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How Enlighten Was Buddha

CynthiaCypher

CynthiaCypher

Well-Known Member
When I read about Buddha I admit there is alot to admire. But I don't see how people can look up to him as some sort of supreme enlightened being.

He was a blatant misogynist in fact. I don't care were you come from...misogyny is not a sign of being enlightened. I understand how people look up to him, he said some very nice things but we also have to accept he also said some very not so nice things about women.

So why should people look to the Buddha for enlightenment when the Buddha is ignorant in regards to women?
 
Riverwolf

Riverwolf

Amateur Rambler / Proud Ergi
Premium Member
From what I understand, he was actually quite ahead of his time in terms of his view towards women. I've never been under the impression that he was misogynist.
 
CynthiaCypher

CynthiaCypher

Well-Known Member
Riverwolf said:
From what I understand, he was actually quite ahead of his time in terms of his view towards women. I've never been under the impression that he was misogynist.
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He abandoned his wife. He believed women were naturally ignorant, and could never attain Buddhahood without the help of men. He imposed harsh rules upon his women followers and he didn't want to admit women has followers in the first place.

He was pretty much a misogynist.
 
Riverwolf

Riverwolf

Amateur Rambler / Proud Ergi
Premium Member
CynthiaCypher said:
He abandoned his wife.
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And newborn son. Well, he wasn't enlightened at the time. ^_^

Besides, had he stayed, he would not have left and would have become a conquering King, much like Caesar would be later.

I think the world certainly didn't need a Caesar that early in history.

He believed women were naturally ignorant, and could never attain Buddhahood without the help of men. He imposed harsh rules upon his women followers and he didn't want to admit women has followers in the first place.

He was pretty much a misogynist.
Click to expand...
I've never heard any of that. Where'd you read it? (That's still miles ahead of his time.)
 
CynthiaCypher

CynthiaCypher

Well-Known Member
Riverwolf said:
And newborn son. Well, he wasn't enlightened at the time. ^_^

Besides, had he stayed, he would not have left and would have become a conquering King, much like Caesar would be later.

I think the world certainly didn't need a Caesar that early in history.

I've never heard any of that. Where'd you read it? (That's still miles ahead of his time.)
Click to expand...

No he wan't miles ahead. In the rest of the world there were already women philosophers and prophets during his time. He was a misogynist.
 
Riverwolf

Riverwolf

Amateur Rambler / Proud Ergi
Premium Member
CynthiaCypher said:
No he wan't miles ahead. In the rest of the world there were already women philosophers and prophets during his time. He was a misogynist.
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In India at the time, women weren't allowed to do much of anything. It was very much a man's world. The age of women Sages was pretty much gone at that point. Just look at how women are portrayed in the Itahasas. It's not very good.

You still haven't shown me where you read this, so I'm not inclined to believe your accusation.
 
CynthiaCypher

CynthiaCypher

Well-Known Member
Riverwolf said:
In India at the time, women weren't allowed to do much of anything. It was very much a man's world. The age of women Sages was pretty much gone at that point. Just look at how women are portrayed in the Itahasas. It's not very good.

You still haven't shown me where you read this, so I'm not inclined to believe your accusation.
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A Bhikkuni (nun) even if she was in the Order for 100 years must respect a Bhikkhu (monk) even of a day's standing.
A Bhikkuni must reside within 6 hours of traveling distance from the monastery where Bhikkhus reside for advice.
On Observance days a Bhikkhuni should consult the Bhikkhus.
A Bhikkhuni must spend rainy season retreats under the orders of both Bhikhus and Bhikkhunis.
A Bhikkhuni must live her life by both the orders.
A Bhikkhuni must on two years obtain the higher ordination (Upasampatha) by both Orders.
A Bhikkhuni cannot scold a Bhikkhu.
A Bhikkhuni cannot advise a Bhikkhu.
 
Riverwolf

Riverwolf

Amateur Rambler / Proud Ergi
Premium Member
CynthiaCypher said:
A Bhikkuni (nun) even if she was in the Order for 100 years must respect a Bhikkhu (monk) even of a day's standing.
A Bhikkuni must reside within 6 hours of traveling distance from the monastery where Bhikkhus reside for advice.
On Observance days a Bhikkhuni should consult the Bhikkhus.
A Bhikkhuni must spend rainy season retreats under the orders of both Bhikhus and Bhikkhunis.
A Bhikkhuni must live her life by both the orders.
A Bhikkhuni must on two years obtain the higher ordination (Upasampatha) by both Orders.
A Bhikkhuni cannot scold a Bhikkhu.
A Bhikkhuni cannot advise a Bhikkhu.
Click to expand...

Source please.

Also, keep in mind, the Buddha encouraged his followers to examine his teachings, and discard anything they found untrue.
 
CynthiaCypher

CynthiaCypher

Well-Known Member
Riverwolf said:
Source please.

Also, keep in mind, the Buddha encouraged his followers to examine his teachings, and discard anything they found untrue.
Click to expand...

And here you go:

Buddhist Studies: Buddhism & Women: Pajapati Gotami

It's a Buddhist website. I don't want to cite any anti-Buddhist sources regarding this. I am glad he did encouraged his followers to disregard anything they found untrue about women in his teachings, because he was wrong about women.
 
Riverwolf

Riverwolf

Amateur Rambler / Proud Ergi
Premium Member
CynthiaCypher said:
And here you go:

Buddhist Studies: Buddhism & Women: Pajapati Gotami

It's a Buddhist website. I don't want to cite any anti-Buddhist sources regarding this. I am glad he did encouraged his followers to disregard anything they found untrue about women in his teachings, because he was wrong about women.
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About anything in his teachings.

Also, though that's a Buddhist website, I wonder how prevalent this version of the story is, and where the author of the article got it. Let's not forget that the Buddha's teachings weren't written down until about a hundred years after he died, and different schools of Buddhism have different ideas about what happened. It's entirely possible that these restrictions were placed upon women after the Buddha's time (and entirely possible that he did say these things; until I have a source for this article, I can't say either way.)

For example, in some stories, his wife and son became among his first disciples. In others, he never saw his family again after becoming the Buddha, and in fact his hometown was destroyed in a raid.

Also, don't forget that, at this point in Indian history, women were basically regarded as naturally stupid and the property of men, completely incapable of any sort of spiritual understanding in ANY condition. The age when women could become Sages had past by this point.
 
Twilight Hue

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
CynthiaCypher said:
When I read about Buddha I admit there is alot to admire. But I don't see how people can look up to him as some sort of supreme enlightened being.

He was a blatant misogynist in fact. I don't care were you come from...misogyny is not a sign of being enlightened. I understand how people look up to him, he said some very nice things but we also have to accept he also said some very not so nice things about women.

So why should people look to the Buddha for enlightenment when the Buddha is ignorant in regards to women?
Click to expand...
It important to keep in mind the religion was instituted by disciples and monks following Buddhas teachings. The treatment of women was reflective of the culture at the time including monastic life iMO. The reference is a Theravada source BTW albiet a valid portrayal on how women lived within monasteries in that time period. Suffice to say women today are treated notably different than in the past where in a good number of schools you will find women serving as abbess in monastic settings.
 
Chisti

Chisti

Active Member
It is dishonest to say that the Buddha abandoned his wife and child. He abandoned a life of luxury, which included leaving friends, relatives etc. this is not the same as making a conscious decision to abandon one's wife and child.
 
Wannabe Yogi

Wannabe Yogi

Well-Known Member
Riverwolf said:
Also, don't forget that, at this point in Indian history, women were basically regarded as naturally stupid and the property of men, completely incapable of any sort of spiritual understanding in ANY condition. The age when women could become Sages had past by this point.
Click to expand...

Gross generalization don't you think.
 
Riverwolf

Riverwolf

Amateur Rambler / Proud Ergi
Premium Member
Wannabe Yogi said:
Gross generalization don't you think.
Click to expand...

Seems to be the case, however, though it is true that India at the time was many Kingdoms and not quite a unified country. Perhaps the region where the Buddha lived and taught would have been better.

When talking about the status of women in history, gross generalizations like this are often used by those of us who aren't historians; in this case, I'm reporting what I've heard on the matter, and would gladly like to hear of exceptions, or to see if I am outright wrong.
 
Wannabe Yogi

Wannabe Yogi

Well-Known Member
CynthiaCypher said:
He abandoned his wife.
Click to expand...

He abandoned his son also. Did he hate men.:facepalm:

CynthiaCypher said:
He believed women were naturally ignorant, and could never attain Buddhahood without the help of men. He imposed harsh rules upon his women followers and he didn't want to admit women has followers in the first place.

He was pretty much a misogynist.
Click to expand...

If you want to prove this you must find it in one of the early texts. Otherwise all kind of stuff was added. Do you also believe he was not born but came out of the hip of his mom.

I don't think you understand enough to come to any type of conclusion on this subject.
 
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