Bob Dixon
>implying
Personally, I think he went up into the mountain for solitude, and not because the mountain is more spiritual a place than any other.
-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
Why are idols bad?
- Thread starter DeviChaaya
- Start date
Personally, I think he went up into the mountain for solitude, and not because the mountain is more spiritual a place than any other.
The main reason is people in the Abrahamic world don't understand hinduism. The old testament speaks disparagingly about idols as competitors to the one God concept. That is very different from the idol representing an aspect of God.
I sure hope none of this negative talk about idols distracts you from your worthwhile practice. Please understand their ignorance and you might try explaining it to people. If they want to be combative, then ignore them.
It seems rather self evident, but if you can't see that, there is aways the Bible.
Satyamavejayanti
Well-Known Member
In what direction is the creator GOD that you speak of?
If they are involved with idols they are.
"OUR" kind of worship will aways be wrong if does not agree with God's.
Vrindavana Das
Active Member
Supreme Lord - Krishna, in Srimad Bhagavatam says:
Whenever one develops faith in Me in My form as the Deity or in other bona fide manifestations one should worship Me in that form. I certainly exist both within all created beings and also separately in My original form, since I am the Supreme Soul of all.[S.B.11.27.48]
Deity worship most certainly is in-line with what God says. If some does not know, well...
arcādiṣu yadā yatra
śraddhā māḿ tatra cārcayet
sarva-bhūteṣv ātmani ca
sarvātmāham avasthitaḥ
śraddhā māḿ tatra cārcayet
sarva-bhūteṣv ātmani ca
sarvātmāham avasthitaḥ
Whenever one develops faith in Me in My form as the Deity or in other bona fide manifestations one should worship Me in that form. I certainly exist both within all created beings and also separately in My original form, since I am the Supreme Soul of all.[S.B.11.27.48]
Deity worship most certainly is in-line with what God says. If some does not know, well...
Namaste George-ananda
Don't worry; this won't distract me from my sadhana. I was just, honestly, curious why people believe 'idols', or probably more appropriately icons, are bad. And why is a God who deigns to take form for us such a terribly bad thing? Why must God be formless?
Breathe
Hostis humani generis
Why would I care what is written in another religion's scripture? It's not my own and holds no spiritual authority for me.
1) Yes, the Whole
2) God has no limits. hence why He can be fully manifest in many places at any time
3) No. The reason that statues are designed is to cater to the human psyche. As social creatures, we find it much easier to relate to something if it has a face, for example. So God encourages us to use statues or images with personal features as it helps us to relate and to form a connection.
I am not sure if I have explained to you before or not. The Lord manifests within the physical deity for our sake. The relationship we form can be very, very powerful. The cultivation of love and devotion and faith becomes quite intense through this form of worship. But when the devotee becomes very spiritually advanced, he no longer needs to perform this variety of worship. He learns to connect with God through his own core Self, as God resides in the deepest centre of every living entity. This is, imo, the highest form of worship and relationship (Vedic meditation, essentially).
God has unlimited aspects. All material things are a representation of a particular aspect. So essentially, everything is divine because everything is a part of God. Nothing can be separate from God since all things come from Him (it is illogical to claim that originally there is only God and yet somehow that which comes from him is not part of him).
So bodies, plants, rock, matter etc. are part of God's creative potency (one of his many energies). But a part of God cannot be said to BE God. Ie/ A tree is not God, because 'God' means the Whole, the Source, the Absolute. A tree is only one extremely tiny aspect of an aspect of an aspect of the Divine.
Does that make sense so far?
The size and shape of a deity makes no difference. The point is that the devotee sees the Lord within the deity and for his sake, the Lord becomes present there.
The picture or deity is only an object. It is part of Brahman (impersonal aspect of God). But when the devotee uses it as a focal point for worship, the Lord becomes fully present there. The deity does not become God. God becomes the deity. And yet his is infinitely present and manifest everywhere at all times. This is the greatness of God.
I want to clarify that Hindus do not believe that you must have a particular object and it must look a particular way and there must be a particular kind of worship. Essentially, we believe people are on different levels spiritually and have different inclinations. This is why even in Hinduism there are different sects who worship in different ways. Some people find deity worship very useful. Others gain nothing from it but instead find other forms of worship more beneficial. This is partly why Hindus are often accepting of other religious traditions, because we see that people are born into or attracted to the forms of spirituality that suit their unique personalities and stages of spiritual development.
There is no right or wrong way to worship God, we believe. As long as whatever you do is in God-consciousness (thinking of God) and with love and devotion, humility and sincerity. Krishna says in the Gita:
"f one offers Me with love and devotion a leaf, a flower, fruit or water, I will accept it."
He does not require to be treated like a king or require that we follow strict rules if we are not capable. What is most important is that we cultivate the love that lies in the core of our Selves and which inevitably brings us to God and full knowledge.
We are not going to see eye to eye with this sort of debating. My belief is that God encourages many forms of worship and that the deities humans use for worship are not 'idols' as you would label them.
Pegg
Jehovah our God is One
Supreme Lord - Krishna, in Srimad Bhagavatam says:
arcādiṣu yadā yatra
śraddhā māḿ tatra cārcayet
sarva-bhūteṣv ātmani ca
sarvātmāham avasthitaḥ
Whenever one develops faith in Me in My form as the Deity or in other bona fide manifestations one should worship Me in that form. I certainly exist both within all created beings and also separately in My original form, since I am the Supreme Soul of all.[S.B.11.27.48]
Deity worship most certainly is in-line with what God says. If some does not know, well...
what evidence is there that the hindu scriptures are actually from the Almighty God?
Breathe
Hostis humani generis
About the same amount of evidence as any other religion's claims.
Wannabe Yogi
Well-Known Member
I find that the Gita speaks for it self. It is truth.
Pegg
Jehovah our God is One
such as what?
the bible for example has evidence of divine authorship by its many prophecies and also by the miracles the prophets were able to perform...so does the hindu texts have similar?
Hinduism is about discovery. It teaches methods of finding out truth instead of just having faith. There are many Hindus who, like most people, only have faith. But there are also many who follow this path or end up drawn to this path through mystical experiences or actual Realisations.
Aside from that, I agree with Wannabe. The Gita, along with many of the scriptures, speak for themselves. I acknowledge the subjectivity of my following statement. I have found no concepts or philosophies with as much intelligence as Vedic scriptures nor any religion that so accurately embodies my experiences with life and my perceptions about life.
Again, my following statement is subjective. The absolute love and joy and peace that comes from worship of God; Bhagavan, is beyond anything I can imagine being able to achieve through material activities. It relinquishes all fears, all attachments, all material desires. It leaves you without doubt. Many Hindus have such strong faith due to this experience of complete Bliss through our service to this, our God.
This explains my reasons for believing in this God. I can't prove anything.
Yes, many. And you will find a lot of prophesies in all sorts of religions. Which is why I don't use it to prove that my religion is the right one. Maybe there is no 'right' one.
The same can be said for the bible, Pegg. I see no evidence, in that book, that it is the word of God. I do, however, see plenty of evidence amongst the multitudinous Hindu scriptures that speak to the Truth and, more importantly, I see it in the practise of my Hindu brethren.
Breathe
Hostis humani generis
Such as not much at all.
Prophecies are subjective; the miracles of the prophets are hearsay. Various Hindu texts have prophecies and stories of miracles. However, I don't really care for these, personally.
For me it's the spiritual truths I find in the Hindu texts, and not stories of miracles, prophecies, incarnations etc, that I think it's a great text. A text can have many stories miracles in it, but if it offers me no spiritual joy or guidance, it's not for me -- in this case, the Bible.
Likewise, a text can never once talk of or the idea of miracles being wholly insignificant, such as the Gurū Granth Sāhib (Sikh holy text), but if it offers spiritual joy and guidance, then it is useful for me.
To explain it, it's like this:
Bhagavad Gītā: 7:8-11:
BG 7.8: O son of Kuntī, I am the taste of water, the light of the sun and the moon, the syllable oḿ in the Vedic mantras; I am the sound in ether and ability in man.
BG 7.9: I am the original fragrance of the earth, and I am the heat in fire. I am the life of all that lives, and I am the penances of all ascetics.
BG 7.10: O son of Pṛthā, know that I am the original seed of all existences, the intelligence of the intelligent, and the prowess of all powerful men.
BG 7.11: I am the strength of the strong, devoid of passion and desire. I am sex life which is not contrary to religious principles, O lord of the Bhāratas [Arjuna].
BG 7.8: O son of Kuntī, I am the taste of water, the light of the sun and the moon, the syllable oḿ in the Vedic mantras; I am the sound in ether and ability in man.
BG 7.9: I am the original fragrance of the earth, and I am the heat in fire. I am the life of all that lives, and I am the penances of all ascetics.
BG 7.10: O son of Pṛthā, know that I am the original seed of all existences, the intelligence of the intelligent, and the prowess of all powerful men.
BG 7.11: I am the strength of the strong, devoid of passion and desire. I am sex life which is not contrary to religious principles, O lord of the Bhāratas [Arjuna].
Versus something like the following:
Mark 13:7
When you hear of wars and rumors of wars, do not be alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come.
Revelation 20:1-3
And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven, having the key to the Abyss and holding in his hand a great chain. 2 He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years. 3 He threw him into the Abyss, and locked and sealed it over him, to keep him from deceiving the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended. After that, he must be set free for a short time.
When you hear of wars and rumors of wars, do not be alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come.
Revelation 20:1-3
And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven, having the key to the Abyss and holding in his hand a great chain. 2 He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years. 3 He threw him into the Abyss, and locked and sealed it over him, to keep him from deceiving the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended. After that, he must be set free for a short time.
The latter just doesn't 'speak' to me at all, either spiritually or intellectually, so it's not true for me. They both have about the same in the way of evidence (scientific evidence), which isn't a lot.