Are you proud to have The Bible as your holy book?

EnochSDP · May 8, 2012

Levite said:
I guess this is just one of those times that our theologies are too different. Jews just don't believe that what we understand as holy spirit works that way; or that God works that way.

What is the purpose of God if He isnt speaking with you and through you and guiding you?

Skwim · May 8, 2012

EnochSDP said:
Wow it takes much study and knowledge to write 1 book.much more than buying a lawnmower.Then you have over 60 books all in different generations with 40 authors.If it is so easy to write and the knowledge is so bland.Why do not you write something more signifiant and important.You cant and no one can.
That comment is something to make you sound smart but it flat out dumb comment.

My post was in response to the title question: " Are you proud to have The Bible as your holy book?
So why would having something one selected make one proud? Are you proud of what you choose to eat? Proud of the kind of music you like? Or proud of having a nice day to mow the lawn? The whole notion seems quite silly.

EnochSDP · May 8, 2012

Skwim said:
My post was in response to the title question: " Are you proud to have The Bible as your holy book?
So why would having something one selected make one proud? Are you proud of what you choose to eat? Proud of the kind of music you like? Or proud of having a nice day to mow the lawn? The whole notion seems quite silly.

I understand you point.I feel more priviliged than proud.More Honored than self pride.You are right!

Levite · May 9, 2012

EnochSDP said:
What is the purpose of God if He isnt speaking with you and through you and guiding you?

God is His own purpose. He may or may not speak with us, but he created us with both free will and intelligence. He does not interfere with us, and gives us both time and space to do our own learning, make our own mistakes, and acquire our own wisdom.

Nakosis · May 9, 2012

Levite said:
God is His own purpose. He may or may not speak with us, but he created us with both free will and intelligence. He does not interfere with us, and gives us both time and space to do our own learning, make our own mistakes, and acquire our own wisdom.

Yes, but "God" seems to help if asked?

Is this something you might see as true or do you see God as completely hands off, leaving man individually to his own devices?

A Troubled Man · May 9, 2012

Levite said:
God is His own purpose. He may or may not speak with us, but he created us with both free will and intelligence. He does not interfere with us, and gives us both time and space to do our own learning, make our own mistakes, and acquire our own wisdom.

It is interesting when people speak for their gods when their gods can't speak for themselves.

Levite · May 9, 2012

Nakosis said:
Yes, but "God" seems to help if asked?

Is this something you might see as true or do you see God as completely hands off, leaving man individually to his own devices?

That's a more complex question than it might seem. The truth is that while we believe that God always listens to what we have to say, we are unsure whether He always acts on what He hears. There may be many reasons why He does not, or why, if He answers our prayers, sometimes the answer may be "No." We have produced many opinions about why this might be the case, although no universal agreement about them.

I personally think that God often refuses to act because continued interference with the way the universe functions degrades its value; and to preserve human free will; and to give us the opportunity to develop wisdom, and to care for one another.

But I do think that sometimes, if it is feasible, God will act. And at all times, I believe He does listen to us, and does offer us sympathy, empathy, and compassion.

A Troubled Man said:
It is interesting when people speak for their gods when their gods can't speak for themselves.

It is interesting when people make empty snide remarks when they have nothing of value to say.

CarlinKnew · May 9, 2012

sojourner said:
"Most" is, at best, an exaggeration. "Most" of the content isn't "petty."

Funny how you haven't disputed that until now. In fact you practically agreed.

"Petty" is a pretty subjective description, and depends upon how the texts are understood. Even so, once again, since the book is mostly about human beings, and human beings are a petty lot, it only stands to reason that there would be some pettiness in the book. And to call that shot only means that you're passing judgment upon humanity -- not God.

This thread is clearly about the book itself. I think you've already raised your other points and I've responded, so I'll leave it at that.

EnochSDP · May 9, 2012

Levite said:
God is His own purpose. He may or may not speak with us, but he created us with both free will and intelligence. He does not interfere with us, and gives us both time and space to do our own learning, make our own mistakes, and acquire our own wisdom.

i agree with that.

InChrist · May 9, 2012

Not proud, but very thankful to have God's revealed Word in the scriptures.

Nakosis · May 9, 2012

Levite said:
That's a more complex question than it might seem. The truth is that while we believe that God always listens to what we have to say, we are unsure whether He always acts on what He hears. There may be many reasons why He does not, or why, if He answers our prayers, sometimes the answer may be "No." We have produced many opinions about why this might be the case, although no universal agreement about them.

I personally think that God often refuses to act because continued interference with the way the universe functions degrades its value; and to preserve human free will; and to give us the opportunity to develop wisdom, and to care for one another.

But I do think that sometimes, if it is feasible, God will act. And at all times, I believe He does listen to us, and does offer us sympathy, empathy, and compassion.

This aligns with my experiences. I have to rely on my experiences in understanding differing religious views. I think it is good to find common ground through common experiences.

Thanks for your response.

EnochSDP · May 9, 2012

CarlinKnew said:
For sure, I can understand that.

I love the Bible it has made me the person I am.
I respect it.
I try to honor it.Im failable.
I believe it.
If that makes me proud of it I am.
I didnt write it so I am not proud.I stand at no above place to look and be proud at all.So no I say I am not proud.

Me Myself · May 9, 2012

EnochSDP said:
1.In Isa 44:28-45:1 about 725 BC, It names Cyrus the Great,It says he will allow Jersualem to build thier temple and foundations will be laid.He will subdue nations.He will rise to power by the Lords will for his purpose.This was foretold two hundred years before Cyrus was born.Cyrus became to rule Persia in 559 BC.

Ichadon - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Read the miracle part.

EnochSDP said:
2. Isa chapter 12-13 predicts the destrcution of Babylon 150 years before it was destroyed.

False. It says Babylon will never bee inhabited, and that is naturally false. People still go to there as a turist atraction, and trust me there are people who "inhabit it".

So this is either a false prophecy or one that has not yet been fulfilled.

EnochSDP said:
4.In 1 Kings 13:2 it mentions king Josiah by name and tells about the actions on his life three hundred years before the King was born.

A Brahmin tell s Kansa, the tyranic king of Madhuri, that he is gpoing to be killed by a son of HIs friend Vasudev. Eventually, the 8th son of vasudev is born and it is Krishna, who kills him when he is around 12 years old.

EnochSDP said:
5.in Daniel 9:23-26 Daniel describes The ministry of Jesus, the destrcution of Jersualem and the rebuilding of it in latter times.That a decree would be given to allow the Jews to rebuild thier city and temple.And that the Messiah would be cut off and the temple destroyed again.

70 weeks and then ETERNAL JUSTICE? END OF SINS? Dude, if this will EVER be fulfillef, it is going to be waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay late on it´s call :areyoucra

I also wonder if it is cronologically correcdt that around 70 weeks (less than 2 years) after Gabriel said this to Daniel Jesus was even born (not to say ointed in the way it says he must be for the end of that time)

EnochSDP said:
6.In 5BC a prophet named Zechariah declared the Messiah would betryed for the price of a slave and historians record Jesus was sold for thirty pieces of silver which was the rate for a slave then.32 years before Christ would be betrayed.

In the Mahabharat, The wife of Dritirashtra cursed Krishna into not having descendants. Some time later, Krishna died without children.

EnochSDP said:
7.Some 400 years before crucifixion was invented King David and Zechariah describe the Messiah being crucified.In Psalm 22 and 34:20, Zech 12:10.

You are confused. If you read the text, you´ll see it is not a prophecy at all.

It was not meant to be a prophecy when written. It is a salm.

so this was not even INTENDED as a prophecy. I mean, this is low by the already low standards than those of most of these alleged "prophecies" you show me.

EnochSDP said:
This is just a few.defute them!and post any that are as signifiant.

Well, you actually had like 3 that survived the most superficial of researches. Of... 17 alleged prophecies... not a very good rate... at all.

Most of what you presented is obviously false, and yet you base your most important beliefs in those. You need some serious research for your coal beliefs man.

CarlinKnew · May 10, 2012

Hawkeye112200 said:
It is also assumed at least for Christians, that the meaning and purpose of God's books are foolishness to the "wise" of the world, and is only revealed to those who are truly broken.

Hm what do you mean by broken? Do I need to be depressed for the Bible to mean something to me?

From a secular, purely literary point of view, this would be the case in most instances.
Concerning divine intervention however, this is not the case. If God wants a person's understanding to be enlightened, no scholar will be needed. I suspect this is more what you are thinking about when you discuss this.

My recommendation to you is this. Now that you have read the bible cover to cover. Get on your knees, talk to God, and say this, " God if you are real, show me." "If, you can only be found and understood by the words in this book, show me."

Tell God you want to understand the mysteries locked in the bible, tell him you have ZERO faith, but for some reason are compelled to understand why others do.

Then, get off you knees and open your bible. Start with Ephesians 1, and then go to Gospel of John Ch 1.

Do me one favor though, try very hard, at least humor me, when you do this reading of Ephesians, just try and assume that this Paul REALLY does know something from God, that he divinely has understanding and blessings from God, to teach us the mind of God.
Read each word slowly and with the expressed intent of hearing from God.

That's all the tricks I got for you. If that doesn't do anything for you, nothing will. Report what happened and how you felt, feel, etc...

If all else fails, you stay the same, or can investigate some other religions.

Great thready BTW!

Well, that's an interesting idea and I might try it sometime.

CarlinKnew · May 10, 2012

Skwim said:
My post was in response to the title question: " Are you proud to have The Bible as your holy book?
So why would having something one selected make one proud? Are you proud of what you choose to eat? Proud of the kind of music you like? Or proud of having a nice day to mow the lawn? The whole notion seems quite silly.

Don't you take pleasure and satisfaction in some of your decisions, especially the important ones? The question has a purpose: I didn't want to ask if people were proud to be Jews or Christians; I'm interested in their opinion of the Bible and if they think that it's a good book, if they're proud to have it as a representation of their faith. I'm sure there are some Christians who don't think the Bible is very good but stay with their faith for other reasons.

Skwim · May 10, 2012

CarlinKnew said:
Don't you take pleasure and satisfaction in some of your decisions, especially the important ones?

When they turn out right, yes I do take pleasure and satisfaction; however, I don't take any pride in having made those decisions. Exactly what should I be proud of, that I didn't make a wrong decision? I suppose if I was in the habit of making wrong decisions left and right I might be proud that I finally got one right. But, I don't see most Christians as people who make bad decisions left and right, so I fail to see where any pride would enter into the ownership of a book that comes with having selected a particular religion.

The question has a purpose: I didn't want to ask if people were proud to be Jews or Christians; I'm interested in their opinion of the Bible and if they think that it's a good book, if they're proud to have it as a representation of their faith. I'm sure there are some Christians who don't think the Bible is very good but stay with their faith for other reasons.

There are probably exceptions to just about every rule and common practice, so I don't see the question as very enlightening, particularly when it's couched in terms of pride.To me, taking pride in a book that comes with a religion, is like taking pride in the mashed potatoes that come with one's steak dinner. It's a bit silly.

CarlinKnew · May 11, 2012

Skwim said:
When they turn out right, yes I do take pleasure and satisfaction; however, I don't take any pride in having made those decisions. Exactly what should I be proud of, that I didn't make a wrong decision? I suppose if I was in the habit of making wrong decisions left and right I might be proud that I finally got one right. But, I don't see most Christians as people who make bad decisions left and right, so I fail to see where any pride would enter into the ownership of a book that comes with having selected a particular religion.

There are probably exceptions to just about every rule and common practice, so I don't see the question as very enlightening, particularly when it's couched in terms of pride.To me, taking pride in a book that comes with a religion, is like taking pride in the mashed potatoes that come with one's steak dinner. It's a bit silly.

Think you're getting hung up over one word. I'm simply asking if they think the book is good, if it represents their faith accurately.

Skwim · May 11, 2012

CarlinKnew said:
Think you're getting hung up over one word. I'm simply asking if they think the book is good, if it represents their faith accurately.

A word much different than what you're now saying, but whatever. :shrug:

CarlinKnew · May 11, 2012

Skwim said:
A word much different than what you're now saying, but whatever.

Thought I explained the title in the original post. In any case I think the word fits just fine by its ordinary usage:

dictionary.com said:
proud [ proud ]

adjective 1. feeling pleasure or satisfaction over something regarded as highly honorable or creditable to oneself (often followed by of, an infinitive, or a clause).

Just like saying, "I'm proud of my country," or, "I'm proud of you."

Skwim · May 11, 2012

CarlinKnew said:
Thought I explained the title in the original post.

You mean your two follow up questions?

Do you think it's a good book? Does it represent your faith accurately?

I don't regard further questions as being explanatory.

In any case I think the word fits just fine by its ordinary usage:
feeling pleasure or satisfaction over something regarded as highly honorable or creditable to oneself

And this is what I was talking about. Do you really feel highly honored that you credit yourself with selecting the Bible?

Are you proud to have The Bible as your holy book?

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