Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
Joe,
KJV - Luke 6:22 Blessed are ye, when men shall hate you, and when they shall separate you from their company, and shall reproach you, and cast our your name as evil, for the Son of man's sake.
JST - Luke 6:22 Blessed are ye, when men shall hate you, and when they shall separate you from among them, and shall reproach you, and cast our your name as evil, for the Son of Man's sake.
KJV - John 4:53 So the father knew that it was at the same hour, in the which Jesus said unto him, Thy son liveth: and himself helieved, and his whole house.
JST - John 4:53 So the father knew that his son was healed in the same hour, in the which Jesus said unto him, Thy son liveth: and himself helieved, and his whole house.
KJV - Matthew 2:14 When he arose, he took the young child and his mother by night, and departed into Egypt.
JST - Matthew 2:14 And then he arose, and took the young child and the child's mother by night, and departed into Egypt.
I appears to me that you are blowing this whole Joseph Smith translation thing way, way, way out of proportion.
Kathryn
Are you saying that you don't accept John's gospel account or his three epistles? They were written after Revelation. Apparently John didn't think God's admonition applied to Him.joeboonda said:When in discussion with Mormons I bring up the concept of the closure of Scripture and how we are not to add to the word ie. the Book of Mormon. This why we do not believe that another testament is acceptable or verifiable today. The book of revelation is the closing book for Gods revelation through his prophets to the Church.
We are told several times throughout the Bible not to make additions to Gods word that is called Scripture. Deut. 4:2 You shall not add to the word which I command you, nor take anything from it, that you may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.
How you can possibly use this rationale is beyond me! If Deuteronomy 12:32 were to be interpreted as you have interpreted it, we would have no scripture after the fifth book of the Old Testament! The Jews don't accept the New Testament because they consider the Old Testament to be the only valid record of God's word. They could accuse all Christians of doing exactly what you are accusing the Latter-day Saints of doing. Are you seriously telling me you can't see that? Tell me, do you believe that God has a right to add to His own words or do you somehow feel justified in telling Him He's finished speaking because you're finished listening? I have news for you, Joe: God can add to His words any time He wants to. The real question is not can man arbitrarily decide he's going to add to God's words. The real question is, was Joseph Smith a true prophet? If he was, he did not add to God's words any more than Moses or Abraham or Isaiah did. All he did was record God's words as they were revealed to him.Mormons will say this means not to add to the book of Deuteronomy. But although this command is found in this 2nd book of the law it is not exclusive to this one book.
The Bible refers to its writings as Scripture 1 Cor. 4:6 that you may learn in us not to think beyond what is written, that none of you may be puffed up on behalf of one against the other.
I see. So now we're motivated by pride, huh?To go beyond what Scripture says means one is motivated by pride, the same character trait that made the Devil fall into sin.
So who's saying that entirety of God's word is not truth? Certainly not the Latter-day Saints. The Bible refers to God's words as scripture. Nowhere in the Bible are we told that all of God's words are to be found within that one volume. You may choose to believe that to be the case if you wish, but you haven't one shred of evidence to support your opinion. The people of the ancient Americas were told by God to record the words spoken by their prophets. That's exactly what they did. Joseph Smith merely translated that record. Go ahead and insist that the Bible is the sole record of God's dealings with His children, but please don't pretend that the Bible backs you up.Jesus and the apostles all concurred, The entirety of Your word is truth (Psalms 119: 160).
How so? First off, we don't "inadvertently" state that the Book of Mormon is God's word. We do so quite intentionally. Until you can offer up some evidence to support your premise that the Book of Mormon is not God's word at all, your accusations are meaningless.The importance of Gods word held in this respect is clear by saying in Psalm 138:2 You have magnified Your word above all Your name When a Mormon inadvertently states the book of Mormon is considered the word of God alongside the Bible they have removed the Bibles authority replacing it with a mans.
To clarify what they have done I would like to point out After Joseph had translated the Book of Mormon from the gold plates, the Lord COMMANDED him to TRANSLATE THE BIBLE. ...[T]his young man, Joseph Smith, ...was commanded to translate the Bible BY INSPIRATION. LDS Apostle Orson Pratt, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 15, pp. 247-249)
Joseph didn't rewrite the Bible. He translated it. He didn't need any knowledge of Hebrew of Greek, since he was inspired as to what the text was to say. There have been hundreds of translations of the Bible. Do you hold all Bible translators in contempt or do you reserve that judgment solely for Joseph Smith?According to Mormonism Joseph Smith rewrote the Bible in the early 1830's. Without any knowledge of Hebrew or Greek language or manuscripts, he 'restored' what had been lost. This 'restoration of the bible' is known today as the Joseph Smith Translation (JST). What makes this more intriguing is that the Inspired version tells us how Joseph Smith received this revelation to write a NEW Holy book narrating the experience of Moses when he was caught up into an exceeding high mountain, and he saw God face to face, and he talked with him
Joseph Smith was commanded by God to publish the new translation of the Bible ... I have commanded you to organize yourselves, even to shinelah [print] my words, the fulness of my scriptures ...(Doctrine and Covenants, 104:58).... the second lot ... shall be dedicated unto me for the building of a house unto me, for the work of the printing of the translation of my scriptures ... (ibid. 94:10). hearken to the counsel of my servant Joseph,... and publish the new translation of my holy word unto the inhabitants of the earth (ibid. 124:89).
So what? Get out any two translations of the Bibles commonly used by Christians today and you'll come up with far more than 9000 discrepancies between the words used in one and the words used in the other. I suspect you don't have a clue as to how the Joseph Smith translation compares to the KJV. My KJV is 1590 pages long. Let me just give you three very brief examples of some typical differences between the KJV and the JST. The changes are in italics.Joseph wrote: I COMPLETED the translation and review of the NEW TESTAMENT on the 2nd of February, 1833, and sealed it up, no more to be opened till it arrived in Zion. (LDS Prophet Joseph Smith, February 2, 1833, and Times and Seasons 5:723) We returned gratitude to our Heavenly Father... having finished the translation of the Bible a few hours since.... LDS Prophet Joseph Smith, LDS President Sidney Rigdon and LDS President F. G. Williams, History of the Church, Vol. 1, pp. 368-369, July 2, 1833. In its completion there would be over 9000 changes.
KJV - Luke 6:22 Blessed are ye, when men shall hate you, and when they shall separate you from their company, and shall reproach you, and cast our your name as evil, for the Son of man's sake.
JST - Luke 6:22 Blessed are ye, when men shall hate you, and when they shall separate you from among them, and shall reproach you, and cast our your name as evil, for the Son of Man's sake.
KJV - John 4:53 So the father knew that it was at the same hour, in the which Jesus said unto him, Thy son liveth: and himself helieved, and his whole house.
JST - John 4:53 So the father knew that his son was healed in the same hour, in the which Jesus said unto him, Thy son liveth: and himself helieved, and his whole house.
KJV - Matthew 2:14 When he arose, he took the young child and his mother by night, and departed into Egypt.
JST - Matthew 2:14 And then he arose, and took the young child and the child's mother by night, and departed into Egypt.
I appears to me that you are blowing this whole Joseph Smith translation thing way, way, way out of proportion.
Why don't you start by telling me which Bible is a perfect translation. Would it be the KJV or some other translation? No two translations are the same.So we are to accept these just as one would accept the former 66 books of the Bible. Further we are to accept the fact the Bible is corrupted that it needed a modern prophet to restore its truth.
You just don't get it, do you? You've got this naive notion in your head that the "Bible" you personally use is letter-perfect and that it was somehow dictated verbatim, not to the original writers, but to the translators! I guess He also personally determined the order in which the chapters would be placed. And all of this took place hundreds of years after He ceased to communicate to mankind. Would you care to explain how this took place?Important changes were made in several thousand verses, but there are yet thousands of passages to be revised, clarified, and perfected. After his work of revision, the Prophet frequently quoted parts of the King James Version, announced that they contained errors, and gave clarified translations -- none of which he had incorporated into his prior revisions of the Bible. (Mormon Doctrine, Bruce R. McConkie, p.384, under Inspired Version of the Bible)
Kathryn