How did Satan get to the garden of Eden?

BobbyisStrange · May 17, 2012

Thief said:
Stories...as you pointed out....
need not be biblical to be spiritual.

I found it easy to link the fall of the angels to the deception in the garden.

Beautifully said.

sincerly · May 17, 2012

Originally Posted by sincerly

Jesus,in Luke10:17-18, attests to the fact that HE personally witnessed the casting out of Satan from heaven. "And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name. And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven." (It was Jesus who GOD gave the Revelation to for showing to John.)

BobbyisStrange said:
I find this no different than Exod 19:18
Mount Sinai was covered with smoke, because the Lord descended on it in fire.

The difference is in Who was Descending and Why.----and who was cast out and why.
The one being cast out was one who had been "opposing GOD" in heaven;and would be an adversary to mankind--on earth.

sincerly · May 17, 2012

BobbyisStrange said:
You didnt prove this usage at all, nor did you support it the claim what so ever. By showing me a verse that says thy shall be an adversary to my adversaries? That proves your point? No, i think it makes my case stronger, why? Because you completely got it wrong.

In Hebrew Exodus 23:22
ki im-sha·mo·a' tish·ma be·ko·lov, ve·'a·si·ta kol a·sher a·dab·ber; ve·'a·yav·ti et-o·ye·vei·cha, ve·tzar·ti et-tzo·re·rei·cha.
Which means
That if to listen you are listening in voice of him and you do all of which I am speaking and I enemy ones being enemies of you and I am foe ones being foe of you.
The word satan or adversary is not present; it was translated different to English.
Another thing, Adversary isnt a negative term. If we were to play a game of checkers, you would be my adversary, not my enemy.

Each can believe as it pleases them----or they can understand the messages and meaning which GOD intended. Still it is one's choice.[/quote]

Quite a arrogant claim, it just shows you are unable to be shown evidence, which is what i expected from a person who believes they know what God intended, my be/feel great to be infallible in scripture. The stance I hold is not new; Judaism has believed this very thing since their beginning.
[/quote]

That is because you left the "satan"( found 27 times in scriptures-i.e.-Num.22:22; 1Sam.29:4; Job 1:7; Zech.3:1-2) for the "tsarar" I presented to show a different word that, also, has the meaning of adversary. You chose to substitute "foe" which is acceptable, but still denotes an adversary.

As to "checkers", we could/would be "opponents"/"challangers" or any other synonym.

I ,also, know your usage of "arrogant"---so be happy, content, satisfied, etc.

Elipticalvoyage · May 17, 2012

Oh mate, the devil was cast out when he tried to overthrow god or did not bow to man. Adam and eve were the first. perhaps he had not the chance to turn bad until they came along. Perhaps the devils lack of respect for man was shown when he tempted them?

sincerly · May 19, 2012

Elipticalvoyage said:
Oh mate, the devil was cast out when he tried to overthrow god or did not bow to man. Adam and eve were the first. perhaps he had not the chance to turn bad until they came along. Perhaps the devils lack of respect for man was shown when he tempted them?

Hi EV, I don't see any evidence scripturally where "the devil" was ever told that he needed to bow to mankind. Yes, Adam and Eve were the First human Beings. However, the evidence is that there was rebellion in heaven before the "devil and his angels(fellowers who agreed to/in the "rebellion") were cast out of heaven.
The rebellion in heaven had nothing to do any tempting of the first human Beings---they were Created after the Rebellion was in progress.

outhouse · May 20, 2012

sincerly said:
Hi EV, I don't see any evidence scripturally where "the devil" was ever told that he needed to bow to mankind. Yes, Adam and Eve were the First human Beings. However, the evidence is that there was rebellion in heaven before the "devil and his angels(fellowers who agreed to/in the "rebellion") were cast out of heaven.
The rebellion in heaven had nothing to do any tempting of the first human Beings---they were Created after the Rebellion was in progress.

Wrong

and a outright fabrication

Human - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Humans (known taxonomically as Homo sapiens,[3][4] Latin for "wise man" or "knowing man")[5] are the only living species in the Homo genus. Anatomically modern humans originated in Africa about 200,000 years ago, reaching full behavioral modernity around 50,000 years ago.[6]

sincerly · May 20, 2012

outhouse said:
Wrong

and a outright fabrication

Human - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Humans (known taxonomically as Homo sapiens,[3][4] Latin for "wise man" or "knowing man")[5] are the only living species in the Homo genus. Anatomically modern humans originated in Africa about 200,000 years ago, reaching full behavioral modernity around 50,000 years ago.[6]

Hi Outhouse, Since Wikipedia is a compilation produced by the likes of you and me and the suppositions of their "theories", you want mind that I believe the thoughts and instructions given by a CREATOR GOD for the edification of mankind.?

"fabrication" is certainly a great word for the evolutionary ideas printed in that compilation.

sojourner · May 20, 2012

Do people not realize that Satan is not present in the garden??? Really?
surrously!?

Astounding!

Just...
Astounding.

waitasec · May 21, 2012

sincerly said:
Hi Outhouse, Since Wikipedia is a compilation produced by the likes of you and me and the suppositions of their "theories", you want mind that I believe the thoughts and instructions given by a CREATOR GOD for the edification of mankind.?

"fabrication" is certainly a great word for the evolutionary ideas printed in that compilation.

apparently you don't know where the reference section is...
psst, i'll give you a hint...it's at the bottom of the article
it's up to you to check those sources, but seeing as you are not in the habit of doing that, since the bible is the only source you use, you may not understand the importance of sources...
given the fact that there are 145 sources to check out....you may be feeling a little overwhelmed ...not to worry though, there are links to most of those sources so it shouldn't be so hard for you to check those that are pertinent to the topic, instead of spewing your regurgitated rhetoric.

outhouse · May 21, 2012

sincerly said:
Hi Outhouse, Since Wikipedia is a compilation produced by the likes of you and me and the suppositions of their "theories", you want mind that I believe the thoughts and instructions given by a CREATOR GOD for the edification of mankind.?

"fabrication" is certainly a great word for the evolutionary ideas printed in that compilation.

that is all nonsense.

you made a claim that is known to be false, you have ZERO evidence to back your claim outside of mythology.

adam and eve were never the first two people. it is a impossibility

sincerly · May 21, 2012

waitasec said:
apparently you don't know where the reference section is...
psst, i'll give you a hint...it's at the bottom of the article
it's up to you to check those sources, but seeing as you are not in the habit of doing that, since the bible is the only source you use, you may not understand the importance of sources...
given the fact that there are 145 sources to check out....you may be feeling a little overwhelmed ...not to worry though, there are links to most of those sources so it shouldn't be so hard for you to check those that are pertinent to the topic, instead of spewing your regurgitated rhetoric.

Waitasec, speaking of "spewing your regurgitated rhetoric", I acknowledge that I am last compared to what is seen in your posts.
As far as sources that an article/opinion is based upon, How would the opinion seen in the article be changed by reviewing the erroneous material in the 'Reference section' upon which the article was compiled???

Error plus false opinions is still not TRUE.

sincerly · May 21, 2012

outhouse said:
that is all nonsense.

What is nonsense is the theory of evolution.
No one has produced life form nothing.

outhouse said:
you made a claim that is known to be false, you have ZERO evidence to back your claim outside of mythology.

Outhouse, those "editors in Wikipedia" are still debating "mythology". However, there were eleven witness to some miraculous events(approx.2000 years ago) which I had rather believe thad some so-called- scholars whose opinions are based on theories--and not facts.

outhouse said:
adam and eve were never the first two people. it is a impossibility

And who(which of those "scholars") was there to make that valid observation?? All I see is "perhaps", "if", "by this account"(which was a supposed reality rather than actual), etc.

The "impossibility" is the theory of Evolution. The Creator GOD "spoke and it stood fast". All one sees was accomplished in six solar days.

outhouse · May 22, 2012

What is nonsense is the theory of evolution.
No one has produced life form nothing.

this is ignorance speaking

you must learn a term called abiogenesis if you want to keep from embarrassing yourself.

Outhouse, those "editors in Wikipedia" are still debating "mythology". However, there were eleven witness to some miraculous events(approx.2000 years ago) which I had rather believe thad some so-called- scholars whose opinions are based on theories--and not facts.

you make no sense at all.

stop refusing common knowledge over theology and mythology

they are not debating mythology, we know exactly what mythology is.

ypou made a claim and you cannot back it. man has existed, homo sapiens for about 200,000 years. There is no debate about this at all. only a few ignorant theist that refuse knowledge.

And who(which of those "scholars") was there to make that valid observation??

stop refusing common knowledge

reality dictates that a two people created in mythology, cannot sustain a breeding population.

The "impossibility" is the theory of Evolution

stop refusing common knowledge due to induced ignorance.

evolution is a fact that has been observed and there is no debate about it.

The Creator GOD "spoke and it stood fast". All one sees was accomplished in six solar days.

we know this is mythology.

you are embarrassing humanity at this point.

waitasec · May 22, 2012

sincerly said:
Waitasec, speaking of "spewing your regurgitated rhetoric", I acknowledge that I am last compared to what is seen in your posts.
As far as sources that an article/opinion is based upon, How would the opinion seen in the article be changed by reviewing the erroneous material in the 'Reference section' upon which the article was compiled???

Error plus false opinions is still not TRUE.

support your baseless claim that these are erroneous references
:foot:

oh that's right gawd is on your side, you don't need to
:biglaugh:

sincerly · May 22, 2012

sincerly said:
What is nonsense is the theory of evolution.
No one has produced life form nothing.

outhouse said:
this is ignorance speaking

you must learn a term called abiogenesis if you want to keep from embarrassing yourself.

You can label yourself ignorant all you want, but I do understand the term "abiogenesis" and like "Evolution" there are a lot of theories of how elements combined to form the essential systems for the beginning of life. However, all is just talk and no produced products of conception----Life has not been forth coming from any of the theories.
So why are you allowing yourself to believe such nonsense??

outhouse said:
you make no sense at all.
stop refusing common knowledge over theology and mythology
they are not debating mythology, we know exactly what mythology is.

Unfortunately, you need to check out that [talk] button on a controversial subject.

outhouse said:
you made a claim and you cannot back it. man has existed, homo sapiens for about 200,000 years. There is no debate about this at all. only a few ignorant theist that refuse knowledge.

I am well aware of the increase in knowledge in the last 75 of my 83 years here on earth. However, even with the 1,000,000 BC years for the earth being attributed for the evolving of all things to that being increased to many billions of years today, one is no closer to producing LIFE from NOTHING.

Those "elements" above had to have an "origin" as would the "Big bang"---etc.

outhouse said:
stop refusing common knowledge

It is "common knowledge" that there is a Creator GOD.

outhouse said:
reality dictates that a two people created in mythology, cannot sustain a breeding population.

However, The world I see about me is real; It was produced by a real Creator GOD and the human pair HE Formed did "sustain a breeding population".

outhouse said:
stop refusing common knowledge due to induced ignorance.
evolution is a fact that has been observed and there is no debate about it.

Outhouse, I don't find any authoritative answers in what you have said nor in the sources which you have quoted. I have seen only erroneous material.

outhouse said:
we know this is mythology.
you are embarrassing humanity at this point.

That old serpent is still deceiving mankind and all who succumb to his lies will be the ones "embarrassed".

sincerly · May 22, 2012

waitasec said:
support your baseless claim that these are erroneous references
:foot:

oh that's right gawd is on your side, you don't need to
:biglaugh:

Theories continue to be just theories----not facts, nor truth. Suppositions/I think do not a fact make.

BobbyisStrange · May 22, 2012

sincerly said:
Theories continue to be just theories----not facts, nor truth. Suppositions/I think do not a fact make.

Ok this right here shows me that you have absolutely no understanding of the word theory. Theory is not just a guess or an idea. It is the closest thing to fact that exists. It means it has been put through rigorous testing and it has stood the test of time, it is falsifiable and makes TESTABLE predictions.
“A would-be theory that makes no observable predictions is not a useful theory. Predictions not sufficiently specific to be tested are similarly not useful. In both cases, the term "theory" is hardly applicable.
A REAL scientific theory can only be called a theory once it has a minimum empirical basis, according to certain criteria:
It is consistent with pre-existing theory, to the extent the pre-existing theory was experimentally verified, though it will often show pre-existing theory to be wrong in an exact sense.
It is supported by many strands of evidence, rather than a single foundation, ensuring it is probably a good approximation, if not totally correct.”
God, doesn’t fall into this criteria…Evolution does. And as far as something cant come from nothing claim…Read Lawrence Krauss new book “A Universe From Nothing”

I love when theists try to use “well it is only a theory” as some sort of “Gotcha” to science. In reality it just shows how ignorant a person is on the subject. People don’t use this excuse for things like the theory of gravity, but when it conflicts with personal superstitions aka God, we get to watch theists move the goal posts.

outhouse · May 22, 2012

So why are you allowing yourself to believe such nonsense??

You are giving all theist a bad name using theology as history and science due to a literal reading of something you have no idea or understanding about.

Stop embarrassing yourself, and stop refusing common knowledge.

one is no closer to producing LIFE from NOTHING

it is actually nothing more then chemistry, and not really a complete mystery at all.

we have life appearing down to a 400,000 year window, if you dont understand how long that is and how much can happen in chemistry, thats not my fault.

It is "common knowledge" that there is a Creator GOD.

FALSE, so far all it is at this point is "ancient mythology" and wishfull thinking based soley on the place you were born. [facepalm]

However, The world I see about me is real; It was produced by a real Creator GOD and the human pair HE Formed did "sustain a breeding population".

im sorry but you follow faith, not evidence. we know when the adam and eve mythology was created, by who, and where the Israelites recieved the legends and mythology from.

faith does not trump geology, biology, anthropology, scholarships, and science in general.

I have seen only erroneous material.

Thats your problem, and it is a problem when you try and pass on misinformation due to lack of education.

when were you last in school and actually studied something with credibility and taught by modern teachers with modern knowledge ??

You do know creation was outlawed from poisoning our childrens minds in public schools dont you???

YOU do know evolution and biology are taught in EVERY major university around the world as higher education! ???

You know you owe your current life to science as without it you would not exist today, most of us would be dead without our knowledge in evolution and biochemistry and the CDC staying ahead of pandemics.

That old serpent is still deceiving mankind and all who succumb to his lies will be the ones "embarrassed".

lack of scientific knowledge due to refusal to want to learn is one thing, but when you add that lack of knowledge with a little knowledge in theology, you are embarrassing yourself bud.

the serpent in the garden was never the devil or satan

sincerly · May 22, 2012

My answers in blue!

outhouse said:
(1)You are giving all theist a bad name using theology as history and science due to a literal reading of something you have no idea or understanding about.
Stop embarrassing yourself, and stop refusing common knowledge.

The creator GOD was first given a bad name by that serpent's lies in the Garden. You are only continuing with trying to do the same.
Your denial of the Truth doesn't make it so. Nor am I embarassed by the "common knowledge" of the Bible scriptures.

(2)it is actually nothing more then chemistry, and not really a complete mystery at all.

Chemistry still can NOT/HAS NOT produced Life.

(3)we have life appearing down to a 400,000 year window, if you dont understand how long that is and how much can happen in chemistry, thats not my fault.

All of which is speculative theory---NOT FACT.
Chemistry has had Billions of years---as you believe, yet theory is the best you have to show.

(4)FALSE, so far all it is at this point is "ancient mythology" and wishfull thinking based soley on the place you were born. [facepalm]

Which translates----where you were born determines your atheistic and mythologic views.

(5)im sorry but you follow faith, not evidence. we know when the adam and eve mythology was created, by who, and where the Israelites recieved the legends and mythology from.

It takes more faith to believe that Nothing produced elements which theoretically chanced to combine--to produce a very complex living organism--THAN to believe that THE CREATOR GOD spoke and all that one sees stood fast.
There is no "evidence" in theory. What IS SEEN was present prior to the theory of why it is here.

(6)faith does not trump geology, biology, anthropology, scholarships, and science in general.

Correctly understood. Those disciplines confirm the Biblical narrative rather than repute/deny it.

(7)Thats your problem, and it is a problem when you try and pass on misinformation due to lack of education.
when were you last in school and actually studied something with credibility and taught by modern teachers with modern knowledge ??
You do know creation was outlawed from poisoning our childrens minds in public schools dont you???
YOU do know evolution and biology are taught in EVERY major university around the world as higher education! ???

Puny man's knowledge is guesswork when it comes to much of why things function as they do.
I have answered your ""you do knows" previously.

(8)You know you owe your current life to science as without it you would not exist today, most of us would be dead without our knowledge in evolution and biochemistry and the CDC staying ahead of pandemics.

My current life is sustained by the Creator GOD who Made mankind.

(9)lack of scientific knowledge due to refusal to want to learn is one thing, but when you add that lack of knowledge with a little knowledge in theology, you are embarrassing yourself bud.

Again, I'm not embarassed by my knowledge and association with the Living Creator GOD and all that was made by HIM.
It appears, since you mention that 'condition" so frequently, that you may be embarrassed by evolution and atheism

(10)the serpent in the garden was never the devil or satan

That's your belief/denial, but not as other scriptures testify.....

outhouse · May 22, 2012

Puny man's knowledge

is why your still alive today.

How did Satan get to the garden of Eden?

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