some questions for muslims on this board

I have some questions for muslims. Some of these can be generally applied to theists as well, some are more specific to islam.

1. Why does almost every description of allah/god also equal non-existence?
2. If nobody has seen allah/god why is "it" referred to as a male?
3. Why does allah/god need to bribe us into doing good deeds by promising us with "heaven"? Shouldn't we do good deeds for the pleasure of doing good?
4. The koran claims that allah/god gave 128,000 prophets. How much of a god is allah if all 128,000 prophets failed and then Muhammad with a final message?
5. Why can't allah/god heal amputees?
6. 1 of Allah's 99 names translates as the Deceiver. Why would you believe in any such deity?
7. Why are there so many specific hadiths about how to live your life? If there's no compulsion in religion should I be allowed to do what I want?
8. Why can men have four wives but women have to stick with one husband?
9. Why does god want you to walk counter-clockwise around Ka'aba and then run up and down the hills of Al-Safa and Al-Marwah?
The Ka'aba was destroyed at least twice after muhammad's death. Why didn't allah send birds to protect the Ka'aba then?
10. How do you know muhammad (or any previous prophet like jesus, john the baptist, etc.) weren't narcissists? How do you know that they didn't suffer from mental disorders like schizophrenia, ADD, or that they weren't compulsive liars?

I'm not Muslim but it seems with some of these questions you've got an axe to grind.

Uragand-2 said:

I'm not Muslim but it seems with some of these questions you've got an axe to grind.

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:yes:

LeftishBritInPA said:

I have some questions for muslims. Some of these can be generally applied to theists as well, some are more specific to islam.

1. Why does almost every description of allah/god also equal non-existence?
2. If nobody has seen allah/god why is "it" referred to as a male?
3. Why does allah/god need to bribe us into doing good deeds by promising us with "heaven"? Shouldn't we do good deeds for the pleasure of doing good?
4. The koran claims that allah/god gave 128,000 prophets. How much of a god is allah if all 128,000 prophets failed and then Muhammad with a final message?
5. Why can't allah/god heal amputees?
6. 1 of Allah's 99 names translates as the Deceiver. Why would you believe in any such deity?
7. Why are there so many specific hadiths about how to live your life? If there's no compulsion in religion should I be allowed to do what I want?
8. Why can men have four wives but women have to stick with one husband?
9. Why does god want you to walk counter-clockwise around Ka'aba and then run up and down the hills of Al-Safa and Al-Marwah?
The Ka'aba was destroyed at least twice after muhammad's death. Why didn't allah send birds to protect the Ka'aba then?
10. How do you know muhammad (or any previous prophet like jesus, john the baptist, etc.) weren't narcissists? How do you know that they didn't suffer from mental disorders like schizophrenia, ADD, or that they weren't compulsive liars?

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Before making any discussions we should know first why you are pointing to muslims only as if they are the only believers on god ,why not pointing also to Judaism & christian.

After we have your rational answer to our question then we will be glad to discuss your questions about god,the creator,point by point.

Uragand-2 said:

I'm not Muslim but it seems with some of these questions you've got an axe to grind.

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i tend to agree with you here.

kai said:

i tend to agree with you here.

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Indeed.

No axe needs grinding.

1. Show an example
2. We just say male, we give a gender to everything. Cars have no gender but they are labeled a 'she'. In some languages like my native language, we don't have the equivalent of 'it' so we either call God he or she, he is what we use since we refer to most things 'he'.
3. To a rapist, there is nothing wrong with raping someone. If we define 'good' individually then everything is good, who would be so stupid to do something bad like rape someone unless they think it's OK? And he doesn't bribe us, the purpose of our creation is to worship God, so anyone who does so will get rewarded.
4. The Qur'an never mentions more than 25 Prophets by name, and never mentions the number 128,000. It is the Hadith which actually say 124,000. Each Prophet was sent to a particular people/tribe. Once they would deviate from what God had sent them after the death of the Prophet, he would send another Prophet specific to them. Muhammed is universal to unite all people under one law and to create a global community.
5. Where did you hear that God can't heal amputees?
6. I need to read up on that a little.
7. There is no compulsion towards a non-Muslim. Those who do become Muslims must follow what they 'signed up' for. Which we chose to out of our own choice.
8. Women outnumber men, read upon statistics. A woman, when pregnant or when having her periods, is not to have sex so both husband and wife refrain from having sex. If she had 4 husbands and was pregnant they'd all have to wait for her. Women can wait longer than men I'll just mention the word 'logic' here and I'm sure you can join the dots.
9. In Islam, going counter clock-wise is going right, going clock-wise means going left. So the opposite of the non-Islamic left and right. We travel from Safa to Marwah and 7 times, (safa to marwah = 1, back from marwah to safa = 1) It is what the wife of Abraham, Hagar did when she first arrived in the land we now call Makkah when she was searching for water. We continue doing what she did.
Does rebuilding the Kaba equate do destroying it according to you?
10. Do you have anything that suggests that what you are saying is true of them?

trruth said:

Before making any discussions we should know first why you are pointing to muslims only as if they are the only believers on god ,why not pointing also to Judaism & christian.

After we have your rational answer to our question then we will be glad to discuss your questions about god,the creator,point by point.

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I have also created a thread addressed to xtians in the main part of the "Religious Debates" forum.

LeftishBritInPA said:

I have also created a thread addressed to xtians in the main part of the "Religious Debates" forum.

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And it looks like you have an ax to grind there as well....

LeftishBritInPA said:

I have also created a thread addressed to xtians in the main part of the "Religious Debates" forum.

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How special.

LeftishBritInPA said:

I have also created a thread addressed to xtians in the main part of the "Religious Debates" forum.

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Thanks,

let me discuss point 3,good deeds and heaven.

According to islam we are in a test,if you pass the test then you saved.
why the test ? because god will not accept any wrong doers in his paradise,
only honest,obedient and faithful ones will be in his paradise.

See how test is required even to hire an employee
All new employees to State service must serve at least a six (6) month initial working test period during which their performance is evaluated by their supervisor. Employees who are hired in the class of Social Worker or Social Worker Trainee will serve a ten (10) month working test period. Employees who are hired in the class of State School Teacher or Pupil Services Specialist will serve a one (1) year working test period, Reference

awaiting for your comments regarding poin 3

LeftishBritInPA said:

1. Why does almost every description of allah/god also equal non-existence?
2. If nobody has seen allah/god why is "it" referred to as a male?
3. Why does allah/god need to bribe us into doing good deeds by promising us with "heaven"? Shouldn't we do good deeds for the pleasure of doing good?
4. The koran claims that allah/god gave 128,000 prophets. How much of a god is allah if all 128,000 prophets failed and then Muhammad with a final message?
5. Why can't allah/god heal amputees?
6. 1 of Allah's 99 names translates as the Deceiver. Why would you believe in any such deity?
7. Why are there so many specific hadiths about how to live your life? If there's no compulsion in religion should I be allowed to do what I want?
8. Why can men have four wives but women have to stick with one husband?
9. Why does god want you to walk counter-clockwise around Ka'aba and then run up and down the hills of Al-Safa and Al-Marwah?
The Ka'aba was destroyed at least twice after muhammad's death. Why didn't allah send birds to protect the Ka'aba then?
10. How do you know muhammad (or any previous prophet like jesus, john the baptist, etc.) weren't narcissists? How do you know that they didn't suffer from mental disorders like schizophrenia, ADD, or that they weren't compulsive liars?

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I'm not a Muslim, but may I try to answer some of these questions according to my own view/knowledge?

1.) Don't understand that question.

2.) As far as I know Allah is not a masculine word but rather a neuter.

3.) Each religion teaches that doing good deeds will bring you pleasure and doing bad deeds will bring you pain.
Even Hinduism and Buddhism teach this, just they know the law of Karma.
Doing good deeds often gives you uncomfortable experiences, while doing selfish things often give pleasure: Therefore religions teach that even if doing good things can be painful at the moment, you will gain reward later.
It's a way to teach people to look upon others too.

5.) Who says he/she/it cannot heal amputees?
Who says amputees have never been healed by God, have you asked each person with 2 arms & 2 legs if he or she was an amputee?
Just because a deed of God is not written down, it doesn't mean it never happened.

8.) The idea that a man can have several wives at one time but a woman only one husband exists or existed in many cultures.
I think is has to do with higher infant mortality ( 1 man + several women = more children) and partriarchal structure of society.

10.) If someone is mental ill or enlightened is often subjective: One person thinks Jesus was the son of God, another person thinks he was a freak.

eselam said:

2. We just say male, we give a gender to everything. Cars have no gender but they are labeled a 'she'. In some languages like my native language, we don't have the equivalent of 'it' so we either call God he or she, he is what we use since we refer to most things 'he'.

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In Hinduism the Gods are either male or female (and in some cases both together!). Yet the totality of existence is called Brahman and to the best of my knowledge Brahman is not referred to by any gender.

eselam said:

3. To a rapist, there is nothing wrong with raping someone. If we define 'good' individually then everything is good, who would be so stupid to do something bad like rape someone unless they think it's OK? And he doesn't bribe us, the purpose of our creation is to worship God, so anyone who does so will get rewarded.

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Doing something for its own sake, which would be a rather spontaneous act, is different from doing something with a motive. In spirituality the teaching is to act spontaneously and not with motive.

eselam said:

4. The Qur'an never mentions more than 25 Prophets by name, and never mentions the number 128,000. It is the Hadith which actually say 124,000. Each Prophet was sent to a particular people/tribe. Once they would deviate from what God had sent them after the death of the Prophet, he would send another Prophet specific to them. Muhammed is universal to unite all people under one law and to create a global community.

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Allah has not succeeded so far. Has the Quran also failed?

eselam said:

5. Where did you hear that God can't heal amputees?

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If we dig Hindu mythology I am sure we would find cases of organs growing back like in Terminator but the questioner wants a scientifically verifiable present-day case.

eselam said:

6. I need to read up on that a little.

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If Allah says in the Quran He is the best of deceivers, Krishna also says the same thing in the Bhagavad Gita.

eselam said:

7. There is no compulsion towards a non-Muslim. Those who do become Muslims must follow what they 'signed up' for. Which we chose to out of our own choice.

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That is, Muslims have no freedom of religion once they "sign up".

eselam said:

8. Women outnumber men, read upon statistics. A woman, when pregnant or when having her periods, is not to have sex so both husband and wife refrain from having sex. If she had 4 husbands and was pregnant they'd all have to wait for her. Women can wait longer than men I'll just mention the word 'logic' here and I'm sure you can join the dots.

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Is this a justification for men to keep a harem?

eselam said:

9. In Islam, going counter clock-wise is going right, going clock-wise means going left. So the opposite of the non-Islamic left and right.

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Isn’t going clockwise the same for everyone – taking a left turn? In Mecca do they not take a right turn around Kaaba and therefore go anti-clockwise? Please clarify.

eselam said:

We travel from Safa to Marwah and 7 times, (safa to marwah = 1, back from marwah to safa = 1) It is what the wife of Abraham, Hagar did when she first arrived in the land we now call Makkah when she was searching for water. We continue doing what she did.

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A pre Islamic ritual?

eselam said:

Does rebuilding the Kaba equate do destroying it according to you?

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Birds. He was asking about the birds.

eselam said:

10. Do you have anything that suggests that what you are saying is true of them?

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Jesus said you can judge a tree by its fruits.

I have a question for you as well.
1. While you are not muslim and see from a perspective outside of islam-
What is it that makes you think God should "do something".
I do not question God. In the resources of him only in him is infinate wisdom.
2. Why is it others points of view captures ALLAH as deciever and you find it wise, yet fail to see GOD (the same 1 you turn to) refered to with arabic eyes and place him so poorly?
These to questions confuse me in your approach to understand Islam
Thank you.
May your questions be answered and your eyes open to see in a great way!

eselam said:

8. Women outnumber men, read upon statistics.

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The ratio of men to women according to a study conducted in 2009 indicates men outnumber women just slightly by 1.1=1.

Yes, read up on statistics.

A woman, when pregnant or when having her periods, is not to have sex so both husband and wife refrain from having sex. If she had 4 husbands and was pregnant they'd all have to wait for her. Women can wait longer than men I'll just mention the word 'logic' here and I'm sure you can join the dots.

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I see no logic in that at all, but I do see a serious problem with planned parenthood and the population crisis, not to mention the downgrading of women to that of bearing children and not much else.

Why not just tell the truth and say that Islam promotes the Arab misogynistic mindset?

Because Islam does not promote misgoynistic mindset.
It is a value system based on family!
The man is the head of the family and should lead the family in the ways of islam and keep to seeing that the family is guided in the greatness of what it can be.
Too many times people impose the way they see and fail to realize the truths of other ways of responding.
Try defineing Islam with a minset that it promotes - responsible men.
Supportive husbands. Loving and caring fathers. Men far removed from a selfish lifestyle, but, able to support the foundations of family!

elmarna said:

Too many times people impose the way they see and fail to realize the truths of other ways of responding.

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This is just the charge I have against Islam - it imposes its way and fails to realize the truths of other ways of responding.

K.Venugopal said:

This is just the charge I have against Islam - it imposes its way and fails to realize the truths of other ways of responding.

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If that was true you would be a Muslim would you not?

A Troubled Man said:

The ratio of men to women according to a study conducted in 2009 indicates men outnumber women just slightly by 1.1=1.

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Not surprising: In many countries there is a pratice of selective abortion - they don't want girls.

A Troubled Man said:

I see no logic in that at all, but I do see a serious problem with planned parenthood and the population crisis, not to mention the downgrading of women to that of bearing children and not much else.

Why not just tell the truth and say that Islam promotes the Arab misogynistic mindset?

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To be fair, most religions have (at least in their practise) a problem with their treatment of women.

elmarna said:

Because Islam does not promote misgoynistic mindset.
It is a value system based on family!

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I refer you to An-Nisa 34, which explains your definition of a "value system based on family" and supports the claim of Arab misogyny.

"Men are in charge of women by [right of] what Allah has given one over the other and what they spend [for maintenance] from their wealth. So righteous women are devoutly obedient, guarding in [the husband's] absence what Allah would have them guard. But those [wives] from whom you fear arrogance - [first] advise them; [then if they persist], forsake them in bed; and [finally], strike them. But if they obey you [once more], seek no means against them. Indeed, Allah is ever Exalted and Grand."

Surat An-Nisa' [4:34] - The Noble Qur'an - ?????? ??????

Try defineing Islam with a minset that it promotes - responsible men.
Supportive husbands. Loving and caring fathers. Men far removed from a selfish lifestyle, but, able to support the foundations of family!

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So, according to you, a supportive husband and loving, caring father far removed from a selfish lifestyle should forsake and beat their wives?