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a question i have about christian beliefs

Aqualung

Tasty
ssa5757 said:
thank you for all of your replies.
two different views have been given.
AuqaLung has said that those people will go to spirit prison.
the one thing that does bother me about that, is that it would then allow someone passage into heaven by ingnorance.
No, that's not true. Anybody who did not know the gospel (ie they were ignorant) would go to the spirit prison where they would hear the gospel, and either get to accept or reject it. There is no salvation through ignorance.

ssa5757 said:
in that, someone who was born in a place/time/circumstance where he never heard the word of God, he would be given a chance to go to heaven, while someone who did hear the word and spent their life striving to keep their faith thoughout their life, and due to whatever events lost thier faith, and might not gain access to heaven. it doesnt seem fair.
It's not fair, and that's not the way it works. ;) One of the things you might want to start a different thread on is the LDS concept of heaven. It's not just one heaven where everybody is rewarded equally. you get rewarded by how well you did when you were here. (In my father's kingdom there are many masions...)

ssa5757 said:
and is there any biblical reference to a spirit prison? that is another thing i have a hard time understanding is all the differnet interpretations, ideals, and beliefs of christianity and the bible.
i know have heard of purgatory, but i dont know exactly what that is.
yes there are! http://scriptures.lds.org/tgs/sprtsnpr
 

fromthe heart

Well-Known Member
ssa5757 said:
i do think that my mother shares more of the beliefs of From the Heart, who has given in his reply what i think must be a more traditional view of christian beliefs.
but i cannot agree with you From the Heart.
there is just no way that the word of God can have possibly reached every single person of the billions of this world and throuhgout history.
and i do not believe it is just to send those people to hell.
there are many people who never had the choice to accept Jesus and repent their sins, and many people who have been brought up in other religions. it is hard to believe in a religion that does not accept the other religions of the world, or explain what will happen to them.
Take the Dhali Lhama for example, he recently came to my city awhile back, and i read about him.
he has traveled the world spreading peace and happiness for people.
yet according to the bible, he is going to hell, since he has not accepted Jesus Christ.
this bothers me.
Do you really believe From the heart that the Dhali Lhama will go to hell?
i would like to believe in the spirit prison, but at the same time, there are those that dont believe in it, so it is hard to give faith in these beliefs.
ok thxs again for reading my posts
clear.gif
How can you decide the Dhali Lhama has never received salvation? Did he tell you this? I can see how it could be made by the assumption but did he ever say to your knowledge that in his heart at one point or another he's not ? Lots of well meaning folks put assumptions into a lot from other's religions but only the person and God know for true who will be in Heaven. Just because a person lives a certian way you don't know what is in their heart at all...I just can't assume that he is going to burn in the lake of fire .
 

nutshell

Well-Known Member
ssa5757 said:
thank you for all of your replies.
two different views have been given.
AuqaLung has said that those people will go to spirit prison.
the one thing that does bother me about that, is that it would then allow someone passage into heaven by ingnorance.
in that, someone who was born in a place/time/circumstance where he never heard the word of God, he would be given a chance to go to heaven, while someone who did hear the word and spent their life striving to keep their faith thoughout their life, and due to whatever events lost thier faith, and might not gain access to heaven. it doesnt seem fair.
clear.gif
God knows us perfectly, meaning he can be the perfect judge of whether we received sufficient opportunity to accept Christ or not in this life. If not, then we will be given sufficient opportunity in Spirit Prison. It will not be any easier to accept it in Spirit Prison than during this life. We will still be the same individual with the same wants and desires...the same mind. Everyone will make their choice to either accept or reject Christ.


ssa5757 said:
and is there any biblical reference to a spirit prison? that is another thing i have a hard time understanding is all the differnet interpretations, ideals, and beliefs of christianity and the bible.
clear.gif
Yes, there is Biblical references. For example, 1 Peter 3:18-19.
"For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spririt: By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison."

These verses teach of Christ's mission to suffer for us, making him our Savior and state that after he was crucified he went to the spirits in prison and preached to them. He was giving those who did not have the opportunity in this life to hear his word in the next. A just and fair God would not have it any other way.
 

ssa5757

New Member
Ill agree From the Heart that there is no way that we can know what is in the Dhali Lama's heart, and it is not our place to judge or decide who is going to heaven or not. But i think you somewhat avoided my question, or it was not worded properly.
From your replies, you have said that those that do not accept the word, those that do not accept the teachings of Jesus and as accept him as thier saviour, are not granted passage to heaven and will burn in the fiery lakes of hell.
so a better way to ask the question would be,
If at the time of his death the Dhali Lama hasnt accepted the word of God, or accepted Jesus and repented of his sins, and there is no in between, then should he go to hell, despite all the good he has done?
i know you probably cannot answer this question, since technically according to the word, then he should go to hell, but, personally, we cannot believe that our God would do this.
and this more or less is the dilema that i have with the rest of the worlds population as well. Many just lived ordinary lives, and never had the opportunity to hear the word, but I still do not think they deserve to go to hell.

From the replies that have been given, three beliefs have been shown.

One is that God is forgiving, and will find a place for all that have done good in this world, regardless if they have heard the word or not.
and i would like to believe in that, but the bible is very explicit that Jesus is the way into heaven. I know that the bible cannot be taken literaly and there are many things we do not adhere to, such as many of the old world laws in leviticus, and even the sabbath. in todays modern world, its impossible to not have hospitals and other things open on a sunday.
but i dont think you could ignore the very plain teachings of Jesus.
Which is the second belief, which says there is no inbetween, you accept the word, or perish in hell.
the third belief is that there is a spirit prison that those that did not hear the word will be sent to, and given a chance to accept the word and repent of their sins.
and that they will be given a place in heaven, but not in as high a standing as those who have accepted the word in their life.
i would like to thank those people that gave me biblical references to a spirit prison. Its very interesting, i was never told about this by my family or listened to any sermons from a priest about this.
i would like to believe in this too, but its hard to forget that there are those that do not believe in it, and that it is not accepted by all Christians.
i think this is also another big reason i have had hard time giving all my faith to the Christian beliefs is that there are so many different interpretations of beliefs.
I do not think i am qualified to pick and choose from the bible what i want to believe and what i dont. and i dont think anyone else is.
I suppose the one common belief is that there is a loving God, and thats what i will believe in.
well, its that time of year again to see my mother and my family, one of the reasons i made this post, because christmas is a very religious time for my mother, and she always likes to talk about that. i guess i will have some things to talk about this year.
ok thanks again everyone
 

Aqualung

Tasty
ssa5757 said:
i would like to believe in this too, but its hard to forget that there are those that do not believe in it, and that it is not accepted by all Christians.
Don't listen to what other people believe. ;) Just believe what you want, and don't let the others push you into believing what they want.

ssa5757 said:
i think this is also another big reason i have had hard time giving all my faith to the Christian beliefs is that there are so many different interpretations of beliefs.
That's where prayer is so important. After all, the Holy Ghost is there to manifest truth to you. Stuff that makes you feel good or calm (like the idea that a just God will allow everybody to have the chance to accept Christ) are generally from God. Other stuff isn't.

ssa5757 said:
I do not think i am qualified to pick and choose from the bible what i want to believe and what i dont. and i dont think anyone else is.
That's why you have to read it all, and consider such things as that Jesus is the way, but there is a spirit prison where Jesus preached the gospel. You have to take it all in.

ssa5757 said:
I suppose the one common belief is that there is a loving God, and thats what i will believe in.
Amen!

Merry Christmas. I hope you find an answer to all your questions.
 

TheGreaterGame

Active Member
Let me give you a Protestant Evangelical Position From a Reformed Theology standpoint:

1. The Bible declares that all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God . . . therefore all men and women and children and babies, by way of procreation, since Adam deserve to perish in a devils hell.

2. It is by the grace of God that anyone, man or woman or child or baby makes into the presence of God in New Heaven and New Earth. Grace is mercy that no one deserves, not me and not you. God being a God of justice can not just merely overlook and forgive the sins of people . . . he demands payment for sin. So God's way of satisfying payment, is the death of his own impecable son, Jesus, on a cross.

3. This unmerited Grace is bestowed upon all who call upon Jesus Christ to be their Lord and Savior and accept his substitutionary attonement in their place.

4. Since a person must put exclusive faith in Christ alone to the exclusion of all other religions, gods, idols or things, for the hope of salvation then this would mean that those who do not have a chance to respond to the gospel and those of other religious orentations and those who just plainly deny that Jesus is savior and Lord do in fact end up in the place of the damned until Judgement and then and eternity of hell awaits.

5. Post-mordem salvation and the doctrine of purgatory are fine and dandy ideas but cannot be pulled from the pages of the bible.

6. The fact that there are so many who have not heard the gosple and refused to listen to calling of the Holy Spirit has spurred Christian Evangelicals into the Modern Missionary Movement and has created and urgency by which we pay, train, and educate missionaries for a life of service because we have been charged by Christ to go and preach to the nations the gospel.

7. No exclusive faith in Christ in this life means No hope of salvation in the next life
 

Smoke

Done here.
ssa5757 said:
what i mean, is that according to the bible, and christian beliefs, you need to repent of your sins, and accept jesus christ as your savior to be allowed into heaven. or else you are going to hell.
Actually, the Bible doesn't say one thing about accepting Jesus as your savior. While it's a very common belief among Christians, it's not found in the Bible.

If the doctrine of eternal damnation is an obstacle to your becoming Christian, and you'd like to be Christian, you ought to know there are many Christians who don't believe in eternal damnation. You might want to take a look at Tentmaker (www.tentmaker.org), a Christian Universalist website. However, it's not a sure thing that your mother will be satisfied if you become a Christian Universalist. There are some Christians who consider it essential to believe in eternal damnation.
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
TheGreaterGame said:
The Bible declares that all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God . . . therefore all men and women and children and babies, by way of procreation, since Adam deserve to perish in a devils hell.
But I thought Christ atoned for the sins of all mankind. Did His sacrifice not atone for Adam's sin?

This unmerited Grace is bestowed upon all who call upon Jesus Christ to be their Lord and Savior and accept his substitutionary attonement in their place.
And would this be regardless of their subsequent behavior? Do you believe He requires us to repent?

Since a person must put exclusive faith in Christ alone to the exclusion of all other religions, gods, idols or things, for the hope of salvation then this would mean that those who do not have a chance to respond to the gospel... do in fact end up in the place of the damned until Judgement and then and eternity of hell awaits.
Would you please tell me (1) how you reconcile this belief with your belief that God is not only just, but merciful? And (2) How do you personally feel, knowing that millions of God's own children will be condemned to an eternity in Hell due to the fact that they were born at the wrong time and in the wrong place? Is God's preferential treatment of people like you a source of pride for you, or do you feel sympathy for those he chooses to banish through no fault of their own?

The fact that there are so many who have not heard the gosple and refused to listen to calling of the Holy Spirit has spurred Christian Evangelicals into the Modern Missionary Movement and has created and urgency by which we pay, train, and educate missionaries for a life of service because we have been charged by Christ to go and preach to the nations the gospel.
And they (those who have not been blessed as you have been) will be eternally punished if you don't get to them in time?

No exclusive faith in Christ in this life means No hope of salvation in the next life
Wow. Thanks for reminding me how "un-Christian" some people's "Christian" beliefs really are.
 

dawny0826

Mother Heathen
God knows our hearts COMPLETELY...whether you live in the States or you live on the other side of the world and have never heard of him. When we become Christians, one of our greatest responsibilities in life is to spread the Gospel of Jesus Christ to others...so that those in other parts of the world can KNOW that Christ is Lord and the key to our redemption. I truly believe with all of my heart that if an individual has NEVER known about Jesus Christ...I don't believe that that person can be condemned for their lack of knowledge. However, once the gospel has been taught...an individual has the option to accept or reject HIM. If an individual rejects Christ...he's made a choice to reject salvation.

Christian missionaries from ALL over the world reach out to people every single day...teaching them about Jesus Christ...helping people build churches...establish Christian schools for children...people truly are reaching out to people who don't know Christ...giving them hope, so that they won't be condemned...and GOD loves us so much, he promises us that Jesus Christ will not return until EVERYONE has heard the gospel. Do people die everyday regardless? Yes, this was his design...we live and then our flesh dies. But I believe for those individuals that have never heard of Christ have lived as wholesome lives as they possibly could...I believe that our God, a God of Compassion and LOVE can show mercy. And for those of us who DO know of Jesus Christ...well...this is something to think about...we never know what can happen during any given day...that's incentive for me to strive to live for HIM the best that I can.

As Christians, we have Jesus Christ within us...we can minister to others every day of our lives just by living a Christian life.

So, perhaps...you should pray to Jesus for spiritual guidance in regard to missions. It's an AMAZING feeling when you reach out to someone and they accept Jesus Christ.

And to be honest...you don't need a religion to find your way to Christ. I respect those of the LDS but I caution people who are seeking truths not to get sucked into a RELIGION but to seek Jesus Christ. It's really ALL About him. When you accept him into your life...the Holy Spirit truly takes residence in your heart and WILL guide and direct you to where you need to go and what you need to do with your life.

"Call to me, and I will answer you, and show you great and mighty things which you do not know."

Jeremiah 33:3
Jeremiah 29:11-14
Jeremiah 31:3

These are verses I like to refer to when I'm in need of reassurance.

God Bless.
 

TheGreaterGame

Active Member
Katzpur said:
But I thought Christ atoned for the sins of all mankind. Did His sacrifice not atone for Adam's sin?

And would this be regardless of their subsequent behavior? Do you believe He requires us to repent?

Would you please tell me (1) how you reconcile this belief with your belief that God is not only just, but merciful? And (2) How do you personally feel, knowing that millions of God's own children will be condemned to an eternity in Hell due to the fact that they were born at the wrong time and in the wrong place? Is God's preferential treatment of people like you a source of pride for you, or do you feel sympathy for those he chooses to banish through no fault of their own?

And they (those who have not been blessed as you have been) will be eternally punished if you don't get to them in time?

Wow. Thanks for reminding me how "un-Christian" some people's "Christian" beliefs really are.
Let's take these a step at a time:

1. Christ's Atonement has unlimited potential, meaning that all who choose to belive and trust in his work will be saved . . . nonetheless, it is limited to those who accept that gift. So Christ's blood was shed for a "particular people" not the whole of mankind . . . do you see what I'm getting at, because some will bring up John 3:16 and other verses like 1st John 2:1-3 and some others, but its pretty clear that there is a place called Hell and there are going to be people in Hell. Luke 12, Matthew 7, Revelation 21 . . . there is a Hell and people are going, so you have to throw the whole idea of universal salvation out the window if we can trust the words of the Bible. Feel free to dialogue on this question, I might be able to flesh it out a little more.

2. I reconcile this with God's character because scripture is my guide . . . and Deut 30 says that God is just and is merciful. Now all people deserve Hell and death and misery because all have transgressed God's law- I know that I have and I know I deserve Hell . . . all people are in that category . . . but from the way your thinking, I belive and could be wrong, but I think you think that God owes kindness to a creature who has shown nothing but hate and malice and envy and strife against him all the days of their lives. God owes nobody anything, this is what makes "GRACE- GRACE" which is mercy that nobody deserves but what God gives anyway. Because if you earned God's favor it would be WORKS that save and not grace, and if not by grace then their is reason for Jesus, but only you keeping the law, which you are unable to keep.

3. How do I feel knowing that Billions of people will be in Hell, including most of my family (unless God opens their hearts to the Gospel), . . . I feel sad, but determined to show them the love of Jesus and the truth of the Gospel. Most of all I'm sad and anxious for God's glory, because if people are not giving Glory to God then God is not being adored the way he should be . . . the reason I want people to know Jesus and Love God is because God is worthy of that praise and honor. It is my chief end in life to glorify God by enjoying Him forever. Remember all have sinned and deserve Hell . . . nobody is inoccent.

4. There is no preferintial treatment only Grace . . . all deserve Hell it is by grace that some are saved.

5. And to those who have not heard the Gospel and will never hear it . . . may it be a constant reminder that we need preachers and teachers of the Gospel to go to the nations, for without a Preacher how will any belive, Rom 10:15-17

6. These are consistent biblical teachings, regardless of what modern prophets and popes say . . . GOD'S WORD STANDS AND DETERMINES AND DELIVERS.
 

nutshell

Well-Known Member
TheGreaterGame said:
Let's take these a step at a time:

1. Christ's Atonement has unlimited potential, meaning that all who choose to belive and trust in his work will be saved . . . nonetheless, it is limited to those who accept that gift. So Christ's blood was shed for a "particular people" not the whole of mankind . . . do you see what I'm getting at, because some will bring up John 3:16 and other verses like 1st John 2:1-3 and some others, but its pretty clear that there is a place called Hell and there are going to be people in Hell. Luke 12, Matthew 7, Revelation 21 . . . there is a Hell and people are going, so you have to throw the whole idea of universal salvation out the window if we can trust the words of the Bible. Feel free to dialogue on this question, I might be able to flesh it out a little more..
That's right. Christ's atonement is for those who accept that gift. Yes, there is a Hell (though I expect our interpretation of such a place may differ). LDS do not believe in a universal salvation. Is that what you thought?

TheGreaterGame said:
2. I reconcile this with God's character because scripture is my guide . . . and Deut 30 says that God is just and is merciful. Now all people deserve Hell and death and misery because all have transgressed God's law- I know that I have and I know I deserve Hell . . . all people are in that category . . . but from the way your thinking, I belive and could be wrong, but I think you think that God owes kindness to a creature who has shown nothing but hate and malice and envy and strife against him all the days of their lives. God owes nobody anything, this is what makes "GRACE- GRACE" which is mercy that nobody deserves but what God gives anyway. Because if you earned God's favor it would be WORKS that save and not grace, and if not by grace then their is reason for Jesus, but only you keeping the law, which you are unable to keep..
LDS do not believe we are saved by WORKS. After everything we do we still fall short and it is only through the GRACE OF God that we may return to Him. I will also put forth that one who accepts Christ and has faith will also perform works because "faith, if it hath not works, is dead." (see James 2:17)

TheGreaterGame said:
3. How do I feel knowing that Billions of people will be in Hell, including most of my family (unless God opens their hearts to the Gospel), . . . I feel sad, but determined to show them the love of Jesus and the truth of the Gospel. Most of all I'm sad and anxious for God's glory, because if people are not giving Glory to God then God is not being adored the way he should be . . . the reason I want people to know Jesus and Love God is because God is worthy of that praise and honor. It is my chief end in life to glorify God by enjoying Him forever. Remember all have sinned and deserve Hell . . . nobody is inoccent..
No disagreement here. We are all to accept Christ and worship God and those who choose not to will suffer the consequences.

TheGreaterGame said:
4. There is no preferintial treatment only Grace . . . all deserve Hell it is by grace that some are saved..
No disagreement here either.

TheGreaterGame said:
5. And to those who have not heard the Gospel and will never hear it . . . may it be a constant reminder that we need preachers and teachers of the Gospel to go to the nations, for without a Preacher how will any belive, Rom 10:15-17.
Hmmm, you seem to have forgotten the part about God being Just and Merciful with this quote. Is it just or merciful to send people who never heard the Gospel to Hell through no fault of their own? I don't think so. God devised away that those who did not have the opportunity could hear the Gospel in spirit "prison." See 1 Peter 3:19.

TheGreaterGame said:
6. These are consistent biblical teachings, regardless of what modern prophets and popes say . . . GOD'S WORD STANDS AND DETERMINES AND DELIVERS.
Modern prophets say nothing to contradict biblical teachings. If fact, I think you'll see we agree about a great many things and the scriptural references I've used in my posts have been limited to the Bible.
 

TheGreaterGame

Active Member
Hmmm, you seem to have forgotten the part about God being Just and Merciful with this quote. Is it just or merciful to send people who never heard the Gospel to Hell through no fault of their own? I don't think so. God devised away that those who did not have the opportunity could hear the Gospel in spirit "prison." See 1 Peter 3:19.
Let's talk about this for minute:

1. Are all people everywhere sinners and deserving of hell by the mere fact they are born into this world? . . . what I am getting at is what do you think of the state of man . . . because your really caught up on this idea of people not having the chance to hear the gospel and this some how makes God unjust and not merciful . . . you even said 'by no fault of their own' people will be in Hell because they deserve Hell and God does not owe anyone an explaination or anything else . . . you seem to think God owes us something . . . he doesn't
 

Abram

Abraham
ssa5757 said:
hello. my mother is very religious. and it bothers her that i am not as religious has her.
i would like to share her christian beliefs, but there are things that i just cant accept or understand.
one the most important questions i have, that i simply can not think about, is, what is going to happen to the rest of the worlds population?
what i mean, is that according to the bible, and christian beliefs, you need to repent of your sins, and accept jesus christ as your savior to be allowed into heaven. or else you are going to hell.
but, there are millions, even billions of people in this world, say, in some jungle in africa, or even just people living in places like india or china. they have never had the chance or might not have even heard of Jesus Christ, or the bible.
So are they all going to hell?
I certainly dont think they deserve such punishment. and if anything, i feel horribly sorry for some of them, they spent all their lives in devotion to a false god(s), doing no harm to anyone, or committing no sins except that of not accepting Jesus Christ.
what is going to happen to them?
This is what i find the most hard to accept is christianities lack of explanation for the population of our world, and its other religions. i dont think that anyone born in another country, accepting its religion that is not christian should go to hell.
So can anyone explain what is going to happen to the rest of the world?
this is one of the main reasons i have a very hard time accepting christianity is that it offers no explanation to this question.
ok thxs for reading my post
Sad I know but don't burden yourself with the world. God made the mountains so big, and the seas so deep, and the starts so far away so that the entire world would question how, why, who? Hell is real and God's not sending us there. We're already going. He has given his only son as payment for those that chose not to go hell. You being on this site makes you know accountable. Turn to Jesus ask for forgiveness or go to hell. If the it bothers you so much about the others going to hell, share the goodnews. Don't fool yourself, the rest of the world knows the story of Jesus.

"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow is the road that leads to life, only a few find it."
Matthew 7:13,14
sa5757 the answer is right now, right here and can't be put off any longer.
 

nutshell

Well-Known Member
TheGreaterGame said:
Let's talk about this for minute:

1. Are all people everywhere sinners and deserving of hell by the mere fact they are born into this world? . . . what I am getting at is what do you think of the state of man . . . because your really caught up on this idea of people not having the chance to hear the gospel and this some how makes God unjust and not merciful . . . you even said 'by no fault of their own' people will be in Hell because they deserve Hell and God does not owe anyone an explaination or anything else . . . you seem to think God owes us something . . . he doesn't
I do not believe in original sin and Christ telling us to become "as a little child" supports this I believe. However, once we are old enough to be accountable we all fall short. NO one but Christ was/is/or will be perfect. God does not "owe" us anything, but being a just and merciful God has provided the opportunity to everyone to hear the gospel as demonstrated by the scripture reference I made above.
 

joeboonda

Well-Known Member
Where did the rich man go in the story of the rich man and Lazarus, when he died? He went to Hell. He is still in Hell. If you die without Christ, you go to Hell. We are to tell the world, we are telling the world and have been fro 2,000 years. Why will people go to Hell? For falling short of God's Holiness, for breaking his commandments, for adultery, murder, stealing, lying, disobeying parents, worshipping other gods, etc. Without Christ's righteousness given to us as a free gift, without his substitiary death as payment for our sins, we must pay for our own, in Hell. This is the Bible, this is the truth. No second chances, its Christ or Hell. This is what the Bible says. It is appointed for a man once to die, and after this, the judgement. Perhaps one never heard of Christ, then perhaps he will not be judged for denying Him. He will be judged for his sins. Did he beg forgiveness of God? Perhaps he will be pardoned. God knows. We know we are to tell the world, that is in darkness, the good news of the free gift God did everything in his power to give us so we would not ever have to go to Hell. But do not be fooled, after death, its too late.

Sincerely,

Joeboonda
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
joeboonda said:
If you die without Christ, you go to Hell.
Even people who never heard of Christ? My gosh, you fundamentalists would drive anybody away from Christianity! No wonder Christians have such a reputation for being self-righteous and condescending. You guys really do a great job of convincing people of God's love.
 

TheGreaterGame

Active Member
nutshell said:
I do not believe in original sin and Christ telling us to become "as a little child" supports this I believe. However, once we are old enough to be accountable we all fall short. NO one but Christ was/is/or will be perfect. God does not "owe" us anything, but being a just and merciful God has provided the opportunity to everyone to hear the gospel as demonstrated by the scripture reference I made above.
Good, I'm glad that we have a dialogue . . .

1. You reject original sin. Now we have somewhere to start. Why? Who determines age of accountablity or is it different for every case? Rom 5:17 implies, I think pretty clearly implies that through birth, through sex, the sinful nature is passed on. Because Adam sinned all sinned . . . it doesn't say because Adam sinned all might or may sin . . . it says all sinned all died. You and I will both die, because we have sinned. Children die all of the time, babies die all the time. The sure sign a person is a sinner is the fact that they die . . . because if they were not sinners, they would not die. "For the wages of sin is death"

2. There has been no shortage of academic and scholarly work on the 1st Peter 3:19 verse the whole "Spirit Prision Idea" . . . I think there is wide range of different interpretations and to chalk it up to your diffinitive arguement for God to give everyone and opportunity to respond to the gospel a stretch. Nonetheless it could be a possible interpretation, but there could be better ones, also this interpretation will trip you up in some spots, theologically speaking, also take for example the interpretation that in 1st Peter 3:19, that Jesus was preaching to those who scoffed at Noah. Also there is another interpretation that says that while Christ was dead he went and preached to the damned souls in the place of the wicked dead . . . but it doesn't say anything about salvation. You cannot build a theology out of one text, instead, you must look at the whole of scripture.
 

Abram

Abraham
Katzpur said:
Even people who never heard of Christ? My gosh, you fundamentalists would drive anybody away from Christianity! No wonder Christians have such a reputation for being self-righteous and condescending. You guys really do a great job of convincing people of God's love.
Or we could lie to them and tell them there's no hell?
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
Abram said:
Or we could lie to them and tell them there's no hell?
One extreme is as bad as the other, in my opinion, particularly when neither one represents the truth.
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
TheGreaterGame said:
You reject original sin. Now we have somewhere to start. Why? Who determines age of accountablity or is it different for every case? Rom 5:17 implies, I think pretty clearly implies that through birth, through sex, the sinful nature is passed on. Because Adam sinned all sinned . . . it doesn't say because Adam sinned all might or may sin . . . it says all sinned all died. You and I will both die, because we have sinned. Children die all of the time, babies die all the time. The sure sign a person is a sinner is the fact that they die . . . because if they were not sinners, they would not die. "For the wages of sin is death"
What sin has a newborn baby committed?
 
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