Fear and Guilt

connermt · Mar 20, 2012

Both seem to be useful tools when it comes to, among other things, recruiting and maintaining christianity. Seems that when (many) church leaders use guilt (god died for YOUR sins) and fear (repent or you'll MISS heaven) relatively effectively, they are more successful.
Is it human nature to respond to fear and guilt, or is there something else going on here?
Would using love and acceptance yield more positive results?
Thoughts?

Engyo · Mar 20, 2012

There is no guilt as such in Buddhism, and nothing to fear either.

sojourner · Mar 20, 2012

connermt said:
Both seem to be useful tools when it comes to, among other things, recruiting and maintaining christianity. Seems that when (many) church leaders use guilt (god died for YOUR sins) and fear (repent or you'll MISS heaven) relatively effectively, they are more successful.
Is it human nature to respond to fear and guilt, or is there something else going on here?
Would using love and acceptance yield more positive results?
Thoughts?

Seems to me that it's the advertising ploys of "snob appeal" and "bandwagon" that draw most middlebrow Americans to pop-evangelicalism.

connermt · Mar 20, 2012

sojourner said:
Seems to me that it's the advertising ploys of "snob appeal" and "bandwagon" that draw most middlebrow Americans to pop-evangelicalism.

I have no personal experience with "pop-evangelism" past skimming TV channels. But what about mainstream evangelism?

ChristineES · Mar 20, 2012

What guilt? If I commit a sin, and I repent, then I know it is forgiven. If I still have guilt after that, it is my problem and not my religion's problem and not God's.

I didn't become a Christian for the reasons you mentioned. I became a Christian so I could serve God. I did not do it out of fear or guilt. That is just a misconception- although a few Christians may have become one for that reason. I mean is that so hard for you to believe? Why do people continue to believe this? And a good question is that there are other faiths outside of Abraham's faiths.

connermt · Mar 20, 2012

Engyo said:
There is no guilt as such in Buddhism, and nothing to fear either.

Do you see that as a detriment to Buddhism "recruiting", at least in the US? Meaning, do you think more would join if fear/guilt could be used (even if it's not part of the belief system)?

Sunstone · Mar 20, 2012

connermt said:
Both seem to be useful tools when it comes to, among other things, recruiting and maintaining christianity. Seems that when (many) church leaders use guilt (god died for YOUR sins) and fear (repent or you'll MISS heaven) relatively effectively, they are more successful.
Is it human nature to respond to fear and guilt, or is there something else going on here?
Would using love and acceptance yield more positive results?
Thoughts?

It depends on what motivates the individuals in your audience. Some people are much more motivated by fear than are other people. Again, some people are much more motivated by love than are other people. And so on. Christianity seems to employ a wide range of tools when converting people.

Engyo · Mar 20, 2012

connermt said:
Do you see that as a detriment to Buddhism "recruiting", at least in the US? Meaning, do you think more would join if fear/guilt could be used (even if it's not part of the belief system)?

'Recruiting' is not a goal in Buddhism either.

sojourner · Mar 20, 2012

connermt said:
I have no personal experience with "pop-evangelism" past skimming TV channels. But what about mainstream evangelism?

Much American evangelicalism is pop-evangelicalism.

ChristineES · Mar 20, 2012

You seem to operating under the idea that Christians are recruiting. That really isn't the goal of most Churches. Christian proselytize because they are concerned about people's eternal souls. I may not agree with their methods of doing that, but I can understand why they do it. I personally don't believe in proselytizing to someone when they don't want it, even Jesus didn't do that- people came to Him, not the other way around.

Sure, some Churches recruit members, but the majority of Churches don't do any such thing. And some Christians try and convert people that don't want to be converted, but that is a whole other debate.

Trey of Diamonds · Mar 20, 2012

Fear is an animal response built into our instincts. Guilt is a human emotion often used for manipulation and control of others. The two together have been population control tools used by human authoritative figures for all history.

connermt · Mar 20, 2012

Sunstone said:
It depends on what motivates the individuals in your audience. Some people are much more motivated by fear than are other people. Again, some people are much more motivated by love than are other people. And so on. Christianity seems to employ a wide range of tools when converting people.

More good points. When dealing with different people, you have to have more than one or two tools in your belt, so to speak, in order to reach a larger audience.
There's little doubt fear & guilt are effective of some (many?), but wouldn't love, peace and acceptance be a better set of tools?

connermt · Mar 20, 2012

Engyo said:
'Recruiting' is not a goal in Buddhism either.

I'm sorry - I'm totally exhausted and that was the best word I could think of. No offense intended.
But that bears another question: do Buddhist allow people to come to them, or are they more active in seeking out others to join Buddhism?

connermt · Mar 20, 2012

sojourner said:
Much American evangelicalism is pop-evangelicalism.

What about the section of America that is not pop?

Sunstone · Mar 20, 2012

connermt said:
There's little doubt fear & guilt are effective of some (many?), but wouldn't love, peace and acceptance be a better set of tools?

Better in what sense? As motivators? I think -- and I'm only guessing -- that fewer people are motivated by love, peace and acceptance, than are motivated by fear and guilt. If so, then fear and guilt are likely to connect with a wider audience than love, peace, and acceptance.

connermt · Mar 20, 2012

ChristineES said:
What guilt? If I commit a sin, and I repent, then I know it is forgiven. If I still have guilt after that, it is my problem and not my religion's problem and not God's.

I didn't become a Christian for the reasons you mentioned. I became a Christian so I could serve God. I did not do it out of fear or guilt. That is just a misconception- although a few Christians may have become one for that reason. I mean is that so hard for you to believe? Why do people continue to believe this? And a good question is that there are other faiths outside of Abraham's faiths.

Sorry Christines - I missed this response earlier.
The guilt I'm referring to is "god died for YOUR sins" type of teaching that many (all?) chirstian churches teach. It's been said jesus "paid the price for you", which instills a measure of guilt on your part (he did his part, now what are YOU going to do?)

Yes, it is hard for me to believe a person would come to a god they know little to nothing about, just to "serve" him.That makes no sense.
Beyond finding it hard to beleive, I don't believe it likely or even possible. That's not the typical human MO.
Sorry but I just don't believe it.

connermt · Mar 20, 2012

ChristineES said:
You seem to operating under the idea that Christians are recruiting. That really isn't the goal of most Churches. Christian proselytize because they are concerned about people's eternal souls. I may not agree with their methods of doing that, but I can understand why they do it. I personally don't believe in proselytizing to someone when they don't want it, even Jesus didn't do that- people came to Him, not the other way around.

Sure, some Churches recruit members, but the majority of Churches don't do any such thing. And some Christians try and convert people that don't want to be converted, but that is a whole other debate.

It's taught from the bible "go out and become fishers of men". That sounds like recruiting to me.

connermt · Mar 20, 2012

Trey of Diamonds said:
Fear is an animal response built into our instincts. Guilt is a human emotion often used for manipulation and control of others. The two together have been population control tools used by human authoritative figures for all history.

Agreed. Are they more or less effective when dealing with a deity such of the christian god IYO?

Engyo · Mar 20, 2012

connermt said:
I'm sorry - I'm totally exhausted and that was the best word I could think of. No offense intended.
But that bears another question: do Buddhist allow people to come to them, or are they more active in seeking out others to join Buddhism?

None taken. There is no problem with sharing the teachings; it is just usually done with those who come looking, rather than trying to sell people who aren't. These aren't rules or anything, just the way most Buddhists choose to operate.

Quiddity · Mar 20, 2012

Anger, fear, and guilt can a serve a purpose for good.

Unless of course you happen to be perfect and all knowing.

Fear and Guilt

Well-Known Member

Prince of Dorkness!

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006

Well-Known Member

Tiggerism

Well-Known Member

De Diablo Del Fora

Prince of Dorkness!

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006

Tiggerism

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

De Diablo Del Fora

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Prince of Dorkness!

UndertheInfluenceofGiants