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Let me convince you

Orias

Left Hand Path
God is simply invocation, anything more is personal and essentially meaningless to me.

Which is why I believe we should not waste our time with him being all powerful and bla bla bla, because you're not. Christian God = God of Death, perception = liberation, liberation = Godlike, God like = freedom of Godhood, Goodhood = choice of being or not being, choice = sacrifice.

Superior is subjective, teacher student relation is likely nonsense, worship is fear.
 
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LongGe123

Active Member
This, for me, was a bit like watching a French movie - I understand what's in front of me, but have no idea what the hell it's doing there.

What are you getting at?
 
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Orias

Left Hand Path
I'll just say 10 and that you probably actually secretly believe in an undefined God.
 

predavlad

Skeptic
How strong of an atheist are you?

1-10.
I would say a 9.9 for me, I like to maintain a very small percentage of doubt in all of my beliefs(/lack of them), simply because we don't see the world the way it is, we see it how our imperfect brain perceives it with our imperfect sensory organs.

I would also give the flying spaghetti monster a 9.9.

Nice OP by the way :)
 

Orias

Left Hand Path
Invocation is just psychology, and basically everything else in the OP is word-mincing.

Everything is psychology.

The rest you seem fairly convinced of :D


I would say a 9.9 for me, I like to maintain a very small percentage of doubt in all of my beliefs(/lack of them), simply because we don't see the world the way it is, we see it how our imperfect brain perceives it with our imperfect sensory organs.

I would also give the flying spaghetti monster a 9.9.

Nice OP by the way :)

Neat, I'm 6.66. I am very doubtful of existing and non-existing things.

Word-mincing: the campest form of equivocation.

Who's going camping? Why would you subject yourself to that if you already own a house built of trees?
 

BBTimeless

Active Member
Disclaimer: Christians not advised, strong atheists are welcome to try and get off to this, weak atheists I don't give a damn.

So... you are preaching to like minded believers, sounds really familiar...


God is simply invocation, anything more is personal and essentially meaningless to me (and likely everyone else).

I was with you until you made a very borderline, affirmative statement. I find it unlikely that "everyone else" shares your view.


So lets not waste our time with him being all powerful and bla bla bla, because you're not. Christian God = God of Death, perception = liberation, liberation = Godlike, God like = freedom of Godhood, Goodhood = choice of being or not being, choice = sacrifice.

Ehhhhhhh... ermmm... I feel you are really trying to make a strong point here, but you come up short. It is all "perception", a Christian can just as easily make a string similar to this and try to claim the same thing.

Superior is subjective, teacher student relation is likely nonsense, worship is fear.

LETS GO!
Lets go? Lets go where? What are we doing? I don't understand what you want from me.
 
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Trey of Diamonds

Well-Known Member
The only thing I'm convinced of is that you have a belief and you feel strongly about it. I'm happy that works for you. I consider your belief just as valid as any other and if it helps you live a happy and fulfilling life then its a good belief... for you. My beliefs follow a different path, no convincing necessary.
 

The Sum of Awe

Brought to you by the moment that spacetime began.
God is simply invocation, anything more is personal and essentially meaningless to me (and likely everyone else).


As Poly said, invoking something is just psychology. Why is God that?


So lets not waste our time with him being all powerful and bla bla bla, because you're not. Christian God = God of Death, perception = liberation, liberation = Godlike, God like = freedom of Godhood, Goodhood = choice of being or not being, choice = sacrifice.

Cool. Convince me all that. :p

Superior is subjective, teacher student relation is likely nonsense, worship is fear.

LETS GO!

I agree, teacher student relation is nonsense, and so is worship.
 

Cassiopia

Sugar and Spice
Disclaimer: Christians not advised, strong atheists are welcome to try and get off to this, weak atheists I don't give a damn.


God is simply invocation, anything more is personal and essentially meaningless to me (and likely everyone else).

Assuming much?


So lets not waste our time with him being all powerful and bla bla bla, because you're not. Christian God = God of Death, perception = liberation, liberation = Godlike, God like = freedom of Godhood, Goodhood = choice of being or not being, choice = sacrifice.
Your logic gets lost halfway through

Superior is subjective, teacher student relation is likely nonsense, worship is fear.
Superior is subjective; yes it is. Teacher student relationships vary considerably. Worship may be based in fear for some. For others it is about respect and for others there are many more reasons for worship.

Not all Satanists are the same. ;)
 

Super Universe

Defender of God
proving god's existence limits god.

that's of course if one is to understand god as limitless...sort of like the expanding super universe... ;)

If God is limitless it doesn't necessarily mean that He's achieved that extent yet. Certain aspects of God are limitless, form may not be, or it may eventually be.
 

Sir Doom

Cooler than most of you
Disclaimer: Christians not advised, strong atheists are welcome to try and get off to this, weak atheists I don't give a damn.

Can I play, too? I'm not Christian or atheist of any vein... I'll just reply anyway :p

God is simply invocation, anything more is personal and essentially meaningless to me (and likely everyone else).

Why is invocation meaningful and nothing else? I mean, I realize I can't inject any meaning into anything for you that you don't personally desire to accept, but why is invocation somehow not personal and at the same time meaningful? Inconsistency is no good for me.

So lets not waste our time with him being all powerful and bla bla bla, because you're not.

Well, I certainly don't believe in an all-powerful god but that is just about the only type of being I can't imagine existing. Everything short of omnipotence seems possible to me. The fact that we aren't anywhere near godlike is really just a function of time and effort, if you ask me. There is no limit to imagination, and therefore no limit to reality either over a long enough time frame.

Christian God = God of Death,

You'll have to pardon my lack of education in Satanist dogma, but is this due to the Christian god only being important in relation to an afterlife?

perception = liberation,

Only on a personal level, and even then it's not the only thing you need. Action is required to translate perception into liberation. Also, desire for liberation is required. Those that have no desire or ability to be liberated are never liberated regardless of perception.

liberation = Godlike,

That's a bit of a stretch. It may be a prerequisite, but I don't think they are equivalent. Like I said, action and desire are also required.

God like = freedom of Godhood,

Alright, I'll take that definition.

Goodhood = choice of being or not being,

Solipsism? A fair position, I suppose. What happened to not being all-powerful, though?

choice = sacrifice.

I suppose we usually give up something to gain another. But choice must necessarily be conscious or it isn't choice. Since the sacrifice is rarely examined before a choice is made, I have a hard time equating the two. Then again, I suppose factoring in perception brings the sacrifice to light and informs the choice. Even considering that, I think the gain is by far a more significant portion of choice than the sacrifice required for that gain.

Superior is subjective,

Of course. Superiors are only superior because they are superior to us. They have their own superiors and we are superior to something inferior to us. It's a big subjective chain of relation. Transcending this chain, however, is not necessarily possible or even useful. Its a nice thought, but when push comes to shove, some things simply overpower us. This may be temporary or even illusory, but again perception+action+desire and not any one apart from the others.

teacher student relation is likely nonsense,

I hope you mean specifically god as a teacher and not teaching as a whole. I can agree with you if that's what you mean, otherwise I am glad to have and be a teacher. Nothing about it is nonsensical to me. It seems perfectly sensible and rewarding.

worship is fear.

Maybe, but the real question is whether this fear is misplaced or not. Depending on your current situation, fear can be the most productive response. Having never met any gods, I can't really see a reason to fear them. But that's a lot like a wild animal not fearing a human. Its not really a benefit to those animals, is it? Unless you feel that defiance is the most important aspect of life. Being that you are a Satanist this may very well be the case.

AYE! OH!
 

lamplighter

Almighty Tallest

So lets not waste our time with him being all powerful and bla bla bla, because you're not. Christian God = God of Death, perception = liberation, liberation = Godlike, God like = freedom of Godhood, Goodhood = choice of being or not being, choice = sacrifice.

Superior is subjective, teacher student relation is likely nonsense, worship is fear.

LETS GO!
Christian God = Death? Well that's just one aspect isn't it? He's also a creative force, so he would be the God of life AND death. Liberation = Godlike? How so? Liberation just means you're free, doesn't imply that you have any power, just that you're not bound to whatever it your liberated from. God like = freedom? Not necessarily, there are gods who are bound, sometimes by even their own rules. Godhood (assuming that's what you meant by "goodhood" unless you're just throwing together words) = choice of being or not being? Every entity has that choice so it's not exactly a god like power at all, anything can off themselves if they so choose to. Choice = sacrifice? Let's say (strawman argument incoming) one person has an apple, and one person has a gun, and I can only choose one. Well naturally I pick the gun, and then shoot the guy with the apple, now I have both, so... where's the sacrifice on my part?
 

Orias

Left Hand Path
So... you are preaching to like minded believers, sounds really familiar...


No I'm not, I just figured a disclaimer may be necessary :D

I was with you until you made a very borderline, affirmative statement. I find it unlikely that "everyone else" shares your view.

And what would that be?

I find it highly likely that many people share the same view as I do, invocation is something that we can all agree on :p


Ehhhhhhh... ermmm... I feel you are really trying to make a strong point here, but you come up short. It is all "perception", a Christian can just as easily make a string similar to this and try to claim the same thing.

But a Christian wouldn't, so that's self defeating.

Lets go? Lets go where? What are we doing? I don't understand what you want from me.

Lets date :D

Not even close. Making athoritive statements does not a convincing argument make. :sorry1:

An authoritative statement would be, I am going to convince, its more of a free leisure statement :D

As Poly said, invoking something is just psychology. Why is God that?

I'm wondering if you actually know what he meant by that.

I agree, teacher student relation is nonsense, and so is worship.

Its only nonsense when it comes to the imposing religion, otherwise its perfectly sensical.
 
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