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How does an Atheist come to terms with predetermined events in life?
- Thread starter Gharib
- Start date
Gharib
I want Khilafah back
If you don't mind me asking, can you explain/elaborate a little more on what you are saying?
It was going well until you mentioned 'relativity', that's where you lost me unfortunately.
Gharib
I want Khilafah back
Sorry about that, I left a few posts unanswered as they require quite a bit more time for a proper response. This is all I have time for the moment, I will be back latter and I will answer the remainder of the unanswered posts in page 1.
apophenia
Well-Known Member
Are you serious ? He wrote a book and started a religion which reveres Jesus and you are telling me that "the most common and prevalent belief system during his era was polytheism and not monotheism" as if he had never heard of christianity ?
So mohammed was unaware of christianity ? You think Islam has no relationship to Abraham, Moses and Jesus ?
Get real, you're just saying foolish things.
Now I feel like an ***, but also flattered haha.
ImmortalFlame
Woke gremlin
No. Chance implies randomness. Most, if not all, things are the result of physical and biological laws acting upon each other and all events are in some way influenced by the laws of the Universe.
I have no idea to what you're referring.
Actually, I personally don't believe "free will" is a valid concept rather than a vague, ill-defined buzzphrase.
Again, I have no idea what you're talking about. What do you mean by "people have free will when it comes to God"? I can't quite decipher your point.
The decision to believe, lol. The almighty master of the universe has given us a test. "Based on no concrete evidence at all, guess which of the countless religions is true!! Your prize is a magical happy afterlife! But if you guess wrong you'll burn in hell forever!"
It can't be any more clear that such ideas are the twisted creations of man's imagination. Perhaps just once in your life, honestly think about it. Put aside your fear of God watching your every thought, and just analyze your beliefs in a critical and rational way. Put aside your fear of being rejected by your own community. You don't even have to tell them you don't believe anymore. Just keep it a secret. With a little luck, you'll claw your way out of these ancient religious beliefs.
Looncall
Well-Known Member
Actually, many natural phenomena involve some degree of uncertainty. The exact time at which a radioactive nucleus decays is unpredictable, for example. On various scales, the universe could have developed differently. If the sperm that led to your birth had been buffeted slightly differently by random Brownian motion, some other sperm might have fertilized your mother's egg, and you might have had different traits.
There is no fate; the future has not yet occurred.
The OP seems circular to me. Religion often produces wooly thinking.
apophenia
Well-Known Member
It is a virulent form of mental illness, not to be underestimated. Peer group pressure alone bends peoples' heads into seriously deformed shapes, but add to that years of self-conditioning and a psychotic fear of eternal punishment and ... the prognosis isn't good.
If eselam did claw his way out of medieval superstition, he would have no family or friends (at least for a while), and almost noone has the courage to face that. Once they have been indoctrinated, all of life seems to be at stake. That is why the scam continues. People like eselam know, at least unconsciously, that all the human contacts they have come to value and rely on will evaporate if they dare to question their brainwashing. It is not trivial to renounce one's peer group, and to pack-bonding primates like humans it seems equivalent to suicide. (In fact, given the fact of death for apostates in many muslim communities throughout history, it may literally be suicidal, so we can't expect genuine rationality. )
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cablescavenger
Well-Known Member
If you don't mind me asking, can you explain/elaborate a little more on what you are saying?
It was going well until you mentioned 'relativity', that's where you lost me unfortunately.
Time is not constant you can get ahead of it or fall behind it dependent on where you are in the universe, the gravity you are experienceing and the speed you are travelling.
The Hafele-Keating experiment will explain it better than I can.
FlyingTeaPot
Irrational Rationalist. Educated Fool.
I don't think we have free will.
Gharib
I want Khilafah back
Gharib
I want Khilafah back
Can you explain that?
If they knew how to? You aren't aware of what theist call revelation? How about you go through some of those.
I would believe you if you qualified and met the criteria. If, for one, you aren't a billionaire, then I don't believe you. If you were a billionaire, I'd just conclude that you are bored with having too much money and want to give some away. It may not necessarily be true and you could be lying, however, there is far more reasons to believe you than to not.
So, God has described himself and has told us what he is capable of and whether he can "afford" to give us paradise, it it sound thinking and reasoning to believe in his deal that to reject it, even though it may not be true as you probably already think.
Gharib
I want Khilafah back
I agree that it is not news, I'm not that smart to figure that stuff up on my own.
What I meant was that it's not pure randomness (chance) that things happen the way that they do. If things happened by chance then it would be total chaos, you know sometimes everything is going good for us, sometimes it is very bad.
It is an established fact that things turn out from bad to worse more times than they turn out better. A car which starts giving you engine problems isn't going to get better, it will only get worse, one problem will lead to another and before you know it the car is done for.
So all these high and low moments in life seem rather predetermined through which we are tried. They don't go too low and not for very long periods of time and they don't go too high for very long periods of time. It is balanced. You don't get that from chance and randomness.
Not a very effective point. You've never seen me be a Muslim nor pray the daily prayers, nor fast during Ramadan. How did you establish that I am real, and that I really am a Muslim/theist?
I don't see a problem in trying to understand the 'deeds' of God and through that understand that God exists.
Gjallarhorn
N'yog-Sothep
Nope. Free will is "the ability to do otherwise", which in this case neither of them have. You are talking of influence, not will.
Gharib
I want Khilafah back
Do you know what difference there is between influence and limited will?
Gjallarhorn
N'yog-Sothep
Influence implies you are restrained by circumstances, but can act freely in limited ways. The absence of free will is not "limited will". It is merely will.
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
I just take things as they come and navigate through issues by my own judgement. What dictates what I can and cannot do by limitations is based on cause and effect, and is taken in that regard.