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The idea of receiving Jesus - John 1:12

javajo

Well-Known Member
24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. John 5...

Hi Javajo,
Why would those who receive Him AND believed in His name be given the right/authority/power to BECOME...? Those words were not put there for no reason. They mean what they said. It does not allow for receiving Him 'as savior', because people who are already children of God don't need to be given the right to become children of God.
Hi, what I believe is we were saved when we trusted Christ, and we were justified before God, but we were sanctified (set apart, being made holy), yet are being sanctified and will be ultimately sanctified when we are transformed at the Rapture/Resurrection. So, we are children of God and also becoming children of God, we are growing in grace and one day it will be complete when we are finally made immortal and sinless when we are changed.

(Note the red words in the above, blue-letter verse, we HAVE, present tense, everlasting life and we ARE, right now, passed from death to life. and we SHALL NOT COME, ever, into condemnation. Just as the following verses show):

For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light: Eph. 5:8
13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: 14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: Col. 1
For yeare all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. Gal. 3:26
The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God. Romans 8:16

Note, we ARE, NOW the children of God.

And not only so, we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement. Rom. 5:11

And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened (made alive) together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; Col.2:13
Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved) Eph. 2:5
And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; Eph. 2:1

Notice this is PAST tense. He HAS made us alive, he HAS forgiven us ALL sins, we WERE dead, but are NOW alive. This is very plain in scripture.

Acts at Pentecost doesn't say anything to the effect that the 3000 were saved when they believed.
It does: Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls. Acts 2:41
 

e.r.m.

Church of Christ
There's a lot here. Here goes.
(I appreciate your thoroughness.)

Hi, what I believe is we were saved when we trusted Christ, and we were justified before God, but we were sanctified (set apart, being made holy), yet are being sanctified and will be ultimately sanctified when we are transformed at the Rapture/Resurrection. So, we are children of God and also becoming children of God, we are growing in grace and one day it will be complete when we are finally made immortal and sinless when we are changed.

(Note the red words in the above, blue-letter verse, we HAVE, present tense, everlasting life and we ARE, right now, passed from death to life. and we SHALL NOT COME, ever, into condemnation. Just as the following verses show):

For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light: Eph. 5:8
13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: 14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: Col. 1
For yeare all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. Gal. 3:26
The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God. Romans 8:16

Note, we ARE, NOW the children of God.
Wow that's complicated. I have heard this before in a different form, but it's complicated. More complicated than believing being a step along the way.

In John 8:31-32, 34, 36
To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, "If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. [32] Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free." [34] Jesus replied, "I tell you the truth, everyone who sins is a slave to sin. [36] So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed.

the Jews already did believe, yet Jesus was still talking to them about knowing the truth and being set free from sin.

In this sense I'll say the gospel is more simple.


And not only so, we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement. Rom. 5:11

And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened (made alive) together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; Col.2:13
Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved) Eph. 2:5
And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; Eph. 2:1

Notice this is PAST tense. He HAS made us alive, he HAS forgiven us ALL sins, we WERE dead, but are NOW alive. This is very plain in scripture.
In all these except John 5:24 (before the post resurrection commands on baptism) the past tense just as easily refers to having forgiven trespasses when one was baptized. Colossians 2:12 even mentions baptism. The "hear" my words in John 5:24 is the same greek word "hear" in
Matthew 7:26-27 But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand. [27] The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell with a great crash."
John 5:24 is in more likelihood a general principal, since Jesus also sets other requirements in Luke 13:5, etc.


It does: Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls. Acts 2:41
It does not. It says (NASB) those who had received his word were baptized it doesn't say those who were saved were baptized. It doesn't say they were saved when they believed/or received.
 
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e.r.m.

Church of Christ
What did Jesus say he "believed?"
After his resurrection, Jesus said Mark 16:16 "He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned.

I hope I understood your question correctly. If not, let me know.
 
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Awoon

Well-Known Member
After his resurrection, Jesus said Mark 16:16 "He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned.

I hope I understood your question correctly. If not, let me know.



My question was, what did Jesus say he believed?
 

greentwiga

Active Member
Well, It seems funny that Jesus would need to trust himself. I do know what Jesus did not believe. He did not entrust Himself to men for He knew what was in men. John 2:24 (Belief, faith, and trust are the same word in Greek.)
 

e.r.m.

Church of Christ
Anything. Where is Jesus quoted as saying he believed anything.
Ok.
(NASB) John 12:47-50
"If anyone hears My sayings and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world. [48] "He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day. [49] "For I did not speak on My own initiative, but the Father Himself who sent Me has given Me a commandment as to what to say and what to speak. [50] "I know that His commandment is eternal life; therefore the things I speak, I speak just as the Father has told Me."
 
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javajo

Well-Known Member
There's a lot here. Here goes.
(I appreciate your thoroughness.)
Thanks.
Wow that's complicated. I have heard this before in a different form, but it's complicated. More complicated than believing being a step along the way.

In John 8:31-32, 34, 36
To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, "If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. [32] Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free." [34] Jesus replied, "I tell you the truth, everyone who sins is a slave to sin. [36] So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed.

the Jews already did believe, yet Jesus was still talking to them about knowing the truth and being set free from sin.

In this sense I'll say the gospel is more simple.
I believe we are to hold to the simplicity of the Gospel, its not complicated. We are sinners, the penalty is death, so Christ died. If we trust he paid the penalty for our sins, we believe in/on Christ and his finished work on the cross, we are saved right then. Growth, becoming more like Christ and free from sin, is another matter altogether.

In all these except John 5:24 (before the post resurrection commands on baptism) the past tense just as easily refers to having forgiven trespasses when one was baptized. Colossians 2:12 even mentions baptism. The "hear" my words in John 5:24 is the same greek word "hear" in
Matthew 7:26-27 But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand. [27] The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell with a great crash."
John 5:24 is in more likelihood a general principal, since Jesus also sets other requirements in Luke 13:5, etc.
We are forgiven when we believe, baptism is an outward sign of that, and our first act of obedience to God, is my belief. The only requirement to be saved is that we be found a sinner in need of grace or totally undeserved and unmerited favor so no one may boast but Christ gets all the glory.

It does not. It says (NASB) those who had received his word were baptized it doesn't say those who were saved were baptized. It doesn't say they were saved when they believed/or received.
All I am saying is that on that day, 3,000 souls were saved (Acts 2:41). I see that you are trying to say that Baptism is a 'condition' for salvation, to which I do not agree. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God. To be saved one hears the gospel and believes it and is saved. Now if I only had that one verse that said that he who believes and is baptized is saved, then I would agree with you. Fortunately I have the rest of scripture that explains it in more detail. Getting wet never saved anyone, although I'm all for it, but believing in Christ is what saves us. Trusting alone in Christ alone, by faith alone, nothing we 'do', no 'dead works' that we do added, so that we may not boast that we did something to earn salvation, for it is a free gift and all the glory is Christ's. That is my belief and understanding of scripture. Thanks.
 

e.r.m.

Church of Christ
Thanks.
I believe we are to hold to the simplicity of the Gospel, its not complicated. We are sinners, the penalty is death, so Christ died. If we trust he paid the penalty for our sins, we believe in/on Christ and his finished work on the cross, we are saved right then. Growth, becoming more like Christ and free from sin, is another matter altogether.
I dedicated a thread to what I call the simple gospel, a la Billy Sunday, who also seems to have coined the phrase "Accept Jesus." The gospel includes, but is not abbreviated to just the sacrifice and the born again event, but includes everything in Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. The gospel includes all the heart preparation that Jesus did AND DOES to prepare the people's heart toward that ultimate decision of following Jesus, including the beattitudes, the rich young ruler and the lesson on wealth, estimating the costs beforehand of that decision (e.g. - Luke 14:25-30.), and much much more that Jesus taught before the three thousand were saved at Pentecost.
In any case, belief granting one the right to become a child of God, is still simpler than being a child of God and then REALLY becoming a child of God. I don't see that vocabulary in the Bible.
I do see John 1:12 Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God---
What the scripture just says here is simpler than filling in an eloborate explanation. A child of God is a child of God.


...baptism is an outward sign of that, and our first act of obedience to God, is my belief.
Simplicity is going by what the Bible says on baptism.
I will never understand why people in essence say, "I reject Acts 2:38's baptism for forgiveness of sins, in favor of baptism as an outward sign and act of obedience, that the Bible never says. The Bible matters less than my tradition on this one." I am curious as to how you turn a blind eye to Acts 2:38. What you tell yourself about Acts 2:38. I ask this sincerely, no sarcasm intended.


The only requirement to be saved is that we be found a sinner in need of grace or totally undeserved and unmerited favor so no one may boast but Christ gets all the glory.
There is no presidence for people boasting in being baptized, as with Naaman, who boasted in the God of Israel Only. Baptism for salvation is not excluded.

All I am saying is that on that day, 3,000 souls were saved (Acts 2:41). I see that you are trying to say that Baptism is a 'condition' for salvation, to which I do not agree.
To be a bit more clear, the Bible lists salvation and forgiveness of sins as the "purpose(s)" of baptism.

Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God. To be saved one hears the gospel and believes it and is saved. Now if I only had that one verse that said that he who believes and is baptized is saved, Mark 16:16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. then I would agree with you. Ready to agree?

Fortunately I have the rest of scripture that explains it in more detail. Getting wet never saved anyone, although I'm all for it, but believing in Christ is what saves us. Trusting alone in Christ alone, by faith alone, nothing we 'do', no 'dead works' that we do added, so that we may not boast that we did something to earn salvation, for it is a free gift and all the glory is Christ's.
There is no scripture that says faith alone, so baptism is not excluded.
James 2:24 says not by faith alone.

Since baptism is not a work (Biblically), then baptism is not excluded.


That is my belief and understanding of scripture. Thanks.
You have a very nice disposition. Noted.
 
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e.r.m.

Church of Christ
Then religions should promote knowing instead of believing.
I was only referring to Jesus.
Speaking only of Christianity:
When we're talking about Jesus coming down after being with the Father for eternity, that's a whole level of knowledge and understanding that goes way beyond opinion. Jesus knew what was up. He knew whatever the Father said was it. God calls the shots. As a result of Jesus coming down, we can know God a lot more than before, on a personal, not just an academic level. We are not God, it takes work to believe in God and Christ (John 6:28-29), because it's easier to believe what we want to believe, instead of trusting in our creator that He knows better than we do. Isaiah 55:9. Relationships are about believing in and trusting, not just knowing. The Isrealites "knew" that God rescued them from egypt, but it still took a conscious decision to trust God's plan for them from then on. God places a huge deal on faith, trust, belief in Him.
 
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Awoon

Well-Known Member
I was only referring to Jesus.
Speaking only of Christianity:
When we're talking about Jesus coming down after being with the Father for eternity, that's a whole level of knowledge and understanding that goes way beyond opinion. Jesus knew what was up. He knew whatever the Father said was it. God calls the shots. As a result of Jesus coming down, we can know God a lot more than before, on a personal, not just an academic level. We are not God, it takes work to believe in God and Christ (John 6:28-29), because it's easier to believe what we want to believe, instead of trusting in our creator that He knows better than we do. Isaiah 55:9. Relationships are about believing in and trusting, not just knowing. The Isrealites "knew" that God rescued them from egypt, but it still took a conscious decision to trust God's plan for them from then on. God places a huge deal on faith, trust, belief in Him.

Believing in myths is easier then knowing it's a myth.
 

sincerly

Well-Known Member
1. What is the modern definition of "receiving Jesus?" I have heard the modern definition means 'received him as savior'. Am I right?
2. What was the original intent when John wrote "To all who received Him..."?

3. Do the two match?

The greek for the word receive in John 1:12 is

λαμβνω,v \{lam-ban'-o}
1) to take 1a) to take with the hand, lay hold of, any person or thing in order to use it 1a1) to take up a thing to be carried 1a2) to take upon one's self 1b) to take in order to carry away 1b1) without the notion of violence, i,e to remove, take away 1c) to take what is one's own, to take to one's self, to make one's own 1c1) to claim, procure, for one's self 1c1a) to associate with one's self as companion, attendant 1c2) of that which when taken is not let go, to seize, to lay hold of, apprehend 1c3) to take by craft (our catch, used of hunters, fisherman, etc.), to circumvent one by fraud 1c4) to take to one's self, lay hold upon, take possession of, i.e. to appropriat to one's self 1c5) catch at, reach after, strive to obtain 1c6) to take a thing due, to collect, gather (tribute) 1d) to take 1d1) to admit, receive 1d2) to receive what is offered 1d3) not to refuse or reject 1d4) to receive a person, givehim access to one's self, 1d41) to regard any one's power, rank, external circumstances, and on that account to do some injustice or neglect something 1e) to take, to choose, select 1f) to take beginning, to prove anything, to make a trial of, to experience 2) to receive (what is given), to gain, get, obtain, to get back

Personally, I don't believe John 1:12 reads

Yet to all who received him 'as savior', to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God---

Because:
1. If John had meant received 'as savior', as is a popular notion today, then they would not need the right/power to become children of God, as they would already be children of God, by virtue of having received Him as savior.

2. Chronologically, it makes more sense that, as the ones who gave Jesus a deserving reception, as opposed to those who rejected him, that they would be the ones granted the right to become His children.

3. It says that to all who received him, believed in His name, He gave the right/power/authority to become children of God. That's different than already being there.

4. It simply does not say, -Yet to all who received him 'As savior'...

Your "because" conclusion in this topic is as flawed as the other one. But both are ignoring Jesus as Savior of sinful mankind(by HIS Death/shed blood) to push an belief that "baptism" saves one.

The context here contradicts you surmisings as well.
 

javajo

Well-Known Member
Thanks.
I believe we are to hold to the simplicity of the Gospel, its not complicated. We are sinners, the penalty is death, so Christ died. If we trust he paid the penalty for our sins, we believe in/on Christ and his finished work on the cross, we are saved right then. Growth, becoming more like Christ and free from sin, is another matter altogether.
I dedicated a thread to what I call the simple gospel, a la Billy Sunday, who also seems to have coined the phrase "Accept Jesus." The gospel includes, but is not abbreviated to just the sacrifice and the born again event, but includes everything in Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. The gospel includes all the heart preparation that Jesus did AND DOES to prepare the people's heart toward that ultimate decision of following Jesus, including the beattitudes, the rich young ruler and the lesson on wealth, estimating the costs beforehand of that decision (e.g. - Luke 14:25-30.), and much much more that Jesus taught before the three thousand were saved at Pentecost.
In any case, belief granting one the right to become a child of God, is still simpler than being a child of God and then REALLY becoming a child of God. I don't see that vocabulary in the Bible.
I do see John 1:12 Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God---
What the scripture just says here is simpler than filling in an eloborate explanation. A child of God is a child of God.


...baptism is an outward sign of that, and our first act of obedience to God, is my belief.
Simplicity is going by what the Bible says on baptism.
I will never understand why people in essence say, "I reject Acts 2:38's baptism for forgiveness of sins, in favor of baptism as an outward sign and act of obedience, that the Bible never says. The Bible matters less than my tradition on this one." I am curious as to how you turn a blind eye to Acts 2:38. What you tell yourself about Acts 2:38. I ask this sincerely, no sarcasm intended.


The only requirement to be saved is that we be found a sinner in need of grace or totally undeserved and unmerited favor so no one may boast but Christ gets all the glory.
There is no presidence for people boasting in being baptized, as with Naaman, who boasted in the God of Israel Only. Baptism for salvation is not excluded.

All I am saying is that on that day, 3,000 souls were saved (Acts 2:41). I see that you are trying to say that Baptism is a 'condition' for salvation, to which I do not agree.
To be a bit more clear, the Bible lists salvation and forgiveness of sins as the "purpose(s)" of baptism.

Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God. To be saved one hears the gospel and believes it and is saved. Now if I only had that one verse that said that he who believes and is baptized is saved, Mark 16:16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. then I would agree with you. Ready to agree?

Fortunately I have the rest of scripture that explains it in more detail. Getting wet never saved anyone, although I'm all for it, but believing in Christ is what saves us. Trusting alone in Christ alone, by faith alone, nothing we 'do', no 'dead works' that we do added, so that we may not boast that we did something to earn salvation, for it is a free gift and all the glory is Christ's.
There is no scripture that says faith alone, so baptism is not excluded.
James 2:24 says not by faith alone.

Since baptism is not a work (Biblically), then baptism is not excluded.


That is my belief and understanding of scripture. Thanks.
You have a very nice disposition. Noted.
I guess we understand the Bible and salvation and baptism very differently. No point in arguing about it.
 

sincerly

Well-Known Member
(answers in blue)

javajo said:
I believe we are to hold to the simplicity of the Gospel, its not complicated. We are sinners, the penalty is death, so Christ died. If we trust he paid the penalty for our sins, we believe in/on Christ and his finished work on the cross, we are saved right then. Growth, becoming more like Christ and free from sin, is another matter altogether.

I am curious as to how you turn a blind eye to Acts 2:38. What you tell yourself about Acts 2:38. I ask this sincerely, no sarcasm intended.

Jo, While Jesus did finish HIS portion of the salvation process upon the cross at Calvary and all who believe HIS Shed blood set them free from past sins, ALL cannot be guaranteed of a place in the new earth until that Resurrection day. (tanget alert) ALL have the freedom to revert to following the "old man of Sin". Gal.2:18 (agreed, another matter.)

e r.m., A blind eye isn't turned to Acts 2:---all of the context is noted and correctly understood in that context.

javajo said:
All I am saying is that on that day, 3,000 souls were saved (Acts 2:41). I see that you are trying to say that Baptism is a 'condition' for salvation, to which I do not agree.

To be a bit more clear, the Bible lists salvation and forgiveness of sins as the "purpose(s)" of baptism.

Baptism isn't the "purpose(s)" of Salvation. Yes, it is seen as showing "forgiveness" as Jesus said, "Ye must be born-again".
GOD the Father is faithful(and just) to "forgive" as long as one repents and comes to the Advocate we have before the Father--Christ Jesus. However, the heart/mind is known by both.

javajo said:
Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God. To be saved one hears the gospel and believes it and is saved. Now if I only had that one verse that said that he who believes and is baptized is saved, then I would agree with you.

Mark 16:16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.
Ready to agree?

NO! The saving is in the believing in the Atoning Blood of Jesus...and not in the being Baptized.
Likewise, the not believing results in the condemnation. The thief believed and will be saved, but wasn't baptized.


javajo said:
Fortunately I have the rest of scripture that explains it in more detail. Getting wet never saved anyone, although I'm all for it, but believing in Christ is what saves us. Trusting alone in Christ alone, by faith alone, nothing we 'do', no 'dead works' that we do added, so that we may not boast that we did something to earn salvation, for it is a free gift and all the glory is Christ's.

There is no scripture that says faith alone, so baptism is not excluded.
James 2:24 says not by faith alone.

Since baptism is not a work (Biblically), then baptism is not excluded.

e r.m., As Eph.2:8-10; 1:4, corrects, "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. "
"According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: ..."

Baptism like repentance, confession, submitting, Obeying, etc, is all part of that "good works" rooted in "LOVE."
 
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