• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Angels

Marble

Rolling Marble
Can angels (other than Lucifer) fall from heaven?
Many angels fell from God's grace when they became selfish and wanted to rule by themselves in the Lower Heaven (the visible material Cosmos) without revealing the Upper Heaven to People, the dwelling place of the Highest God who was their Father.
How many haevens are there?
 

SimonMagus7

New Member
hi Marble, good question. i believe there are 2 Heavens. There is this heaven, the visible one, a realm of darkness mixed with light. In this heaven the gods rule as they wish.

Then there is an upper heaven of boundless light and goodness, where there is no darkness. In this heaven the Highest Power and the pure angels dwell, and anyone may enter this heaven if they so wish to give adoration.
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
Try reasoning, instead of contradiction.

Death is the end of life, not the beginning, by definition.

Still not see your contradiction?

Life after death, seems to me, a real possibility.
This life is only the beginning...eternity awaits.
 

A Troubled Man

Active Member
Life after death, seems to me, a real possibility.

So, contradictions of biology, physics, logic and a host of other terrestrial events and concepts seems a real possibility?

This life is only the beginning...eternity awaits.

Faith based wishful thinking. I'm sure that's what you'd really, really, really like to believe.
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
So, contradictions of biology, physics, logic and a host of other terrestrial events and concepts seems a real possibility?

Faith based wishful thinking. I'm sure that's what you'd really, really, really like to believe.

So all of this biology, physics, logic, and a host of other things....
is all for nothing.... as Man is a creature soon to be dust?

Not a chance of spiritual life?.... even with 6billion+ copies all bent to living as long as they can...and most of them looking forward to to doing so...
when they surrender their last breaths.
 

A Troubled Man

Active Member
So all of this biology, physics, logic, and a host of other things....
is all for nothing....

I don't see how you could possibly arrive at such a conclusion? How can it all be for nothing when there are so many obvious examples of how biology, physics, logic and a host of other things has enriched our lives?

Why is it all for nothing? From where do you get that notion?

Not a chance of spiritual life?

"Spiritual life" has never been shown to exist.
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
I don't see how you could possibly arrive at such a conclusion? (use entire quote please) How can it all be for nothing when there are so many obvious examples of how biology, physics, logic and a host of other things has enriched our lives?

Why is it all for nothing? From where do you get that notion?

You brought it up and I was retorting your position.

"Spiritual life" has never been shown to exist.

Such is faith and faithful reasoning.
So you can't seem to follow?.....not surprising, given your perspective.

If the understanding seems elusive....shift the way you look at things.
 

A Troubled Man

Active Member
Such is faith and faithful reasoning.

Faith and faithful reasoning cause one to believe their entire lives are all for nothing unless your dead?

Doesn't sound positive.

So you can't seem to follow?.....not surprising, given your perspective.

I haven't learned how to speak gibberish.

If the understanding seems elusive....shift the way you look at things.

Would you like a potato?
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
Faith and faithful reasoning cause one to believe their entire lives are all for nothing unless your dead?

Doesn't sound positive.



I haven't learned how to speak gibberish.



Would you like a potato?

Your above post is gibberish.
Step up to the discussion...not down.
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
Do angels communicate with human?
Do they intervene with human affairs?

Hard to say it as 'proof'...
but a car accident that would have killed me....didn't.

For cause of a 'feeling'....I locked my door, looked for the seat belt.
In that day the plastic housing had not been invented.
I looked over the seat, and the belt was on the floor behind me.

I turned my back to the passenger door....and began sliding forward and down.
The driver wanted to know if I felt alright.

I said....'just drive the car'...

When it was over (I'm skipping to the afterthought)
Had I not done as I did, I might have been thrown out of the vehicle.
Had I not slid forward, almost off of the bench, my face would have gone through the windshield.

60 to 0...is bad. And in those days, cars did little to save the passenger.

Some would say this proves nothing. I might be saved by my own intuition.
But 'feelings' like that are not the norm.

Kinda like a shout....'get down!....without the sounded words.
It persisted long enough...and before hand....I had to act.

Angels at my ear?....I think so.
 

A Troubled Man

Active Member
Hard to say it as 'proof'...
but a car accident that would have killed me....didn't.

Angels at my ear?....I think so.

Often, when we hear ridiculous and selfish stories like that from folks who believe they are special, we need to remind ourselves of those who actually did die in car accidents and the grief stricken families left to mourn their losses, but much worse, must endure the patronizing selfishness of those who believe they're special.
 

Road Warrior

Seeking the middle path..
Do angels communicate with human?
Do they intervene with human affairs?

I don't believe so, but I can't discount things like Thief's "feeling" in certain situation since I've had them too. This doesn't necessarily mean God or angels are intervening since it could just as easily be my God-given brain, specifically the right hemisphere, is the source of the "feeling".

IMHO, there is a great force, an entity behind all of existence, but I also believe that angels and demons are simply throwbacks to the idea of Zeus and several semi-gods. Yes, there are a few instances in the Bible where a man, presumed to be an angel, gave warning or information, but all of them were in physical form and none demonstrated having wings or magical powers. Just information. That's if the story can be taken literally. IMO, there is only the oneness of "God", not subdivisions, except here in the natural Universe.
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
Often, when we hear ridiculous and selfish stories like that from folks who believe they are special, we need to remind ourselves of those who actually did die in car accidents and the grief stricken families left to mourn their losses, but much worse, must endure the patronizing selfishness of those who believe they're special.

Look who's being selfish!

Apparently you're not up for such possibility....and therefore can't understand.
Then for lack of understanding go on the offensive.

Too bad for you.
But that doesn't mean I don't like you.

Special?...no....
Different?...no doubt about it.
Got things to do, and need to breath to get them done?...oh yeah.
Had my life spared so I can get on with it?...here I am.

You must be different too....here you are!
 
Last edited:

A Troubled Man

Active Member
Look who's being selfish!

Apparently you're not up for such possibility....and therefore can't understand.
Then for lack of understanding go on the offensive.

LOL! It's funny when the religious use the excuse others don't understand as an argument.
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
LOL! It's funny when the religious use the excuse others don't understand as an argument.

It's even better when the people who think they understand,
make assumptions of their opposition.

Rogue theologian.
I have no religion...no dogma.
 

A Troubled Man

Active Member
It's even better when the people who think they understand,
make assumptions of their opposition.

Like your story above, I am reminded of the middle-aged obese woman who was pulled from the wreckage of a disaster some days after it occurred who after being rescued raised her arms upwards exclaiming, "Jesus saved me!" all the while standing amongst the hundreds of dead around her, many of them Christians.

She believed she was special, too.

Rogue theologian.
I have no religion...no dogma.

You might wish to consult a dictionary to understand those definitions.
 
Top