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Is the Bible the inspired word of God?

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
By the way:
Exodus 20:13: You shall not murder.
From Alter:
Readers thoroughly conditioned by the King James Version's "Thou shalt not kill" need to be reminded that the Hebrew verb ratzach (רָצַח) clearly means "murder," not "kill," and so the ban is specifically on criminal acts of taking life.​
Sarna [JPS]
The King James Version and other older translations had "kill." However, the usual words for killing are not used here, rather it is ratzach, which generally refes to unauthorized homocide, perhaps one that called forth blood vengeance, רָצַח came to be associated with killing out of hatred and malice.​
Plaut
As indicated above, only unauthorized homicide is meant by the text, and the older translation "You shall not kill" was too general and did not represent the more specific meaning of לא תרצח. Hence the claims of pacifists who would see this command as a prohibition of all killing including that legitimized by the state during warfare, cannot be sustained. The same is true for the abolition of capital punishment. Laudable as these objectives are, they find no warranty in the text itself, which has been used to legitimize other prohibitions as well.​
Those who insist on rendering the term as 'kill' are simply serving an agenda and doing an injustice to the topic at hand.
 
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Scuba Pete

Le plongeur avec attitude...
How do people not understand what a circular argument is? How can you not understand that this conversation is logically fallacious?

Person 1: “Does God exist?”
Person 2: “Yes!”
Person 1: “How do you know?”
Person 2: “The Bible says so!”
Person 1: “How do you know the Bible is true?”
Person 2: “Because it says it’s the word of God!”

This doesn’t answer any questions
I have never heard a theists use this construct. It's a red herring and condescending. Christianity is a revealed religion. God has revealed himself to us. Sometimes that revelation comes through the scriptures, sometimes through a sunset and often through a time of crisis. There are as many ways to have God revealed to you as there are theists in the world.

The evidence is spiritual: not physical. If you have limited your presence here on earth to only appreciating the physical, then you can't hope to see God. In fact it would take a miracle, and that's yet another way to have God revealed to you. :D

Ephesians 1:15 For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all God’s people, 16 I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers. 17 I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the Spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. 18 I pray that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in his holy people, 19 and his incomparably great power for us who believe. NIV
 

waitasec

Veteran Member
I have never heard a theists use this construct. It's a red herring and condescending. Christianity is a revealed religion. God has revealed himself to us. Sometimes that revelation comes through the scriptures, sometimes through a sunset and often through a time of crisis. There are as many ways to have God revealed to you as there are theists in the world.

The evidence is spiritual: not physical. If you have limited your presence here on earth to only appreciating the physical, then you can't hope to see God. In fact it would take a miracle, and that's yet another way to have God revealed to you. :D

Ephesians 1:15 For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all God’s people, 16 I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers. 17 I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the Spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. 18 I pray that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in his holy people, 19 and his incomparably great power for us who believe. NIV

with all due respect. why did you quote the bible to prove the bibles validity?
in order for me to be persuaded i need evidence of the "spiritual" to be validated not by what want to be real but what IS real.

what makes this an "IS" and not a "WANT" for you?
 
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sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
with all due respect. why did you quote the bible to prove the bibles validity?
in order for me to be persuaded i need evidence of the "spiritual" to be validated not by what want to be real but what IS real.

what makes this an "IS" and not a "WANT" for you?
He didn't use the bible to prove the bible's validity. He used the bible to support his theology. There's a huge difference. Your post looks like desperate nitpicking. You're better than that!
 

waitasec

Veteran Member
He didn't use the bible to prove the bible's validity. He used the bible to support his theology. There's a huge difference. Your post looks like desperate nitpicking. You're better than that!

right he used a passage in the bible to 'support' his theology that the bible is valid... there is no difference.

come on...
 
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sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
right he used a passage in the bible to 'support' his theology that the bible is valid... there is no difference.

come on...
He's not doing that. His theology is that Xy is a revealed religion -- and that understanding is scripturally-supported. In fact, the reference he used opposes the notion that the bible validates itself.:facepalm:
 

waitasec

Veteran Member
He's not doing that. His theology is that Xy is a revealed religion -- and that understanding is scripturally-supported. In fact, the reference he used opposes the notion that the bible validates itself.:facepalm:

no it doesn't

18 I pray that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in his holy people, 19 and his incomparably great power for us who believe.
 

Alceste

Vagabond
So in another thread I'm doing called Biblical Contradictions I'm having quite a few people post that they don't believe the bible is God's inspired word. If you do believe it is why? And if you don't please also give a reason as to why not.

I don't believe it's divinely inspired because I've read it. Le Petit Prince, the Tao te Ching, Jonathan Livingstone Seagull, the Prophet, Siddhartha, Mirror of Simple Souls and In Love With Everything all have more characteristics I would expect of literature inspired by a benevolent deity, if such a thing existed. They are all lucid, consistent, complete, compassionate and concise. That's not to say nothing in the Bible meets these criteria. The sermon on the mount, for example, and the reflections on love in I Corinthians 13:4 are both very lucid. But the whole thing? No, too much pettiness, authoritarianism, brutality, bloodshed, violence and errors of fact. it's also too specific to one small minority of people, which causes it to miss the mark on identifying and reflecting on common features of human experience. It's a very, very "human" book on the whole.
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
no it doesn't

18 I pray that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in his holy people, 19 and his incomparably great power for us who believe.
And that biblical statement self-validates...how, again?
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
I don't believe it's divinely inspired because I've read it. Le Petit Prince, the Tao te Ching, Jonathan Livingstone Seagull, the Prophet, Siddhartha, Mirror of Simple Souls and In Love With Everything all have more characteristics I would expect of literature inspired by a benevolent deity, if such a thing existed. They are all lucid, consistent, complete, compassionate and concise. That's not to say nothing in the Bible meets these criteria. The sermon on the mount, for example, and the reflections on love in I Corinthians 13:4 are both very lucid. But the whole thing? No, too much pettiness, authoritarianism, brutality, bloodshed, violence and errors of fact. it's also too specific to one small minority of people, which causes it to miss the mark on identifying and reflecting on common features of human experience. It's a very, very "human" book on the whole.
God created us, therefore, we are divinely-inspired, yet we, too, are very, very human.
 

Alceste

Vagabond
God created us, therefore, we are divinely-inspired, yet we, too, are very, very human.

What I mean is, there is too much of the worst of human nature in the Bible and not enough of the best for the whole thing to strike me as a work of divine inspiration. In fact, the very basis for the story, that God chose one single tribe to be the stewards and authorities of his law, reflects the worst of human nature - arrogance, self-righteousness and xenophobia.
 

outhouse

Atheistically
What I mean is, there is too much of the worst of human nature in the Bible and not enough of the best for the whole thing to strike me as a work of divine inspiration. In fact, the very basis for the story, that God chose one single tribe to be the stewards and authorities of his law, reflects the worst of human nature - arrogance, self-righteousness and xenophobia.


and thats just for starters
 

outhouse

Atheistically
the bible carries historicity in places, but it also carries mythology and lots of it.

biblical history is not real history. Its a creation of such to match ever changing theology


example, historical jesus, is not biblical jesus.
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
What I mean is, there is too much of the worst of human nature in the Bible and not enough of the best for the whole thing to strike me as a work of divine inspiration. In fact, the very basis for the story, that God chose one single tribe to be the stewards and authorities of his law, reflects the worst of human nature - arrogance, self-righteousness and xenophobia.
But again, God created us with a range of ways of being. shouldn't the bible, written by us, reflect that range? what kind of relationship can be built if it's just about all the good stuff? We wouldn't be able to connect with it. Part of the reason for the bad stuff is to remind us that we are, in part, "bad." We're not perfect. But being in relationship with God isn't about being perfect. It's about being reconciled. Notice that God always uses low-down and broken people: Adam, Moses, Jacob, David, Rahab, etc. The "chosen" people are the underdogs, not the powerful and perfect ones.
 

waitasec

Veteran Member
That's not what your complaint was, though. You were complaining that SC's use of the bible somehow self-validated the bible.
by relying on blind faith...
read his post again...which was a response to this post
How do people not understand what a circular argument is? How can you not understand that this conversation is logically fallacious?

Person 1: “Does God exist?”
Person 2: “Yes!”
Person 1: “How do you know?”
Person 2: “The Bible says so!”
Person 1: “How do you know the Bible is true?”
Person 2: “Because it says it’s the word of God!”

This doesn’t answer any questions

I have never heard a theists use this construct. It's a red herring and condescending. Christianity is a revealed religion. God has revealed himself to us. Sometimes that revelation comes through the scriptures, sometimes through a sunset and often through a time of crisis. There are as many ways to have God revealed to you as there are theists in the world.

The evidence is spiritual: not physical. If you have limited your presence here on earth to only appreciating the physical, then you can't hope to see God. In fact it would take a miracle, and that's yet another way to have God revealed to you. :D

Ephesians 1:15 For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all God’s people, 16 I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers. 17 I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the Spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. 18 I pray that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in his holy people, 19 and his incomparably great power for us who believe. NIV
 
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