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What do Muslims believe?

Maize said:
The Shield of Islam said:
We are not talking about the formation of the moon maize, we are talking about splitting the moon ( one of prophet Muhammad(pbuh ) mircales.

Then why the NASA article on the moon being formed from the Earth? :?

The article seems to suggest that the moon was split at one time in its history, you know, the full article was removed from NASA site for some strange reason...I cant find the whole article !!
 
Runt said:
No, he has posted a NASA article in an attempt to show evidence the moon was split. The article has nothing to do with his belief. He is therefore trying to deceive rather than back up his belief.

Or he's simply misunderstanding that it was the EARTH splitting that created the moon, rather than the moon itself splitting. And if he wants to attribute what others may call a "natural phenomonen" to his God, then so be it. Also understand that his first language is not English... there could be misunderstandings based on that too... I know I sound illogical and misunderstand things all the time when I try to go from English to Spanish... *shrugs* Too bad we're not telepathic...

Thank you runt, English is not my first languge, beside, he chose deliberately to IGNORE the historical proof about the splitting of the moon !

About the article, I cant find the full article, it was here, but when I went there look what I got:

File Not Found

We're sorry. The page you are looking for has been removed. We've recently revamped our entire website, so please feel free to visit our new Sitemap and look around for the link you were trying to find. You can also contact us if you are unable to find what you were looking for.

http://solarsystem.nasa.gov/404.cfm

Very Strange !!!
 
(Q) said:
No Q, you're getting the impression that he believes differently than you do, and you don't like it.

No, he has posted a NASA article in an attempt to show evidence the moon was split. The article has nothing to do with his belief. He is therefore trying to deceive rather than back up his belief.

This is not true and you know it...I have the full article which is similar to the one I posted on my favourites but it was REMOVED for very strange reason:

File Not Found

We're sorry. The page you are looking for has been removed. We've recently revamped our entire website, so please feel free to visit our new Sitemap and look around for the link you were trying to find. You can also contact us if you are unable to find what you were looking for.

http://solarsystem.nasa.gov/404.cfm
 

Green Gaia

Veteran Member
The Shield of Islam said:
The article seems to suggest that the moon was split at one time in its history, you know, the full article was removed from NASA site for some strange reason...I cant find the whole article !!

I still don't see how the NASA article proves that the Prophet Muhammad split the moon in half. If you want to believe he did, fine I'm not going to try to change your mind, but the "evidence" you are posting is not convincing enough for me. :?
 
Well maize, as I said, the whole article that SPECIFICALLY talk about splitting the moon has been REMOVED !!

File Not Found

We're sorry. The page you are looking for has been removed. We've recently revamped our entire website, so please feel free to visit our new Sitemap and look around for the link you were trying to find. You can also contact us if you are unable to find what you were looking for.

http://solarsystem.nasa.gov/404.cfm

But anyway, how about the HISTORICAL proof ?????????
 

Green Gaia

Veteran Member
Sheild, your historical proof is still not enough for me. If the moon had split in two during the lifetime of the Prophet Muhammad, there would be accounts from all over the Earth of this phenomenon happening, wouldn't you say? Your historical proof is full of names, places and words I am not familiar with and really can't comment on their validity. Why is it so important that you convince others this happened?
 
Maize said:
Sheild, your historical proof is still not enough for me. If the moon had split in two during the lifetime of the Prophet Muhammad, there would be accounts from all over the Earth of this phenomenon happening, wouldn't you say? Your historical proof is full of names, places and words I am not familiar with and really can't comment on their validity. Why is it so important that you convince others this happened?

First of all, the splitting of the moon happened and lasted no more than 2 mins so the chances of it being picked up by other nations is slim ALTHOUGH Japanese records of that era also show that the moon was indeed splitt into 2 pieces.

Second, I am not interested in convicing anyone about this miracle but when YOU asked for proof, I submitted one for you, that's all.
 

Green Gaia

Veteran Member
Oh, so only a few special people got to see it, ok. Kind of like Jesus walking on water? How do you know the Japanese records are of the same event? Where are these records and what do they say?
 
Come on Maize ! when I brought you the historical proof you claimed to not know the names and being unfamiliar with the event, Now you want the other Japanese proof so that you will repeat the same words you said in response to the historical proof !! if you dont want to believe in this miracle it is your own business, but please, dont question something you already deny and will deny no matter what kind of proof presented to you.

Stop asking questions which when I answer you accuse me of trying to impose or convince you !!! it is getting pathetic !!

:roll:
 

Green Gaia

Veteran Member
Give it a rest, Shield. Calling someone pathetic is not a good way to make friends. :)

I wanted the Japanese "proof" because it would supposedly be a non-Islamic source. A non-baised source, if you will. But if you don't know to show me that's fine... I'm sure it won't convince me of the "miracle" either, but I'm curious about all things in a histortical context. I just wanted to see it out of curiousity.
 
Maize said:
Give it a rest, Shield. Calling someone pathetic is not a good way to make friends. :)


I did not call you pathetic, I said: it is getting pathetic ( the whole situation)

I wanted the Japanese "proof" because it would supposedly be a non-Islamic source.

Well, the Historical proof about the Indian king is from NON MUSLIM sources as well !! :roll:

A non-baised source, if you will. But if you don't know to show me that's fine... I'm sure it won't convince me of the "miracle" either, but I'm curious about all things in a histortical context. I just wanted to see it out of curiousity.

No problem !! since you declared your intentions of not being convinced NO MATTER WHAT, I suppose we shall leave it and move on.

Have a very nice day my friend ( if you allow me to use the word friend here ) !! :wink:
 
best friend said:
in God's complete authority over destiny, be it good or bad; and in life after death.

That is a problem. Which leads to this: How do you assure yourself heaven? Predestination is unfair and cruel, especially when it means damnation for some and heaven for others. I have seen verses in the Koran which are deadly theological errors:

We sent not an apostle except (to teach) in the language of his (own) people, in order to make (things) clear to them. Now Allah leaves straying those whom He pleases and guides whom He pleases: and He is Exalted in power, full of Wisdom.

-Koran 14:4

Let any who will, keep it in remembrance! But none will keep it in remembrance except as Allah wills: He is the Lord of Righteousness, and the Lord of Forgiveness.

-Koran 74:55-56

This is an admonition: Whosoever will, let him take a (straight) Path to his Lord. But ye will not, except as Allah wills; for Allah is full of Knowledge and Wisdom. He will admit to His Mercy whom He will; But the wrong-doers,- for them has He prepared a grievous Penalty.

-Koran 76:29-31

Verily this is no less than a Message to (all) the Worlds: (With profit) to whoever among you wills to go straight: But ye shall not will except as Allah wills, the Cherisher of the Worlds.

-Koran 81:21-23

It just isn't right, it isn't fair, and it is ungodly.

As a Christian, I believe we were given complete free will. What we do with it is our problem. But God does not show favoritism. He loves us all equally and would not want anyone to go to hell. But those who are not saved by the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, because they don't accept Him, cannot be purged of their sin through Him. So they have to go to hell, otherwise there would be wicked people in heaven. But that is THEIR choice. Not God's. God did not create us to be puppets, he created us to share in a relationship with him.

The Ocelot
 

Green Gaia

Veteran Member
***MOD POST***

Ocelot: I suggest you take a look at the Forum Rules before posting again, please.

This is a forum for learning about Islam. There will be no debating in any of the seperate religion forums. These forums are for learning about the individual religions.

If you wish to debate a certain religion take it to the general discussion/debate/or off-topic sections.

If you have any questions about this, please PM me or another moderator.

Thank you.
Maize
 
The Shield of Islam said:
We only believe those whom their lives witness their greatness, those who performed divine miracles( like prophet Jesus raising the dead and prophet muhammad splitting the moon ) and indeed changed the course of history.

How can you hold Jesus as a prophet without being a Christian? To believe there is deity in what he says is to be Christian if he says that he is the way, the truth, and the life.

The Ocelot
 

Rex

Founder
The Ocelot said:
The Shield of Islam said:
We only believe those whom their lives witness their greatness, those who performed divine miracles( like prophet Jesus raising the dead and prophet muhammad splitting the moon ) and indeed changed the course of history.

How can you hold Jesus as a prophet without being a Christian? To believe there is deity in what he says is to be Christian if he says that he is the way, the truth, and the life.

The Ocelot

The word prophet not only means deity:

Prophet:

A person who speaks by divine inspiration or as the interpreter through whom the will of a god is expressed.

A person gifted with profound moral insight and exceptional powers of expression.

A predictor; a soothsayer.

The chief spokesperson of a movement or cause.
 
Well in either case they would have to believe that what Jesus says is true in order to hold him as a prophet, right? That's the point I'm trying to make.
 

Runt

Well-Known Member
Ocelot, I think (and Shield, correct me if I am wrong) that Muslims believe that Jesus spoke truth, but then his words were corrupted by history and were lost, making his words as they are found in the Bible (and as they are read by Christians) false.
 
Runt said:
Ocelot, I think (and Shield, correct me if I am wrong) that Muslims believe that Jesus spoke truth, but then his words were corrupted by history and were lost, making his words as they are found in the Bible (and as they are read by Christians) false.

I see, but what about the numerous scientific and historical sources which prove that the gospels were written within a century of Jesus' death?

I know that Muslims do not believe He died, but suppose he did. Wouldn't an eyewitness like Mark have credibility? He wrote the gospel of Mark 30 years after, Matthew and Luke 50 years after, and John 100 years after Jesus' death. And each says the same thing, that Jesus claimed divinity and died on the cross.

Why do muslims still believe he didn't die or say what christians think he said after evidence like that?

The Ocelot
 
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