How did you arrive at your beliefs?

Growing up, I was taught how to think, not what to think.
I was encouraged to think freely and rationally for myself, without fear or giult.
I think that was the biggest influence on how I arrived at my (non) belief.

sonofskeptish said:

Growing up, I was taught how to think, not what to think.
I was encouraged to think freely and rationally for myself, without fear or giult.
I think that was the biggest influence on how I arrived at my (non) belief.

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You were very fortunate to grow up in that type of environment.

Gomeza said:

Most people born into the human race are indoctrinated from an early age into the religion of their parents.

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An interesting snippet on indoctrination from Wikipedia:Your use of the term, i.e., your apparent claim that most people are inculcated with religious doctrine which they are expected not to question or critically examine, could suggest that you are no less biased and agenda driven than those you presume to stigmatize. I, for one, was never expected not to question, and I sincerely doubt that I am overly unique in that regard.

>How did you arrive at your beliefs?

Through a process of reading, questioning, prayer, investigation, observation, and evaluation over an extended period.

And I since have over 40 1/2 years as a Baha'i, during which I have NOT ONCE found any reason to regret this decision!

Best!

Bruce

Just out of curiosity, I know that some cultures employ ostentatious display for a number of reasons. Does your belief system include printing everything you say in larger, bolder type as if for show?

Jayhawker Soule said:

An interesting snippet on indoctrination from Wikipedia:Your use of the term, i.e., your apparent claim that most people are inculcated with religious doctrine which they are expected not to question or critically examine, could suggest that you are no less biased and agenda driven than those you presume to stigmatize. I, for one, was never expected not to question, and I sincerely doubt that I am overly unique in that regard.

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It always amazes me how someone can read an innocuous statement and somehow find a way to take offense from it. I will concede the difficulty of using an appropriate all encompassing term when making this type of generalization but there was no negative connotation stated nor implied in my opening sentence. You seem to be the only one who read it and have taken this perspective from it.

Gomeza said:

It always amazes me how someone can read an innocuous statement and somehow find a way to take offense from it.

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Since I am not at all offended I can only take your comment to represent something of a confession. It's not necessary, but I do hope you feel better for it.

Gomeza said:

It always amazes me how someone can read an innocuous statement and somehow find a way to take offense from it. I will concede the difficulty of using an appropriate all encompassing term when making this type of generalization but there was no negative connotation stated nor implied in my opening sentence. You seem to be the only one who read it and have taken this perspective from it.

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Actually, I took it similarly -- and it was the use of that word that caused me to be pass up responding the first time. To me, it suggested a negative slant on your part.

Jayhawker Soule said:

Since I am not at all offended I can only take your comment to represent something of a confession. It's not necessary, but I do hope you feel better for it.

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That comment is even more incredible than your first. Is it your intention to be petty and childish over an objection to a difficult choice of wording, or are you just appearing that way?

I was raised in a spiritually apathetic environment, and grew up very confused. I'm just trying to do what feels natural now and learning by reading and practicing.

Gomeza said:

That comment is even more incredible than your first. Is it your intention to be petty and childish over an objection to a difficult choice of wording, or are you just appearing that way?

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It looks like he's just examining you. I see some truth in there even though it is a little annoying.

4consideration said:

Actually, I took it similarly -- and it was the use of that word that caused me to be pass up responding the first time. To me, it suggested a negative slant on your part.

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All I can say is can you think of a better term to describe how children have been traditionally introduced to their parent's religion around the world?

When is the last time you heard a parent say: "Welome home, honey. How did indoctrination go in your algebra class today?"

I fear that our Agnostic Conscientious Contributor doth protest too much.

Gomeza said:

All I can say is can you think of a better term to describe how children have been traditionally introduced to their parent's religion around the world?

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How interesting that you can not.

I am experiencing some severely tough love here.

Adrift said:

It looks like he's just examining you. I see some truth in there even though it is a little annoying.

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I see the truth in what he is saying as well and I thought I explained my choice of wording honestly . . .

Jayhawker Soule said:

How interesting that you can not.

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You brought up the initial objection and put some effort into doing so . . . enlighten us with your better choice of wording.

If you don't mind a third party's interpretation, I think he's only trying to point out that you may have some prejudice towards religious folk due to your experience with them. I can easily agree that illogical, fearful "christians" pound their bibles as much as they pound beliefs into their children, but it isn't fair to say that "most people born into the human race" are indoctrinated.

Let me tell you a story about the last Bar Mitzvah I attended.

For those with no experience in the matter, the child leads a good part of the service, leading the prayers, reading from the Torah, and presenting a sermon (a dvar torah) based on what was read. The child is typically the product of a number of years of Jewish religious school which prepares the boy or girl for this occasion.

In this case, the Torah portion was the Akedah - the famous (or infamous) Binding of Isaac.

After doing a fine job reading the Torah portion in Hebrew, this 13 year boy proceeded to speak at length about how and why God was unjust in His handling of the situation. The arguments were the arguments of a fairly smart 13 year old - praise worthy but certainly not brilliant. What was noteworthy and obvious was the following:

• The child clearly thought through the matter.
• He was supported in doing so by the Rabbi, his other instructors, and his parents.
• The congregation was proud of his performance and not in least surprised or offended by his interpretation of the matter at hand.

And what makes me most proud is the realization that I find nothing particularly surprising about that particular service. Children are not indoctrinated at my synagogue; they are taught scripture and tradition and encouraged to think about both deeply and honestly. At least for the Reform, Conservative, and Reconstructionist movements here, in Europe, and in Israel, I very much suspect that this is the norm.

Gomeza said:

Most people born into the human race are indoctrinated from an early age into the religion of their parents. For the most part this is the case across all cultures and across all religions. A great number of people continue in the "family" religion while a growing number of people look elsewhere for answers. Remarkably however, the vast majority of people when asked will answer with a variant of having arrived at their beliefs after careful deliberation.

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In my case, I can't say I was indoctrinated.

Growing up, I didn't have any religious belief forced on me. I was free to go with my Mom to church if I wanted (and sometimes I went), but I was never forced or even persuaded to go - it was completely up to me. While I knew my Dad didn't attend any church, I didn't know until after he died that he was an atheist.

I consider myself an atheist now, but only after having given religion (mainly Catholic Christianity, in an attempt to make my now-estranged wife happy) as good a try as I could muster.