everyone can be god. That is EXACTLY want the demons want to hear
So this Mayavadi philosophy is the greatest poison because it contaminates thoughtful people and once they have heard this very attractive philosophy that confirms and encourages their demonic and materialistic activities they are no longer able to understand the actual Vedanta, Krishna consciousness. That is why Lord Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu constantly warned: mayavadi bhasya suni ye se haya sarva nasa: Anyone who hears the Mayavadi philosophy is doomed.
India is doomed already because it has been saturated in the Mayavadi philosophy for so long and this doom and gloom in the form of the Mayavadi philosophy has spread all over the world. But not to worry. Krishna is much more powerful. Chant:
Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare
Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare
And be happy....
This is not the Iskcon founder speaking but just one of his minions.
...However the Mayavadi philosophy is very, very, very dangerous. It is the Mayavadi philosophy which has converted the world into the demonic godless hell that we are currently living in. Because the Mayavadi philosophy is a perversion of the Vedanta philosophy. It is based on Sankacharayas commentary on the Vedanta Sutra, and Sankacharaya is an incarnation of Lord Shiva and there is no one, except Lord Visnu, in this universe who can come anywhere near Lord Shiva in terms of intelligence and ability. So Lord Shiva was ordered by Krishna to go to the material world and take birth as Sankacharaya and to present covered Buddhism, a philosophy that appears to be the Vedanta philosophy from the Vedas but which in actuality is practically the same as Godless Buddhism.
So what Sankacharaya has very expertly done in creating the Mayavadi philosophy is to take God out of the Vedanta. He transformed it in such a way as to put all stress on the impersonal, formless aspect of the the Supreme and completely eradicated any references at all to the personal forms of the Lord This is because at the time when Sankacharaya was preaching in India the country was full of godless Buddhists. And his mission was to attract the atheistic Buddhists to a religion based on the Vedas. But demons are not interested in God and will not become part of any religion that involves service to or surrender to God. So Sankacaharaya took the service to God and the surrender to God out of the Vedanta and instead preaches that it is all one and everyone is god
So this Mayavadi philosophy is very dangerous because it is really good philosophy. It is the Vedanta philosophy with a twist. And that twist means to annihilate god, to kill god So the Mayavadi philosophy is Vedanta for demons. Demons do not want to surrender to God or serve God but they may like discussing intellectually stimulating philosophy. So that is what the Mayavadi philosophy provides. Good philosophy with the conclusion that there is no god, there is no supreme, there is no controller above us and everyone can be god. That is EXACTLY want the demons want to hear
So this Mayavadi philosophy is the greatest poison because it contaminates thoughtful people and once they have heard this very attractive philosophy that confirms and encourages their demonic and materialistic activities they are no longer able to understand the actual Vedanta, Krishna consciousness. That is why Lord Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu constantly warned: mayavadi bhasya suni ye se haya sarva nasa: Anyone who hears the Mayavadi philosophy is doomed.
India is doomed already because it has been saturated in the Mayavadi philosophy for so long and this doom and gloom in the form of the Mayavadi philosophy has spread all over the world. But not to worry. Krishna is much more powerful. Chant:
Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare
Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare
And be happy....
This is not the Iskcon founder speaking but just one of his minions.
Wannabe Yogi
Well-Known Member
Nobody said he did. Still many said he should have seen danger signs and he looked the other way. He choose those people to be in charge, not one but many. He was a very poor judge of character.
Wannabe Yogi
Well-Known Member
With all of my Criticism of Iskcon and all the bigoted crap being posted by one of its members. It was very helpful for me to see this Video of happy Iskcon folks in worship of the lord Krishna. Gaudiya Vaishnavism is still a beautiful path, that leads to God.
[youtube]T7DOny-5TFE[/youtube]
Dozens of Hindu Converts at the New Temple,Omsk-Russia - YouTube
[youtube]T7DOny-5TFE[/youtube]
Dozens of Hindu Converts at the New Temple,Omsk-Russia - YouTube
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Marble
Rolling Marble
That proofs he was not realized.
Jnanis can see into the depts of one's soul.
Did ISKCON ever have to pay compensations to victims?
Not that I tink money can ease the pain, but persons who were victims of sexual abuse during their childhood may undergo a therapy and psychiatrists do not work for nothing...
Finally settled ... about 15 million, a long fight indeed. I googled it for Russia ... still some controversies, unfortunately ...
Maija
Active Member
I must admit I have a friend who is an iskcon devotee and who was my first inspiration (due to her and her familys' beautiful love and intense devotion to Sri Krishna.)
They always seemed down to sing, dance & pray.. :bow:
That's what started me on this path.. You guys are what helps fuel it.
HARIBOL! -- I have a lot of new information to start journaling about.
I am VERY excited -- yay so much reading, online magazines...
AND I'm really excited about this and THIS reading material ..
Now, it's my turn to say it Life is good just chant..
Love & Light
Seek God well
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Vrindavana Das
Active Member
We should bear in mind that in this Kali-yuga, we will not be able to find the strength to perform Harinama alone. This is stated by Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu as well as His personal associate, Srila Bhaktivinode Thakura:
In this Kali-yuga, we should perform congregational chanting. If we go to chant alone in the mountains, Harinama will be very difficult. You should go on chanting in a congregation, with devotees, uttering the name of Krishna. In the company of bonafide sādhus, you will get the strength to do Harināma. If you do it alone, you will not find the strength. You will find so many devotees in temples are always engaged in this congregational chanting because they know this is the only procedure for this Kali-yuga. So with groups of such devotees, you should chant Harinama and your remembrance will continue and continue.
If I remain in a secluded place and I have impressions in my mind of lakhs and lakhs of births, I may not remain there. However, if I always keep the company of sādhus who are speaking about Krishna, then I will always be hearing about Krishna and I shall always carry Him within me. Every place I go I will have to speak about Krishna. In this way, I am compelled to think about Krishna and I shall not have time to think about any other topic. Those who are listening are increasing my service. In this way, we can have concentration. This is the process.
Perform congregational chanting with devotees, not with those who are in the business of selling this Harināma and spiritual discourses: "Give me $1000 and I will give a discourse." The ultimate target is Bhagavān. Take absolute shelter of Harināma and go on chanting. Krishna is sustaining, He is maintaining. So, you should have firm belief.
ekaki amara, nahi paya bala
hari-nama-sankirtane
(from saranagati by Srila Bhaktivinode Thakura)
hari-nama-sankirtane
(from saranagati by Srila Bhaktivinode Thakura)
In this Kali-yuga, we should perform congregational chanting. If we go to chant alone in the mountains, Harinama will be very difficult. You should go on chanting in a congregation, with devotees, uttering the name of Krishna. In the company of bonafide sādhus, you will get the strength to do Harināma. If you do it alone, you will not find the strength. You will find so many devotees in temples are always engaged in this congregational chanting because they know this is the only procedure for this Kali-yuga. So with groups of such devotees, you should chant Harinama and your remembrance will continue and continue.
If I remain in a secluded place and I have impressions in my mind of lakhs and lakhs of births, I may not remain there. However, if I always keep the company of sādhus who are speaking about Krishna, then I will always be hearing about Krishna and I shall always carry Him within me. Every place I go I will have to speak about Krishna. In this way, I am compelled to think about Krishna and I shall not have time to think about any other topic. Those who are listening are increasing my service. In this way, we can have concentration. This is the process.
Perform congregational chanting with devotees, not with those who are in the business of selling this Harināma and spiritual discourses: "Give me $1000 and I will give a discourse." The ultimate target is Bhagavān. Take absolute shelter of Harināma and go on chanting. Krishna is sustaining, He is maintaining. So, you should have firm belief.
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ratikala
Istha gosthi
dear prabhu ji
we are only fooling ourselves and possibly damaging others if we think that we can go in at an advanced level , this is the cause of the many downfalls which are so prevailant in kali yuga , ... I hate to say it but look at all the scandals that befall many traditions , particularly in new converts who think that they are above the rules and regulations and lack the true humility to fully surrender , who have not completely purified the the mind or heart .
therefore it is dangerous to teach on subjects which will be missconstrued by the impure , infact it is irresponcible .
but from personal experience of many years of deity service I can only say that before that spontanious love can truely surface one must go through years if not lifetimes of humble service before one is truely pure enough to realise the nature of the deity and that only when one realises ones true position can one even begin to approach some subjects covered in raganuga bhakti ,
just as a wise parent does not leve a child open to temptation , a wise guru dose not instruct upon somthing above the level of the adherants comprehension.
if one wants to practice deity yoga one should cultivate the qualities of hanuman the fully surrendered servant of lord rama , or chaitanya mahaprabhu , the advocate of pure devotion . .... then when such devine love spontaniously occurs .....all willl be revealed
will try later , thanks .
yes this may be so on the premmis that raganuga bhakti is concidered to be a highly advanced practice and in some respects a spontanious flowering of selfless love or prema . however there is also a reason for not teaching such advanced levels openly , that is simply because it is the typical nature of the un pious kali yuga mentality to want to buypass the ground work of mental purification and go streight for the perceived cherry on the cake ,
we are only fooling ourselves and possibly damaging others if we think that we can go in at an advanced level , this is the cause of the many downfalls which are so prevailant in kali yuga , ... I hate to say it but look at all the scandals that befall many traditions , particularly in new converts who think that they are above the rules and regulations and lack the true humility to fully surrender , who have not completely purified the the mind or heart .
therefore it is dangerous to teach on subjects which will be missconstrued by the impure , infact it is irresponcible .
yes but even here there are levels of deity yoga which should be taught and higher levels which should be reserved for advanced practitioners .
I canot know what or how you have been told this , ...or exactly what the iscon line on this is ?
but from personal experience of many years of deity service I can only say that before that spontanious love can truely surface one must go through years if not lifetimes of humble service before one is truely pure enough to realise the nature of the deity and that only when one realises ones true position can one even begin to approach some subjects covered in raganuga bhakti ,
just as a wise parent does not leve a child open to temptation , a wise guru dose not instruct upon somthing above the level of the adherants comprehension.
if one wants to practice deity yoga one should cultivate the qualities of hanuman the fully surrendered servant of lord rama , or chaitanya mahaprabhu , the advocate of pure devotion . .... then when such devine love spontaniously occurs .....all willl be revealed
Maija
Active Member
Vrindavana Das --
Your reply really made a lot of sense, in that respect, I'm really trying to find if not create a spiritual community around me. I've always clung to a group of spiritual aspirants in my local area and attempted and often seen growth in that..Currently, the practice I had was not speaking to me, the Baha'i writings though beautiful, were not appearing dull & lifeless..I knew I needed change and accepted this.
I keep hearing about KALI-YUGA, again, one of the terms that I have to read more abt.
Thank you for your wise wisdom...
ratikala --
What exactly does it mean to seethe deities are of our own nature? To see qualities that we have potential to within them however our own are unmanifested..?
This is a difficult concept for many I am sure, I just want to make sure I know what we are talking about..
Thanks in advance and Haribol!
<3
Your reply really made a lot of sense, in that respect, I'm really trying to find if not create a spiritual community around me. I've always clung to a group of spiritual aspirants in my local area and attempted and often seen growth in that..Currently, the practice I had was not speaking to me, the Baha'i writings though beautiful, were not appearing dull & lifeless..I knew I needed change and accepted this.
I keep hearing about KALI-YUGA, again, one of the terms that I have to read more abt.
Thank you for your wise wisdom...
ratikala --
What exactly does it mean to seethe deities are of our own nature? To see qualities that we have potential to within them however our own are unmanifested..?
This is a difficult concept for many I am sure, I just want to make sure I know what we are talking about..
Thanks in advance and Haribol!
<3
Shuddhasattva
Well-Known Member
Looks like Apophenia floated this idea, although I would certainly consider Ratikala-ji's answer coming from a worthy perspective.
If you'd like, I'll field these questions.
ratikala
Istha gosthi
dear maija ,
yes , when we understand the position we are in a lot of things make a lot more sence , something that very much colours the way that gaudia math and iscon structure their method of teaching laying a lot of empasis on the practice of chanting and kirtan as a prescribed method of worship for this age .
the main problem with this being kali yuga is the fact that even the spiritualy enclined have great difficulty focusing on the lord , being that it is an age of impurity . we are sarounded by hypocracy , corruption , greed and self centeredness . It is hard for us to find the pure motivation to practice and to free our selves from the concerns of the material existance which sarrounds us .
it is for these reasons that gaudia math and iscon advocate congregational chanting and keeping close association with other devotees as it increases our devotional attitude and helps us to distance ourselves from over indulgance in material concerns
the chanting of the maha mantra is prescribed as the kaliyuga dharma clensing the heart and linking the mind with god .
and through close association with devotees of the lord and through the folowing of simple principles we are in a better enviroment to develop a deep love of god ,
..some how we got on to a paralell between buddhistpractice and raganuga bhakti...
there is a practice in buddhism by which one visualises ones deity , where by familiarising oneself with the qualitys of the deity .
and it is true to say that we all posess the potential to posess such qualities such as compassion and wisdom , and that through such practices we might awake such inate qualities.
but within bhakti yoga (devotional service) the process is not quite the same .
I can only simply describe the love of a vaisnava for radha krsna (or any deity form)
by saying that if one deeply loves a personality , ones love is such that one would not want to be that personality , one would want to be eternaly within the presence of that personality, wone would hold that personality in such high regard that one would do anything to please , ... this is the atitude of the devotee .
how ever the inate nature we awake from the practice of bhakti is prema , pure selfless love of god ....
and from this comes true surrender :bow:
only when a devotee reaches a certain stage within their bhakti sadhana will they be in a position to understand and benifit from such teachings .
to many a western mind it might sound condecending to say you are not ready for this , but that is simply a reaction of our kaliyuga minds !!!!
this is a complicated subject and easily missinturpreted , so I have tried to simplify my explanation, I will post later and return to one of your original questions.
hari bol
yes , when we understand the position we are in a lot of things make a lot more sence , something that very much colours the way that gaudia math and iscon structure their method of teaching laying a lot of empasis on the practice of chanting and kirtan as a prescribed method of worship for this age .
the main problem with this being kali yuga is the fact that even the spiritualy enclined have great difficulty focusing on the lord , being that it is an age of impurity . we are sarounded by hypocracy , corruption , greed and self centeredness . It is hard for us to find the pure motivation to practice and to free our selves from the concerns of the material existance which sarrounds us .
it is for these reasons that gaudia math and iscon advocate congregational chanting and keeping close association with other devotees as it increases our devotional attitude and helps us to distance ourselves from over indulgance in material concerns
the chanting of the maha mantra is prescribed as the kaliyuga dharma clensing the heart and linking the mind with god .
and through close association with devotees of the lord and through the folowing of simple principles we are in a better enviroment to develop a deep love of god ,
I think apophenia slightly missunderstood something I had said ?
..some how we got on to a paralell between buddhistpractice and raganuga bhakti...
there is a practice in buddhism by which one visualises ones deity , where by familiarising oneself with the qualitys of the deity .
and it is true to say that we all posess the potential to posess such qualities such as compassion and wisdom , and that through such practices we might awake such inate qualities.
but within bhakti yoga (devotional service) the process is not quite the same .
I can only simply describe the love of a vaisnava for radha krsna (or any deity form)
by saying that if one deeply loves a personality , ones love is such that one would not want to be that personality , one would want to be eternaly within the presence of that personality, wone would hold that personality in such high regard that one would do anything to please , ... this is the atitude of the devotee .
how ever the inate nature we awake from the practice of bhakti is prema , pure selfless love of god ....
and from this comes true surrender :bow:
yes some how we got on to the subject of raganuga bhakti which is a highly realised state of devotion which is taught and discussed but only on a higher level , this is often seen by the spiritualy inmature as being restrictive , but in truth it is only natural .
only when a devotee reaches a certain stage within their bhakti sadhana will they be in a position to understand and benifit from such teachings .
to many a western mind it might sound condecending to say you are not ready for this , but that is simply a reaction of our kaliyuga minds !!!!
this is a complicated subject and easily missinturpreted , so I have tried to simplify my explanation, I will post later and return to one of your original questions.
hari bol