Gospels on Saved by Grace

idav · Jul 5, 2012

Did Jesus advocate saved by grace. Many verses show Jesus to say to keep the commandments of God. Jesus didn't even say believing in him is good enough.

"Many will cry Lord but I will say I don't know you doer of iniquity."

Saved by grace does come show a lot outside the gospels but where did that theology come from?

Some verses say "nobody is good but god" which some use against the use of works yet a few verses later Jesus tells the guy exactly what to do and to follow him (works).

I know that there is a big thing about people knowing but there is also something to be said of those once they "know" they aren't always saved.

What else did Jesus say about it?

javajo · Jul 5, 2012

My belief is we must remember that Jesus was speaking to OT Jews, not NT Saints. We are under a New Covenant, the age of Grace. Even so, when asked what they may do to do the works of God, he told them the work of God is to believe on the one who he sent (Jesus). All the people that said they did all these great works for him are turned away. All the good works we do cannot pay the penalty of sin (death). Only Christ did that, and only he can save us, we cannot save ourselves or do anything to help save ourselves but accept the free gift. We are freely saved by faith UNTO good works. Good works are great for one who has been saved, not to earn salvation or help earn or help keep it, but because God has prepared them for us. We are saved and kept by the power of God. God does the saving, God does the keeping, that no man may boast and Christ gets all the glory. If we could have done enough good works, or kept the Law well enough to save ourselves, Christ would not have had to die. Ok, that's just my belief.

Rocky S · Jul 5, 2012

idav said:
Did Jesus advocate saved by grace. Many verses show Jesus to say to keep the commandments of God. Jesus didn't even say believing in him is good enough.

"Many will cry Lord but I will say I don't know you doer of iniquity."

Saved by grace does come show a lot outside the gospels but where did that theology come from?

Some verses say "nobody is good but god" which some use against the use of works yet a few verses later Jesus tells the guy exactly what to do and to follow him (works).

I know that there is a big thing about people knowing but there is also something to be said of those once they "know" they aren't always saved.

What else did Jesus say about it?

He did use the term believe, as in John 3:16. But you must have faith that expresses itself through love. You cannot separate faith from works and works from faith, the book of James explains that. There is christian denominations that do teach you can live anyway you want and be saved that is not biblical, that is Calvinism. How ever proper faith will produce works so to-speak. Even in other places Jesus said the work of God is this to believe on the one who he has sent. But also says if you love me you will keep my commandments. You see how faith and works cannot be separated. When Paul's speaks of saved by grace through faith and not of works in his epistles. He is not talking about benevolence and showing love he is talking about the works of the ceremonial law circumcision, sabbath keeping, etc. Christ speaks of love for God and love for fellow man. The book of James speaks of that as well. How ever one must have faith is Christ ie, his death burial and resurrection. So if you try to separate the two (faith and works), it will only lead to confusion.

idav · Jul 5, 2012

Sounds like works are ok however just not with a selfish attitude. Works should be in humbleness for God. The things we do always matter. Belief is one thing but judgement is said to be based on what we have done and the bible implies that intent has a lot to do with it.

Something mentioned in the OP is Jesus saying that someone might think they know christ but he wouldn't know them. What does that mean, that they didn't believe correctly or that their heart wasn't in the right place?

javajo · Jul 8, 2012

idav said:
Something mentioned in the OP is Jesus saying that someone might think they know christ but he wouldn't know them. What does that mean, that they didn't believe correctly or that their heart wasn't in the right place?

Hi, its from Mathew 7:

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

I believe these people were boasting about the great works and things THEY had done, expecting to earn salvation by their own dead works. But salvation is a free gift. Once someone offers up something THEY do in addition to Christ's finished work on the cross, it is no longer a gift but 'wages earned.' No amount of 'dead works' can pay the penalty for sin. The penalty of sin is death. To do that, one may either trust Christ, that he paid the penalty of our sins, he died on the cross, or one must, while yet spiritually dead in their trespasses and sins, die physically and go to Hell forever. Good works are a result of salvation, we are saved UNTO good works that God has prepared for us to do. A freely saved person who has trusted alone in Christ alone by faith alone for salvation will, either faithfully, often, or less so, do good works. When men see our good conduct and love and works, they see we have been justified before God, the works are evidence. Some do not have much works, but anyone who has been saved, will someway, somehow, sometime do good works. We will see the evidence of their growing in grace by the fruits of the Spirit manifest in their life; love, joy, peace, patience, gentleness, goodness, meekness, faith, etc. Some folks will have great reward and position in the next life, while others will not. They will be saved, 'yet as by fire', with their life burnt up in the judgement fire like wood, hay, and stubble, while some will have gold, silver, precious stones, and crowns earned by their works they did after they were freely saved.

idav · Jul 8, 2012

javajo said:
Hi, its from Mathew 7:

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

I believe these people were boasting about the great works and things THEY had done, expecting to earn salvation by their own dead works. But salvation is a free gift. Once someone offers up something THEY do in addition to Christ's finished work on the cross, it is no longer a gift but 'wages earned.' No amount of 'dead works' can pay the penalty for sin. The penalty of sin is death. To do that, one may either trust Christ, that he paid the penalty of our sins, he died on the cross, or one must, while yet spiritually dead in their trespasses and sins, die physically and go to Hell forever. Good works are a result of salvation, we are saved UNTO good works that God has prepared for us to do. A freely saved person who has trusted alone in Christ alone by faith alone for salvation will, either faithfully, often, or less so, do good works. When men see our good conduct and love and works, they see we have been justified before God, the works are evidence. Some do not have much works, but anyone who has been saved, will someway, somehow, sometime do good works. We will see the evidence of their growing in grace by the fruits of the Spirit manifest in their life; love, joy, peace, patience, gentleness, goodness, meekness, faith, etc. Some folks will have great reward and position in the next life, while others will not. They will be saved, 'yet as by fire', with their life burnt up in the judgement fire like wood, hay, and stubble, while some will have gold, silver, precious stones, and crowns earned by their works they did after they were freely saved.

The verse mentioned is about someone literally doing evil but using the lords name. In another place in scripture Jesus doesn't see anything wrong with someone who was doing a good work in Jesus name, the apostles questioned him on it cause the guy didn't want to follow them.

Mark 9
38 And John answered him, saying, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not us: and we forbad him, because he followeth not us. 39 But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me. 40 For he that is not against us is on our part. 41 For whosoever shall give you a cup of water to drink in my name, because ye belong to Christ, verily I say unto you, he shall not lose his reward.

outhouse · Jul 8, 2012

idav said:
Did Jesus advocate saved by grace. Many verses show Jesus to say to keep the commandments of God. Jesus didn't even say believing in him is good enough.

"Many will cry Lord but I will say I don't know you doer of iniquity."

Saved by grace does come show a lot outside the gospels but where did that theology come from?

Some verses say "nobody is good but god" which some use against the use of works yet a few verses later Jesus tells the guy exactly what to do and to follow him (works).

I know that there is a big thing about people knowing but there is also something to be said of those once they "know" they aren't always saved.

What else did Jesus say about it?

how can we know what jesus stated ?

when he taught jews not romans, the people who oppressed him and the people who wrote about him in their hellenistic ideals??? and then deified him, not knowing him, hearing him, or even living where he lived, and not even belonging to the same culture??

idav · Jul 8, 2012

outhouse said:
how can we know what jesus stated ?

when he taught jews not romans, the people who oppressed him and the people who wrote about him in their hellenistic ideals??? and then deified him, not knowing him, hearing him, or even living where he lived, and not even belonging to the same culture??

Because the words of christ speak more truth than most others. I don't think they came up with it on their own, the words were similar to Buddha who is thought to have been enlightened. Similarly we don't have writings directly from Buddha but second hand from followers.

Would be nice if the writers had actually met Jesus, hopefully the oral tradition was sufficient to get most of the message.

Seems to not be a huge problem, similar sayings of christ were reported in areas far from each other, either something was written to go from or the oral tradition caught a lot of the actual sayings.

BSM1 · Jul 8, 2012

One thing I think is overlooked is a problem we experience here in this forum-inflection. Unless it's spelled out differently you can only assume someone state of mind when reading what they say. Was Yeshua upset when he said this or that, kidding, presenting a koan, was he smiling, frowning? Nuances are hard to determine from one dimensional text, and we all know that one statement can having many meanings.

javajo · Jul 8, 2012

idav said:
The verse mentioned is about someone literally doing evil but using the lords name. In another place in scripture Jesus doesn't see anything wrong with someone who was doing a good work in Jesus name, the apostles questioned him on it cause the guy didn't want to follow them.

Actually, I believe the people thought they were doing good things to earn Heaven and are surprised when the good things, like casting out devils, prophesying and and 'wonderful works', did not earn them a place there. They were workers of iniquity because they were saying they or anyone else could obtain salvation on their own merit thus turning them away from the one true way, which is simple faith in Christ, which gives him all the glory. Ephesians and many other books discuss this:

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. Ephesians 2

Would be nice if the writers had actually met Jesus, hopefully the oral tradition was sufficient to get most of the message.

One of the criteria for a book to be in the canon of scripture is the author had to have apostolicity. He had to have know Christ or been a disciple or apostle. Different subject, though.

Luminous · Jul 9, 2012

Saved by faith? I don't think so. If Jesus was talking to the Jews why didn't he just tell them: "forget it, stop being Jews, you can be saved if you do as the Gentiles do" ? Ridiculous gentile ideas just like Hellenism, very desperate. Works are a sign of faith, So anyone who casts out demons has faith, otherwise they couldn't do it. Right? Or perhaps Jesus WAS a follower of the Lord of the Flies? Or perhaps his followers were mislead by Satan because they actually lacked faith since they believed Jesus was dead, even though he TOLD them he would be resurrected on the third day to match with Jewish idol prophesies.

Gospels on Saved by Grace

idav

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javajo

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Rocky S

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idav

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javajo

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idav

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outhouse

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idav

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BSM1

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javajo

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Luminous

non-existential luminary