Believing for comfort

Orias said:

People do not believe for the sake of choice, they believe for the sake of existence.

The only reason its choice is because they'd rather not kill themselves.

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I personally find "As Iffing" to be a FAR better choice than 'believing'.

It's kind of like hope in action,
and doesn't end in disolusionment and breakdown
like belief does
when everything falls apart.

You always knew your "As If" was a stance.
Best to take the stance of a 'Warrior'!
Fight the good fight with all you've got,
as IF you have the win,
knowing at the same time
that really
your win
is (in) your stance-
more than the outcome.
(which you cannot know for sure, in advance)

The Doors of Perception said:

This ties in with my other thread on symbolism. I've been thinking more and more lately about what is wrong with believing for comfort. Does anyone really believe we can, or ever will, understand everything? I feel safe assuming most of us here are pretty caught up in religious ideas and arguments. What's the harm in believing in something you may even recognize as false if it helps you sleep? I never expected to be searching for answers for so long I don't want my life to be pondering useless questions. I plan on being a criminial psychologist, and I've gone far beyond what I need to know about religious psychology to do what I want in life.

Obviously some beliefs cause harm. It is comfortable to scapegoat and kill people in some cases, so apply some logical morality to the OP.

You can discuss, I may or may not reapond.

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I like poetry. I find comfort in it. I am aware of a world I don't understand and I don't know why I am here.
I don't believe in truth with a capital 'T'. I don't think meaning lies around waiting to be picked up. It is for me to create meaning in my own life. In this sense I see life as art. It is up to me to write my own poem. I am a member of a species that seems to like stories, I certainly find comfort in them. I see no shame in this.

When I say it's raining cats and dogs I don't expect to see fur plumetting earthwards if I look out the window. This is the level on which I 'believe'.

Drifting through space on a lonely rock I'd rather have a comforting work of fiction for company than a service manual for a tumble-drier. There's arguably more literal truth in the service manual but I extract infinitely more meaning from the story.

Orias said:

People do not believe for the sake of choice, they believe for the sake of existence.

The only reason its choice is because they'd rather not kill themselves.

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Here in this life you have 'choice'....yes we do.

But in that hour when the 'choice' that counts is made....
it doesn't belong to us.
It belongs to Them.

Thief said:

Here in this life you have 'choice'....yes we do..

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People didn't chose to exist, they didn't chose to have beliefs. These things developed after there development, which is almost a forced choice.

Orias said:

People didn't chose to exist, they didn't chose to have beliefs. These things developed after there development, which is almost a forced choice.

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So the spiritual life is forcing you to make choices?
Or were you referring to your next breakfast?

Orias said:

Both.

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Now we fall back to the worn discussion of freewill.

You don't have it?
The angels don't have it?
God doesn't have it?

I say I do. and I would say again as much for the God I believe in.

If you don't have freewill, perhaps your next life will be better.

Thief said:

Now we fall back to the worn discussion of freewill.

You don't have it?
The angels don't have it?
God doesn't have it?

I say I do. and I would say again as much for the God I believe in.

If you don't have freewill, perhaps your next life will be better.

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These beings, including you and I, possess the will of the true God.

You can call it free, or will or whatever you like for the matter, but you did not choose it, it was chose for you.

Orias said:

These beings, including you and I, possess the will of the true God.

You can call it free, or will or whatever you like for the matter, but you did not choose it, it was chose for you.

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So some angels live in heaven....some don't.
We humans will go to heaven in spirit...most won't.

The one's that don't...had no willful denial for which they were cast out?

And choice is an illusion?
So...who is forcing your next response?
Maybe I should have this discussion with Him?

The Doors of Perception said:

What's the harm in believing in something you may even recognize as false if it helps you sleep?

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From where I stand, there's nothing wrong with it.

Admittedly I used to pooh-pooh the idea of "turning to God", until I experienced it myself. My life hasn't been easy for the past 16+ years for reasons I need not go into, though suffice to say a lot of it is financial.

I started opening myself up to the realization that little good fortunes were coming my way, and obstacles being removed when they really shouldn't have been. Little bits of money unlooked-for and unexpected, came out of the blue; people (professionals and business owners) were doing things for me, when I was in a crisis, that they wouldn't do for others.

I attribute it to God(dess). Knowing that I have been protected in these times of need, I feel a lot better knowing They give to me and protect me. What I do as thanks, I won't say: Sri Krishna says that we are never entitled to claim the results of our deeds as our own, and everything we do for others should be in service to Him. That makes it all the better.

Thief said:

So some angels live in heaven....some don't.
We humans will go to heaven in spirit...most won't.

The one's that don't...had no willful denial for which they were cast out?

And choice is an illusion?
So...who is forcing your next response?
Maybe I should have this discussion with Him?

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But does it truly matter what you will, if the outcome you expect is opposite of that which you desire or willfully push forth?

The true children of God look past such trivial territories, Heaven and Hell, for that is not where they go when the cycle starts over.

Orias said:

But does it truly matter what you will, if the outcome you expect is opposite of that which you desire or willfully push forth?

The true children of God look past such trivial territories, Heaven and Hell, for that is not where they go when the cycle starts over.

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Something greater than heaven?...something less than hell?

Well, the topic leans to believing for the sake of comfort.

Your next post is likely to take the discussion to 'what' we believe rather than 'why'.

Life is pretty tough and full of suffering. Religion is a useful tool for getting through it, and possibly beyond it to a deeper understanding of the cannibal Life.

In response to the notion of cherry picking for comfort....
form another thread....I quote myself...

As I was reading the parables of the Carpenter, I realized what He was doing.
In the stories and incidents are the means and methods of the next life.

Some of those stories are difficult to feel good about.
Some have seriously dreadful endings.

Thief said:

Something greater than heaven?...something less than hell?

Well, the topic leans to believing for the sake of comfort.

Your next post is likely to take the discussion to 'what' we believe rather than 'why'.

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What we believe is a manifold of why.

Greater than Heaven and less than Hell, most certainly as they hardly signify an end of things. They are mere stockades, temporary holding grounds for a continually changing universe.

Why we believe things, it can easily be found in the truth of comfort. Even if you disagree, your truths are harsh to some.

Truth is often rash in the first place.