sojourner
Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
More people could drive in the bisexual lanes around college campuses...
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The Physiology of Homosexuality
- Thread starter John Boanerges
- Start date
methylatedghosts
Can't brain. Has dumb.
Let me clarify myself. I think you may have missed my earlier posts
I have, in a way, travelled the breadth of human sexuality. I have seen it from one end of the spectrum to the other. The only reason that I have been given for homosexuality being a "sin" is that it's perceived as being "icky" - #1 on your dictionary list, there. It's the only one that I have been able to pull out of people's arguments that kind of makes sense.
Recent studies on disgust ("The Yuck Factor" New Scientist, 14 July, 2012, page 34-37) show that perceptions are affected by bad smells.
"Icky" is the only reason for viewing homosexuality as a "sin" that I can see makes any sort of sense.
Edit:
I'm not saying that it's justified, but just that there is a link. Another quote from the article: "To a large extent, what is disgusting or not is in the mind of the beholder"
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Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber
Actually, plant estrogens and human estrogens are different. Soy estrogen has zero effects on the body in terms of sexual orientation or feminization. Actually even human estrogen is a broad term for various types of estrogen that serve different functions. Isoflaven though is actually pretty popular in the male-to-female transsexual community, with those who believe chugging carton-after-carton of soy milk will feminize their body, and those who laugh at the gullibility of those who actually try it even though there is plenty of research that shows it doesn't work.
While it is true that exposure to various chemicals, neurotransmitters, hormones, etc., can effect the offsprings sexual orientation, to go by those claims alone is to ignore the other half of the research that has shown other factors, such as birth order and environment. For all my studies on the subject, the best conclusions by various authors, psychologist, psychiatrists, etc., is that sexual orientation is the result of a varying degree of nature and nurture. This is because there are many studies that do point towards a genetic cause, and there are many studies that do point towards and environmental cause.
Also there is nothing to indicate there is an overall rise in the percentage of the population that is homosexual. There are however anthropological and historical accounts of places where homosexuality was not even a concept, tolerated, or even criminalized. Of which here in America it may seem there are more homosexuals due to two primary reasons; a very large population which brings a larger number of individuals even though the percentage may be the same, and it was illegal to be homosexual in many places less than 100 years ago. Even today there are those who believe we should execute homosexuals via public stoning.
And really, if sexual orientation was so easy to explain then there would not be entire divisions of psychology, sociology, and biology that study it. The information and data concerning the psychological aspects alone could easily fill a small library. And not too mention that genetic studies and manipulations is still a science that is in its infancy, and there is still much more to be learned and figured out before it gets to a level of being able to influence sexual orientation.
While it is true that exposure to various chemicals, neurotransmitters, hormones, etc., can effect the offsprings sexual orientation, to go by those claims alone is to ignore the other half of the research that has shown other factors, such as birth order and environment. For all my studies on the subject, the best conclusions by various authors, psychologist, psychiatrists, etc., is that sexual orientation is the result of a varying degree of nature and nurture. This is because there are many studies that do point towards a genetic cause, and there are many studies that do point towards and environmental cause.
Also there is nothing to indicate there is an overall rise in the percentage of the population that is homosexual. There are however anthropological and historical accounts of places where homosexuality was not even a concept, tolerated, or even criminalized. Of which here in America it may seem there are more homosexuals due to two primary reasons; a very large population which brings a larger number of individuals even though the percentage may be the same, and it was illegal to be homosexual in many places less than 100 years ago. Even today there are those who believe we should execute homosexuals via public stoning.
And really, if sexual orientation was so easy to explain then there would not be entire divisions of psychology, sociology, and biology that study it. The information and data concerning the psychological aspects alone could easily fill a small library. And not too mention that genetic studies and manipulations is still a science that is in its infancy, and there is still much more to be learned and figured out before it gets to a level of being able to influence sexual orientation.
Trey of Diamonds
Well-Known Member
Maybe. But I got a distinct "Love the sinner, hate the sin" feel from him and I really hate that saying. Plus, his concept of homosexuality being a birth defect is scary. It doesn't open the door to reconciliation, it opens the door to medical experimentation with the goal of eradicating homosexuality.
sojourner
Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
That's what I said -- but with more Revoltingestesque vitriol...
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber
That may be the intent of the OP, or not, but considering there are so many more plausible factors than just genetic I doubt it would be possible to eradicate homosexuality through genetic modifications. Afterall the brain is shaped and formed by life experiences as well as genetics, and even though I kind of got the same vibe from the OP, such a scenario is so far away that hopefully most people realize there is nothing with or defective with homosexuals by the time such a modification could be performed.
Trey of Diamonds
Well-Known Member
Totally agree. But if the haters even think they can eradicate homosexuality they will jump on the chance. The damage they could do in the attempt is what's scary to me.
On the flip side, I wonder if we could isolate the Fundamentalist gene? Just think what the world would be like without Fundies...
John Boanerges
Preterist
Just to be clear, my post was meant to be more of a message to fundamentalist Christians than the 1.7%* of the population that is gay. (*the latest figure quoted here: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/04/07/gay-population-us-estimate_n_846348.html )
Apparently, the percentage on this forum is higher. Maybe that's why more Christians haven't chimed in, eh? Have you run them all off? LOL
Once again, I understand that no one wants to be considered abnormal but, sadly, that's exactly how the majority of the population views homosexuality. If you don't believe that is true, then you are in a deep state of denial.
The media and Internet are only going to take the acceptance of the homosexual lifestyle so far. Gays have enjoyed a rather sudden surge in acceptance thanks to these vehicles. But...this will only go so far. A war is coming and the Chick-fil-A debacle is the warning sign that it is coming.
Sitting in the middle, I can see this happening. The LGBT community is getting bolder and bolder and their opponents are getting very tired of it. In fact, the tolerance for everything (government, religion, the medical establishment, etc.) is rapidly diminishing.
How do you defuse this bomb? By pouring more gas on the fire? Do you really think that the 1.7% is going to convince the 98.3% that homosexuality is "normal" without their understanding the physiology of sexual orientation?
THAT was the point of the post. You can read about the development of the brain, the hypothalamus, the sexually dimorphic nucleus, the suprachiasmic nucleus, DHEA, estrone, adrenal function, xenoestrogens, etc etc. til the cows come home and, yes, no one can say for sure where the 1.7% percent comes from, but...it is a small percentage and most people will use that data to suggest that it is "abnormal" to be homosexual, which is then backed up by the verses in the Bible that so many in this country hold near and dear. (Leviticus 18:22, Leviticus 20:13, Romans 1:24-27, 1 Corinthians 6:9-10, 1 Timothy 1:8-11, Genesis 19:1-29).
So...how do you really think things are going to go from here? Do you think that gay liberation will parallel that of women's suffrage and civil rights for Black Americans? Really? I'm afraid that is like comparing apples and screwdrivers.
No, I'm afraid that you are about to see the rise of those who are "tired of being brow-beaten by outspoken minorities". This is the political climate of the US right now. Conservatives are about to mobilize in a unprecedented way. The backlash that has already occurred from the Chick-fil-A situation is a good example. I really don't think the LGBT community is going to like the end result. (Hollywood/"Hollyweird" is next.)
The course is clear: Educate the masses, especially the fundamentalist Christian community, about the true nature of homosexuality...that it is not a choice...and go from there. I know that the LGBT community has been saying this for quite some time, BUT...the masses are not getting the message. We need ministers and other leaders of all religions to understand this and explain it to their followers. Otherwise, people are going to continue to look at gays like they did epileptics in the past...as demon possessed.
Apparently, the percentage on this forum is higher. Maybe that's why more Christians haven't chimed in, eh? Have you run them all off? LOL
Once again, I understand that no one wants to be considered abnormal but, sadly, that's exactly how the majority of the population views homosexuality. If you don't believe that is true, then you are in a deep state of denial.
The media and Internet are only going to take the acceptance of the homosexual lifestyle so far. Gays have enjoyed a rather sudden surge in acceptance thanks to these vehicles. But...this will only go so far. A war is coming and the Chick-fil-A debacle is the warning sign that it is coming.
Sitting in the middle, I can see this happening. The LGBT community is getting bolder and bolder and their opponents are getting very tired of it. In fact, the tolerance for everything (government, religion, the medical establishment, etc.) is rapidly diminishing.
How do you defuse this bomb? By pouring more gas on the fire? Do you really think that the 1.7% is going to convince the 98.3% that homosexuality is "normal" without their understanding the physiology of sexual orientation?
THAT was the point of the post. You can read about the development of the brain, the hypothalamus, the sexually dimorphic nucleus, the suprachiasmic nucleus, DHEA, estrone, adrenal function, xenoestrogens, etc etc. til the cows come home and, yes, no one can say for sure where the 1.7% percent comes from, but...it is a small percentage and most people will use that data to suggest that it is "abnormal" to be homosexual, which is then backed up by the verses in the Bible that so many in this country hold near and dear. (Leviticus 18:22, Leviticus 20:13, Romans 1:24-27, 1 Corinthians 6:9-10, 1 Timothy 1:8-11, Genesis 19:1-29).
So...how do you really think things are going to go from here? Do you think that gay liberation will parallel that of women's suffrage and civil rights for Black Americans? Really? I'm afraid that is like comparing apples and screwdrivers.
No, I'm afraid that you are about to see the rise of those who are "tired of being brow-beaten by outspoken minorities". This is the political climate of the US right now. Conservatives are about to mobilize in a unprecedented way. The backlash that has already occurred from the Chick-fil-A situation is a good example. I really don't think the LGBT community is going to like the end result. (Hollywood/"Hollyweird" is next.)
The course is clear: Educate the masses, especially the fundamentalist Christian community, about the true nature of homosexuality...that it is not a choice...and go from there. I know that the LGBT community has been saying this for quite some time, BUT...the masses are not getting the message. We need ministers and other leaders of all religions to understand this and explain it to their followers. Otherwise, people are going to continue to look at gays like they did epileptics in the past...as demon possessed.
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Trey of Diamonds
Well-Known Member
How exactly do you propose to educate people who have no desire to learn?
sojourner
Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
And so, of course, that makes the view of "abnormal" the correct one, and we should simply throw up our hands and say, "Oh, well... We can't all and some don't. That's just How It Is."
And you'll be right in the complicit thick of it.
You're not sitting in the middle. Any more than the Catholic Church was "sitting in the middle" during the holocaust.
Telling folks that it's caused by toxic ground water isn't helping.
And guess where Xy will be? Onthe fringe, with the group that needs liberation, just as it always has. The wacko fundigelicals can pish and moan all they want to, but there are far more reasonable than unreasonable people in this country who know how to pull a voting lever. It can be quite easily shown that the ones doing most of the oppressing in this country aren't the liberals...
But give them real education, not simply a shifting of blame. The real education is that homosexuality is NORMAL.
This one plans to push for full inclusion, based upon solid biblical exegesis.
Skwim
Veteran Member
General posting protocol here is to furnish some kind of evidence for unusual claims. In such cases it is usually a link or two. Telling people to go look it up seldom does the trick.
BTW, welcome to the site.
averageJOE
zombie
This entire thread needs a giant facepalm.
-Peacemaker-
.45 Cal
This is laughable. There is no equating unconditional love with condoning certain behaviors deemed sinful by the Christian God. In fact, it would be downright hateful to keep telling someone engaged in sin that what they are doing is just dandy.
Just like Christians condone eating shellfish, tattoo's, long hair on guys etc.
edit: and divorce of course.
sojourner
Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
And how do we know that the homosexual orientation is "deemed sinful by the Christian God?" That "fact" isn't mentioned in the bible? Did you hear that from some religious leader? how does s/he know?
Extending unconditional love means giving one the benefit of the doubt.
I'm bisexual. I don't hate. Believe how you want about the fate of my soul (whatever makes you sleep well at night). I only demand equal rights, opportunities, and protections as heterosexuals have from our government that we all supply our tax dollars to.
For me, it's really that simple.
Several years ago (late 90's, 1997-8?) I read an article by a fairly prominent SBC pastor in Texas that flat out stated he would change his blanket opposition to any form of abortion should a definite genetic cause be determined for homosexuality.
Despite the OP's disingenuous "we need to reconcile" statements, the complete eradication of homosexual individuals is the only thing I see his thoughts leading to.
Cassiopia
Sugar and Spice
Okay I respect that you are trying to find some middle way and to remove the hatred you perceive on both sides of the argument as you see it. The problem is that the hatred is not caused by the same things.
On the Christian side, where there is hatred, it stems from a totally false, archaic and bigoted view of sexuality as a whole and homosexuality in particular. There are Christian preachers who tell all that will listen to them that virtually all forms of sex outside a Christian marriage are sinful, and who will equate homosexuality as being evil. People who take that view have historically been utterly hateful to those who are homosexual and sometimes extremely violent as well. They have used every possible method to hinder or prevent homosexuals expressing themselves or living their life and their sexuality as freely and openly as most people would wish.
Where there is hatred on the homosexual side it is largely as a result of the violence and oppression bigots of Christianity (and other faiths) have subjected them to. If somebody is forbidden to express their sexuality, or if they are subjected to violence and abuse for being homosexual, they have every right to hate those who are oppressing them.
Thus I think in your effort to build bridges you need to be willing to go much further. You need to state openly and clearly that neither sexuality in itself or homosexuality are wrong or sinful at all.
Al forms of sexuality are good so long as they they involve meaningful consent. Any aspect of your faith which denies that fact needs to be rigorously challenged.
So I take it you are trying to tell people that homosexuality is not a matter of choice and we now have proof of it? And by people you mean fundamentalist Christians and others who are considering it a lifestyle choice.
This has nothing to do with anything, but... I dont mind being called abnormal
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