• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Things you wished your God/Prophet never said.

HerDotness

Lady Babbleon
I agree.
If God is defined as Creation, what can be more proof of Creation than a new creature as an infant?

That doesn't mean that the infant has any clue of what "God" means which is obviously the reference of "We all begin as atheists."

I don't understand why people would be upset at the idea that everyone starts out an atheist. "Atheism" simply means not believing in gods. An infant doesn't have the mental maturity to form any kind of belief, so an infant obviously doesn't believe in God.
 

Satyamavejayanti

Well-Known Member
robo;2870532]Shalom/Namaste/Asalamaleikum:

Are there certain things you wished your God/prophet had never said?

if I were Hindu, I would find it very difficult to believe that God creates castes and assigns caste by birth. :facepalm::facepalm:

Sorry, i think you have been misinformed about the Caste system in India, Ishwar never created it, its purely a Human construction out of ignorance and illiteracy.

There is no mention of Caste in the Vedas (foundation of Hinduism, revealed scriptures)
 

robo

Active Member
Sorry, i think you have been misinformed about the Caste system in India, Ishwar never created it, its purely a Human construction out of ignorance and illiteracy.

There is no mention of Caste in the Vedas (foundation of Hinduism, revealed scriptures)

Caste system may not be in ''authoritative'' texts of Hinduism but they do find mention in other texts.

In any case, the point of this thread is not to get into apologetics/debate over the correct interpretation of holy texts whether they are of Hinduism, or Christianity or Islam.

I just want to know from you, as a Hindu, if you feel your religion would be better off without the caste system - IN HINDSIGHT.

Wouldn't that make your religion more acceptable to non-Hindus - whether mention is made of the caste system in ''authoritative'' texts or ''secondary'' texts?
 

Falvlun

Earthbending Lemur
Premium Member
I agree.
If God is defined as Creation, what can be more proof of Creation than a new creature as an infant?
Well, as an atheist, I don't believe any God exists, so that's not really why I don't like the statement.

And, as HerDotness pointed out, even if the baby is a creation of God, that doesn't equate to the baby knowing this.

That doesn't mean that the infant has any clue of what "God" means which is obviously the reference of "We all begin as atheists."

I don't understand why people would be upset at the idea that everyone starts out an atheist. "Atheism" simply means not believing in gods. An infant doesn't have the mental maturity to form any kind of belief, so an infant obviously doesn't believe in God.
While it could be argued to be technically true, I think it's a silly argument just designed to raise the hackles of people. Labels denoting beliefs should be reserved for when people are actually old enough to understand the belief, and decide whether they hold it or not-- whether we are talking about Christianity, conservatism, environmentalism, or atheism, etc. I truly feel it's meaningless to speak of "defaults" in such a matter, and a disservice to the child to slap a label on him before he even knows what he's thinking.
 

HerDotness

Lady Babbleon
While it could be argued to be technically true, I think it's a silly argument just designed to raise the hackles of people.

Perhaps, although I tend to favor the idea because it does contain truth even though not truth that religious people care to think about.

Labels denoting beliefs should be reserved for when people are actually old enough to understand the belief, and decide whether they hold it or not-- whether we are talking about Christianity, conservatism, environmentalism, or atheism, etc. I truly feel it's meaningless to speak of "defaults" in such a matter, and a disservice to the child to slap a label on him before he even knows what he's thinking.

However, parents whose faiths believe in infant baptism baptize their children as soon as possible after birth. Thus, the child is labeled a Catholic, for instance, without having any idea what that entails.

Isn't that an injustice, too? I would say so, having researched what it takes to get the RCC to rescind one's baptism. You can't. They simply affix a note to your baptismal record saying you've left the church. There've been lawsuits in Europe by people who want their membership in that church removed entirely. One can withdraw from membership in Protestant churches, but you're on the books for life in the RCC.
 

Falvlun

Earthbending Lemur
Premium Member
Isn't that an injustice, too? I would say so, having researched what it takes to get the RCC to rescind one's baptism. You can't. They simply affix a note to your baptismal record saying you've left the church. There've been lawsuits in Europe by people who want their membership in that church removed entirely. One can withdraw from membership in Protestant churches, but you're on the books for life in the RCC.

I agree it is an injustice, which is precisely why I don't want atheism going down that path.
 

Satyamavejayanti

Well-Known Member
Caste system may not be in ''authoritative'' texts of Hinduism but they do find mention in other texts.

In any case, the point of this thread is not to get into apologetics/debate over the correct interpretation of holy texts whether they are of Hinduism, or Christianity or Islam.

I just want to know from you, as a Hindu, if you feel your religion would be better off without the caste system - IN HINDSIGHT.

Wouldn't that make your religion more acceptable to non-Hindus - whether mention is made of the caste system in ''authoritative'' texts or ''secondary'' texts?

If the Caste system was gone then Hinduism/Indian society will surly be a stronger force, but in saying that there are many sampradas (sects within Hinduism) which don't follow birth based caste system and are involved in bringing people back to Hinduism (Shudhi movements). Caste discrimination is Illegal in India.

But in Hinduism there is no set system of conversion, so many don't care about what non Hindus think of Hinduism, me included.
 
Last edited:

Godobeyer

the word "Islam" means "submission" to God
Premium Member
If I were Muslim, I would find it very difficult to believe that the one person chosen from all of humankind to be the last prophet of Allah would say something like this:

Sahih Muslim, 28:5612 Buraida reported on the authority of his father that Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) said: He who played chess is like one who dyed his hand with the flesh and blood of swine.


Really? We should all stop playing chess? :facepalm::facepalm:
accuatly i made big search , and i find out that this hadith is FAKE .
 
Last edited:

HeatherAnn

Active Member
That doesn't mean that the infant has any clue of what "God" means which is obviously the reference of "We all begin as atheists."

I don't understand why people would be upset at the idea that everyone starts out an atheist. "Atheism" simply means not believing in gods. An infant doesn't have the mental maturity to form any kind of belief, so an infant obviously doesn't believe in God.

Consider what an infant DOES have a clue about: the need to survive.
What more is Creation than attraction to survive?
Philosopher Paul Tillech taught common sense: God is that which we worship... what is most important to us... our "ultimate concern" - which we all have.
 

HeatherAnn

Active Member
Well, as an atheist, I don't believe any God exists, so that's not really why I don't like the statement.

And, as HerDotness pointed out, even if the baby is a creation of God, that doesn't equate to the baby knowing this.
I just answered in my previous post, but I'd like to ask you something, Falvlun...
How do you define God?
Is God, to you defined as the tyranical Grandpa in the sky? If so, I don't believe that God exists, either.

But I DO believe that I exist, that creation happened & that energy, even energy we can't scientifically measure (like dark energy) is REAL because we know by its influence.
 

Father Heathen

Veteran Member
Why should you not stop playing chess if the Prophet of God says so?

Wait. Playing chess is actually forbidden by Islam?! That religion just keeps losing points with me... :facepalm:

But to answer your question, things that are entirely arbitrary, irrational and unsubstantiated should be dismissed as the rubbish it is. If something was actually relayed from god I would expect it to be sensible and intelligent. Nonsense isn't worth taking seriously.
 
Last edited:
Top