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Did Jesus free us from the Law?

john313

warrior-poet
Peace,
You are making A LOT of generalizations concerning Tibet. I could say that Americans speak only English, this is true for the vast majority; i also kow many who speak many other languages. Just because some people in a country or even most are pagan does not mean they are all pagan. Tibet would actually be a perfect spot to preserve a sacred text from the governing authorities wanting to destroy it because they decided it was not holy or divinely inspired. I agree that anyone can post things on the internet, but without the original texts in front of me, which will most likely not happen and i am guessing you have not seen them either; we have to rely on information from other sources, other people. My sources are not less credible than yours simply because you disagree with them. I can copy and paste from many other sources, and i'm sure you can as well, but there is no point. There is information supporting both sides. as far as the date the Gospel of teh Nazarenes was written i have seen different views on that as well. from right after the crucifiction to 160 ad. If there is something that disagrees with Matthew, it does not automatically mean that Matthew is right. Also i do not know if there are variances in the original languages and they were just translated differently, this happens a lot.
I think we might be getting a little off topic :)
Regardless of the status of this gospel, Jesus did not free us from the law. :)
 

true blood

Active Member
In the East, the name of a man who went bankrupt was posted at the gate of the city by the elders of that city, stating the names of his creditors and the amount of his debt. When all debts were completely paid, the elders would double the paper, folding together the writ of debts, so that all the debts were "blotted out". The folded-together document would then be nailed up at the city gate so that all passing by could see that the man's debt was paid in full. All the negatives against that man were eradicated. Jesus Christ paid in full for all our debts of sin. He paid in full for our release from the bondage of the law. And he was subjected to pain, sickness, suffering, and death for us.


Colossians 2:14: Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross.

In doing this Jesus basicly makes us a new law. Galatians 6:2 Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ. Jesus Christ the prototype burden bearer of all time.
 

john313

warrior-poet
true blood said:
In the East, the name of a man who went bankrupt was posted at the gate of the city by the elders of that city, stating the names of his creditors and the amount of his debt. When all debts were completely paid, the elders would double the paper, folding together the writ of debts, so that all the debts were "blotted out". The folded-together document would then be nailed up at the city gate so that all passing by could see that the man's debt was paid in full. All the negatives against that man were eradicated. Jesus Christ paid in full for all our debts of sin. He paid in full for our release from the bondage of the law. And he was subjected to pain, sickness, suffering, and death for us.


Colossians 2:14: Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross.

In doing this Jesus basicly makes us a new law. Galatians 6:2 Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ. Jesus Christ the prototype burden bearer of all time.
nice story, but i have to pay my own debts to God and no quote from an enemy of James, the brother of Jesus and head of the Jerusalem church, can make me think otherwise.
 

john313

warrior-poet
NetDoc said:
You know john... you are the FIRST conspiracy theorist that has gone this far.
Everything i have stated has been written in books by others. i did not conspire anything. i am simply conveying truths that have been written for some time now. Believe whatever you want and worship your man god, which is foridden by God by the way, if that makes you feel better. And good luck with that. Just because you do not believe something does not make it a conspiracy. You should read history other than the bible. There are a lot of other books. I know education of this type is frowned upon by other christians since you might see the truth. Many christians ask me "why do you read that? just read the bible, it's the truth". Everyone except christians seem to understand seeking knowledge.
 

Ronald

Well-Known Member
true blood said:
In the East, the name of a man who went bankrupt was posted at the gate of the city by the elders of that city, stating the names of his creditors and the amount of his debt. When all debts were completely paid, the elders would double the paper, folding together the writ of debts, so that all the debts were "blotted out". The folded-together document would then be nailed up at the city gate so that all passing by could see that the man's debt was paid in full. All the negatives against that man were eradicated. Jesus Christ paid in full for all our debts of sin. He paid in full for our release from the bondage of the law. And he was subjected to pain, sickness, suffering, and death for us.


Colossians 2:14: Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross.

In doing this Jesus basicly makes us a new law. Galatians 6:2 Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ. Jesus Christ the prototype burden bearer of all time.
Finally one poster who understands the Word of God!
Mal 3:6 "For I the LORD do not change; therefore you, O sons of Jacob, are not consumed.
Heb 13:8 Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever.
No one, Yeshua nor God changed the Law or Torah.
Yeshua paid your debt! You are not under the curse of the Law which is the death penalty.
BUT!!! Heb 10:26 For if we sin deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,

Believe and Obey!

Mt 19:17 So He said to him, "Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments."
 

EnhancedSpirit

High Priestess
Give a man a fish, he eats for a day, teach the man to fish, and he eats everyday.

Jesus did not just give us a fish when he died for our sins. He taught us how to fish.
 

EnhancedSpirit

High Priestess
me said:
Give a man a fish, he eats for a day, teach the man to fish, and he eats everyday.

Jesus did not just give us a fish when he died for our sins. He taught us how to fish.

I thought of another way to explain this. Jesus said he 'fulfilled' the law (I say the law of Karma). He wiped us clean of our sins. He did not free us from the law (of Karma), he showed us how to free ourselves from the law.

The bible says that the sins of man were caused by one man, Adam. And the sins of man where forgiven by one man, Jesus.
This the law of Karma is either: 1) inherited from one generation to the next, until balanced, or 2) if you accept reincarnation, is carried from one life to the next until it is balanced.

The ten commandments are guidelines on how to keep your Karma balanced. Jesus came up with a condensed version of two, but the same basic guidelines as the 10. And Jesus SHOWED us. He led by example. He had every "right" to feel hatred or anger towards the people who said and did bad things to him, but he showed us that it is within us to experience suffering in the worst way, and still CHOOSE to love, and forgive, and wish well, those who hate us or that have done us wrong.
 

Pah

Uber all member
Give a man a fish, he eats for a day, teach the man to fish, and he eats everyday. If Jesus taught the man to fish - he didn't think far enough ahead. For when the man fishes he catches more than he can eat in a day and an industry is born. The fish get depleted and nature (that "other" law) suffers.

When ya throw out those "pithy" sayings for understanding, they get thrown back at ya with a better understanding.
:D
 

Steve

Active Member
john313 said:
nice story, but i have to pay my own debts to God and no quote from an enemy of James, the brother of Jesus and head of the Jerusalem church, can make me think otherwise.
John313 you will pay your own debts to God. Have you ever sinned? How can God accept you a sinner into heaven if you have a debt to his law? When is your debt ever cleared or do you belive that you are going to hell? Imagine how seriously a Holy, Righteous God sees your sin. If you refuse Gods grace and the sacrifice he made for you then make no mistake he is Just and Holy and will see to it that justice is served. Because he is Just he will not just let sinners of the hook without Justice being served, without excepting Jesus's payment for your sins, your prayers for forgivness are just an admission of your guilt. Gods grace gave us a way to stand befor him. Yet you stand opposed just like Paul did until Jesus spoke to him on Damascus Road, i hope your beliefs change dramatically befor you stand at the Judgement seat of God.
 

true blood

Active Member
john313 said:
Everything i have stated has been written in books by others. i did not conspire anything. i am simply conveying truths that have been written for some time now. Believe whatever you want and worship your man god, which is foridden by God by the way, if that makes you feel better. And good luck with that. Just because you do not believe something does not make it a conspiracy. You should read history other than the bible. There are a lot of other books. I know education of this type is frowned upon by other christians since you might see the truth. Many christians ask me "why do you read that? just read the bible, it's the truth". Everyone except christians seem to understand seeking knowledge.
I'm sure your a well meaning man but a well meaning person can still be wrong. And you can speak great truths but not truth for the given situation. Often, even in scripture the Devil quoted were true enough but he removed them from their context. Twisting and manipulating but probably due to lack of understanding or lack of belief in the Word of God.

Now this is just an idea of mine but I do not even think we are under the New Covenant. While I believe that the old covenant has passed away the scriptures teach that the "new" covenant is held in abeyance. It will be in effect when Israel is reestablished as stated in Revelation, for then Jesus Christ will again be present to reign over Israel in the Kingdom of Heaven. The prophecy is Jeremiah 31:31-34. Furthermore, this new covenant does not directly apply to those in the church of the body. It was for Israel. But it is very real and a practical sense to enjoy the benefits of that covenant and the accomplishments of Christ which made the covenant possible. When Israel rejected Jesus as the Messiah, that new covenant he established was withdrawn and is being held in abeyance. But in its place God made something much greater available to both Israel and the Gentiles, namely, the great Mystery-that the Gentiles are fellowheirs and of the same Body, each individual believer having Christ in him. Unfortunately it seems that only a small segment of Israel ever came to the point of accepting this opportunity to appropriate the greatness which God brought about.
 

john313

warrior-poet
Steve said:
John313 you will pay your own debts to God. Have you ever sinned? How can God accept you a sinner into heaven if you have a debt to his law? When is your debt ever cleared or do you belive that you are going to hell? Imagine how seriously a Holy, Righteous God sees your sin. If you refuse Gods grace and the sacrifice he made for you then make no mistake he is Just and Holy and will see to it that justice is served. Because he is Just he will not just let sinners of the hook without Justice being served, without excepting Jesus's payment for your sins, your prayers for forgivness are just an admission of your guilt. Gods grace gave us a way to stand befor him. Yet you stand opposed just like Paul did until Jesus spoke to him on Damascus Road, i hope your beliefs change dramatically befor you stand at the Judgement seat of God.
i have plenty of sins in my past. i do not believe i am going to hell and i do not believe someone else can pay my debt for me.
And your idea of "Justice being served" is someone else being tortured and murdered for something he did not do? Do you realize how insane that sounds? That is quite the opposite of justice.
Thank you for the concern, but it is not necessary. :)
Peace
 

Yasin

Member
Linus said:
I believe so. The book of Romans deals heavily with this subject and after studying it carefully, it should be clear that the answer to your question is a resounding "yes".
Tell me what did Jesus (pbuh) say in Matthew 5:17-20, who are we to say otherwise, as far as i am concerned Jesus's (pbuh) words measure up to the real teachings, who was the writer of Romens?........... Paul, yes............Who never bet Jesus Christ (pbuh).
The Servent is not greater then the Master.

Respectively, Yasin:bounce
 

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
Yasin said:
Tell me what did Jesus (pbuh) say in Matthew 5:17-20, who are we to say otherwise, as far as i am concerned Jesus's (pbuh) words measure up to the real teachings, who was the writer of Romens?........... Paul, yes............Who never bet Jesus Christ (pbuh).
Nor is their reason to believe that Matthew, writing three decades later, ever met the man. At the very best all you have is hearsay.
 

Popeyesays

Well-Known Member
Jayhawker Soule said:
Nor is their reason to believe that Matthew, writing three decades later, ever met the man. At the very best all you have is hearsay.
Jesus reiterates the essence of the law in the Gospels. Nowhere in His own words does He release us from them. Paul was trying to make a point and overstated it at the same time.
I do not believe Jesus would harness us with Kosher law, for instance, but spiritual law is right there in His words.

Regards,
Scott
 

Popeyesays

Well-Known Member
Jayhawker Soule said:
Nowhere do you have his own words.
If the words of Moses can be heard in the Torah, which was written as we know it about two hundred years before Christ, then we can hear the words of Jesus in the Gospels.

Regards,
Scott
 

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
Popeyesays said:
If the words of Moses can be heard in the Torah, which was written as we know it about two hundred years before Christ, then we can hear the words of Jesus in the Gospels.
Oy veh! What makes you think that (a) there was a Moses, (b) the words of Moses can be heard in the Torah, or (c) the Torah was written about 200 BCE? :rolleyes:
 

Popeyesays

Well-Known Member
Jayhawker Soule said:
Oy veh! What makes you think that (a) there was a Moses, (b) the words of Moses can be heard in the Torah, or (c) the Torah was written about 200 BCE? :rolleyes:
Well, does your "Oy Vey!" come from a practicing Jew, a cultural Jew, or a totally unbelieving Jew, or a mocker of Jews? I ask because it would help to formulate an answer for you.

Regards,
Scott
 

Scuba Pete

Le plongeur avec attitude...
Yasin said:
Tell me what did Jesus (pbuh) say in Matthew 5:17-20, who are we to say otherwise, as far as i am concerned Jesus's (pbuh) words measure up to the real teachings, who was the writer of Romens?........... Paul, yes............Who never bet Jesus Christ (pbuh).
The Servent is not greater then the Master.
I quoted this very verse in post 5 of this thread. Jesus completed the law. Romans goes into great detail exactly what this means to us.

I took out a mortgage on this house I live in. I have to pay for it monthly. If I stop, they get upset and will hurt me financially UNLESS I have fulfilled my obligation. The mortgage (law) ceases to be relevant when the obligation (Jesus' death) has been met. Again, Romans discusses this in detail.

PS, I would think that the only one foolish enough to "bet Jesus" was Satan himself. :D
 
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