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What do you think of this view on men?

apophenia

Well-Known Member
I worked in a sex shop at night while I was studying in 1979. One night there was a women's march, the first 'Reclaim the Night' march I think, through the main street of Melbourne where I was working. The shop had only one entrance/exit, the front door. The rear door was metal and padlocked. One of the women decided to set fire to the shop. There was lots of very flammable material near the entrance, and if I had not been very efficient when I realised there was a fire it could have got very nasty.

After putting out the fire I went out into the street and was immediately confronted by some reporters from a radio station (3CR - community radio). They pushed a microphone in my face and started asking questions about whether the material in the shop was degrading to women.

I fielded their questions without being the Male Chauvinist Pig stereotype they were hoping for, and then calmly pointed out that one of the women had just set the shop on fire with me inside. I also pointed out that I was a student with a pregnant partner at home and probably didn't deserve to be burned alive.

The interviewers had an agenda, and I was not what they were looking for, and they had no interest in hearing about what had just happened (as newsworthy as it was !). They packed up and left.

That was illuminating.

The general level of debate in the 70s and 80s was appalling in that regard. Anti-male sexism was rampant and vitriolic. And what word could possibly be more intrinsically sexist than 'feminist' ? Merely asking a question like that was to be labelled a chauvinist knuckle dragger.

You had to be there. History has not recorded it accurately at all. Every day there were newspaper and magazine (and TV and radio) articles about how ignorant and violent men are, and how nurturing, co-operative and in every way more moral women are.

Not once did I ever hear any objective critique of women, the only fault any woman had was to allow herself to be controlled by males. The gender bias of political correctness (a brand new invention at the time) was not just unbalanced, it was extreme and absolute.

Nevertheless, I still feel the impulse to chivalry, women and children first, and can't say definitively if that is conditioned or innate.

What I can say for sure is that the feminist movement went way beyond equal pay for equal work, (which I totally endorse), and for decades was precisely a devaluing of men in the manner referred to in the video. Not just devaluing, but extreme in its gender based value judgements in both directions - the 'knuckle dragging abuser' and the quasi-divine Earth Mother.
 

work in progress

Well-Known Member
now don't get me wrong I do think some of her reasoning is a little bumpy and some things are just assumed in this view which I would like unpacked, but as an idea do you think it would fly?
Can I have the 16 minutes back that I wasted watching this stupid chick?

Seriously, she tries to talk like some intellectual, and generalizes about "feminism" but never once addresses the matter of what sort of feminism or feminists she is attacking and blaming for all of the (including imaginary) problems between men and women today. Or maybe if I was 120 lbs. or about the same size as the average woman I would take her objections seriously! As it stands now....and will until natural selection alters our physical makeup...we are still what zoologists call a sexually dimorphic species - where one gender is significantly larger than the other. As long as that disparity in size ratio exists, society has to be more concerned about the safety issues of women, than with men. It's not that I am not going to deal with some guy who gets beat up by his wife, but the majority of domestic violence cases in real life start with a pattern of threats and intimidation from the man, that can escalate to aggravated assault or worse. In a physical conflict, the woman is going to be more at risk of serious injury, so if some 200 lb guy is going to blame his wife for starting the fight after the cops arrive, should we be surprised if they assign him the blame for using unreasonable force? It's no different than getting in a fight with a guy half your size and beating him unconscious....the cops are going to rule that you took it further than necessary.

The same problems are at work in issues of public safety. Is it fair that women are the most at risk of robbery or sexual assault, if they do not own cars and have to walk or take public transit to or from work late at night? No, and that might clue in some of the clueless regarding why working towards a more equal society takes more than removing the negative laws and other obstructions placed in the way. There also has to be a positive process of working to make the streets safer and lower the likelihood that women are going to be endangered by strangers or the men they know and may be living with. Many women who have their own transportation, and live in safe suburban neighbourhoods, are just as clued out about the outside dangers facing many women as a lot of men are.

Anyway, trying to get back on track, her thought problem of the Lifeboat example is extremely bizarre and likely complete ********. When it comes to sacrificing their lives, I would guess that most guys only do this in the movies...it probably doesn't happen much in real life. The most common real examples of self-sacrifice are mothers trying to save their children, but that doesn't fit the propaganda motif presented in this little screed.

I noticed the youtube video was posted on a page that has a collection of videos of other stupid girls who have come of age post-feminism, and have no idea or interest in history, or any gratitude for what previous generations of women had to fight for to make equal rights for women possible today! And this is coming at a time when a collection of "traditionalists" are attacking women's rights on all fronts, and trying to return society back to the patriarchy that started falling when I was young. Right now, Rick Santorum is blaming women in the workforce for weakening "family values" and the fake "pro life" movement is feeling its oats, and moving past banning abortion, to proposing banning birth control entirely.

I think these issues cut across gender lines, as can be seen in a lot of the videos that women-who-should-know-better are posting on Youtube, and what I'd like to think is the majority of men, who are progressive enough to realize that making society more gender-equal, instead of emphasizing gender differences, has made life better than what is was in those imaginary good old days. I just want the dreamers of patriarchy to think about what they are advocating here before the next time they go on a tirade about what Muslims are doing in Afghanistan or Saudi Arabia! OpEdNews - Article: Imposing "sharia," Roman Catholic style
 

work in progress

Well-Known Member
I worked in a sex shop at night while I was studying in 1979. One night there was a women's march, the first 'Reclaim the Night' march I think, through the main street of Melbourne where I was working. The shop had only one entrance/exit, the front door. The rear door was metal and padlocked. One of the women decided to set fire to the shop. There was lots of very flammable material near the entrance, and if I had not been very efficient when I realised there was a fire it could have got very nasty.

After putting out the fire I went out into the street and was immediately confronted by some reporters from a radio station (3CR - community radio). They pushed a microphone in my face and started asking questions about whether the material in the shop was degrading to women.

I fielded their questions without being the Male Chauvinist Pig stereotype they were hoping for, and then calmly pointed out that one of the women had just set the shop on fire with me inside. I also pointed out that I was a student with a pregnant partner at home and probably didn't deserve to be burned alive.

The interviewers had an agenda, and I was not what they were looking for, and they had no interest in hearing about what had just happened (as newsworthy as it was !). They packed up and left.
Well, we are going to stand on opposite sides of this issue! First, I have to say that where I live (Canada) we had many Take Back The Night marches, which mostly dealt with women's public safety issues, not porn. Why was that march called "Reclaim The Night" if the emphasis was on closing down porn shops?


And 2nd, if you were aware then, or are aware now, that the issue of pornography divided feminist leaders and writers then and still does today! A lot of feminists back then, were of the thinking of Germaine Greer...who would be characterized as about as pro-pornography as you can get. But they were not likely the feminists who protested porn shops...so you can't generalize what all feminists believe from the particular group of activists who showed up one day outside your shop.

That said, I have to say that I was a lot more pro-porn back then than I am now. Part of the reason why is because skin mags and 8mm movies were just starting to appear at the time I was coming of age. But, I've looked into some anti-porn articles written regarding some of the internet porn that is being disseminated today, and viewed by boys as young a preteen age. I haven't been viewing porn in my later years, and certainly would never pay for it online, and according to the research on porn, the pay subscription services that are trying to sell pornography today have to be way more extreme in all respects than they were back in the 70's. It has to be extremely violent, extremely bizarre and degrading to attract payed subscribers apparently, with all the free porn floating around on the internet. So, women today, and many psychologists for what it's worth, are starting to get worried about what young men are taking away from the porn they may be watching today.

For what it's worth, I started getting turned off by porn by the late 80's, when it started emphasizing ridiculous close up shots and anal sex. But from what the educators are saying today from their polling data of teenagers, anal sex has become so superfluous today that teenage boys expect to do it with girls....it's not even considered optional, and according to an author of a popular book on teenage girls today titled something like "What's The Matter With Girls" ....I hope that's right, I really don't feel like looking it up right now, the primary reason why an unusually large number of teenage girls today are identifying themselves as bisexual is because they are put off by the bizarre sex that boys want them to do today. Anyway, my takeaway is that the worst internet porn, like simulated rape scenes, and violence, should be put in the same category as child pornography. I can't think of any redeeming social value this sort of material would have, and a lot of reasons why it might push some impressionable young men to do things they wouldn't do otherwise, because it is given some form of validation by being on video.
That was illuminating.

The general level of debate in the 70s and 80s was appalling in that regard. Anti-male sexism was rampant and vitriolic. And what word could possibly be more intrinsically sexist than 'feminist' ? Merely asking a question like that was to be labelled a chauvinist knuckle dragger.

You had to be there. History has not recorded it accurately at all. Every day there were newspaper and magazine (and TV and radio) articles about how ignorant and violent men are, and how nurturing, co-operative and in every way more moral women are.
I've known few women who would fit this mold of being angry anti-male feminists. Usually this is a tag given to lesbians...that they hate men, but whatever, did you consider that some women who may seem anti-male, may have been the victims of rape, physical abuse etc. during some point of their lives and have a bad attitude about men? And I'd be willing to bet that there are a LOT more misogynist or anti-female men out there than the female equivalent, because the process to women's equality has taken away or threatened the power that some men had, or may have thought their father's had.
Not once did I ever hear any objective critique of women, the only fault any woman had was to allow herself to be controlled by males. The gender bias of political correctness (a brand new invention at the time) was not just unbalanced, it was extreme and absolute.

Nevertheless, I still feel the impulse to chivalry, women and children first, and can't say definitively if that is conditioned or innate.

What I can say for sure is that the feminist movement went way beyond equal pay for equal work, (which I totally endorse), and for decades was precisely a devaluing of men in the manner referred to in the video. Not just devaluing, but extreme in its gender based value judgements in both directions - the 'knuckle dragging abuser' and the quasi-divine Earth Mother.
Pop quiz: did the U.S. Civil Rights Movement go beyond equality also? Or the movements for aboriginal equality? How do you address injustices of the past without someone ******** that they think the new equal threatens them?

And in a previous comment, I mentioned that there are a lot of other issues besides money that need to be addressed. Domestic violence is at the top of the list, and so should be public safety, which is more of a problem for women in lower economic classes. I still say that progress depends on working towards equality, and I suspect reactionaries at work in the reverse discrimination examples I get, whether the subject is race or gender.
 

apophenia

Well-Known Member
Well, we are going to stand on opposite sides of this issue! First, I have to say that where I live (Canada) we had many Take Back The Night marches, which mostly dealt with women's public safety issues, not porn. Why was that march called "Reclaim The Night" if the emphasis was on closing down porn shops?

The emphasis was not on closing down porn shops. I did not suggest that. It was, as I said, a 'Reclaim the Night' march. It just happened to pass the shop I was working in.

And 2nd, if you were aware then, or are aware now, that the issue of pornography divided feminist leaders and writers then and still does today! A lot of feminists back then, were of the thinking of Germaine Greer...who would be characterized as about as pro-pornography as you can get. But they were not likely the feminists who protested porn shops...so you can't generalize what all feminists believe from the particular group of activists who showed up one day outside your shop.

The group did not show up specifically at the shop I worked in, they were just marching past it.

You have said nothing about the violence of the act nor of the significance of the media choosing to ignore it. That was the main point of my post !
The salient point of my story was that none of the women in the march, nor the media, showed any concern that I could have been burned alive in the shop. Once it was established that I was not an anti-feminist stereotype who could be lambasted on the radio, they simply left.

This story is about the mood of the time, and the extreme positions which were taken by many feminists and their supporters in the media.


That said, I have to say that I was a lot more pro-porn back then than I am now. But from what the educators are saying today from their polling data of teenagers, anal sex has become so superfluous today that teenage boys expect to do it with girls....

This is not about the pros and cons of porn ! That is irrelevant to my post.

And in a previous comment, I mentioned that there are a lot of other issues besides money that need to be addressed. Domestic violence is at the top of the list, and so should be public safety, which is more of a problem for women in lower economic classes.

I could write a book on that subject. In 1999 I was in an Anglicare social welfare agency in Tasmania, seeking work. On the walls were maybe a dozen posters about domestic violence. None of them mentioned abusive women. I had experienced a relationship with a woman prone to violent abusive behaviour, and was all too well aware that such women are never mentioned in relation to domestic violence.I have also known several other men who were in similar positions.

I encountered the woman who ran the support program for women while I was there, and engaged her in a conversation about that issue. Her response was unexpected and in a way shocking. She acknowledged the validity of my position, and went considerably further. She said that in her estimation around 60% of the cases she dealt with involved abusive women, either physically violent or psychologically abusive.
She expressed genuine sympathy for what I had been through, and understood perfectly well that the issue was taboo. She stated that if she acknowledged my point publically she would lose her job, and be of no further use to her clients, and that in many cases she was trying to use her position to support the abused males.

In Australia, and probably in America, the police do not take reports of abusive females seriously. Men who report such behaviour are ridiculed and considered liars without any investigation of the facts. On the other hand, if any woman contacts the police and claims a man is violent, or even just that she feels threatened, the man will be treated like a criminal and receive abusive treatment from the police.

The media don't want to touch this.

I realise that if a man is violent to a woman, his superior physical strength means that she is likely to be badly hurt. I also realise that the police have to deal with some very disturbing stuff, and simply don't want to take the chance of allowing a woman to be hurt. That is understandable.

Nevertheless, feminism, despite its positive value, is also responsible for enduring negative stereotyping of men, and whitewashing the fact of abusive women.
 

Yerda

Veteran Member
Nevertheless, feminism, despite its positive value, is also responsible for enduring negative stereotyping of men, and whitewashing the fact of abusive women.
Who was responsible for this whitewashing for the part of social history where feminism was limited or non-existent?
 

apophenia

Well-Known Member
Who was responsible for this whitewashing for the part of social history where feminism was limited or non-existent?

I am talking about the world I live in, my own real experiences and those of people I know first-hand.

The points I raised on this issue are not answered, and apart from the female social worker I mentioned in my previous post, are almost never answered honestly in public discussion.

Generally if these issues are raised, they are dealt with by evasion or ad hominems.

I am a humanist. I know perfectly well that in many cultures women are treated terribly. I grew up in a society and time (Australia, born 1955) where women were treated unjustly, and have supported the change in attitude which I accept is required.

Still, there is a taboo about honest discussion of abusive women, and of the discussion about abused men. You respond to my report of being personally abused in a way aimed at discrediting my position. If I was a woman recounting abuse you would show sympathy and supportiveness, but if a man reports abuse you attempt to discredit. You thus make my point.

This thread is about the view of men fostered by feminism, and I have opened up the discussion of the taboo of discussing abusive women, and how current political correctness empowers and enables them to be abusive.

Do you deny that abusive women exist ?

Is it possible to criticise any aspect of feminism without being condemned by the politically correct self-righteous ?

Your response, instead of considering the points I made, is a red herring designed to draw attention away from the issues raised. I consider that dishonest and not worthy of respect, since it is effectively an insult to me and a thinly veiled suggestion that my testimony is not credible. I am well aquainted with such tactics, they are precisely what I am referring to, and all men who have been subject to abusive women are unfortunately very familiar with your style of subtle denigration.
 

apophenia

Well-Known Member
Who was responsible for this whitewashing for the part of social history where feminism was limited or non-existent?

And to answer your question explicitly, I would suggest that there was no such whitewashing in times or places where women were (and are) overtly oppressed.

Why would there be if men were allowed to be dominant ? In such times and places, abusive women were unlikely to be a social issue, since women were kept in subordination by men.

I am talking about a social development in my time and place, so perhaps you could keep your replies relevant to the topic, which is explicitly about post-feminist western culture if I understand the gist of the OP.
 

Yerda

Veteran Member
apophenia said:
Your response, instead of considering the points I made, is a red herring designed to draw attention away from the issues raised. I consider that dishonest and not worthy of respect, since it is effectively an insult to me and a thinly veiled suggestion that my testimony is not credible. I am well aquainted with such tactics, they are precisely what I am referring to, and all men who have been subject to abusive women are unfortunately very familiar with your style of subtle denigration.
Well, I'll step off your toes and try again.

Before feminism was politically tenable, who or what was airbrushing domestic violence against men from the picture?

You seem to be quite convinced that feminism (or political correctness in deference to feminism) is responsible for the whitewashing of abusive women. Perhaps you know more about the subject than I do. I mean, it wouldn't be hard. I'm ignorant. But I do get the feeling that women were domestically abusing men before feminism became a big deal. Therefore it would seem that some other social factor, group, or movement was responsible. If then, why not now?

You follow me?

On a personal note, I didn't mean to anger you. I haven't been the victim of domestic abuse before, so maybe I can't empathise, but I can try. It takes courage for anyone to step forward, man or woman. I am glad that there are those willing to do so. Not enough support is available for either sex, especially so for men, and that is tragic.
 

apophenia

Well-Known Member
Well, I'll step off your toes and try again.

Before feminism was politically tenable, who or what was airbrushing domestic violence against men from the picture?

...
You follow me?

I think I answered you very clearly ...

And to answer your question explicitly, I would suggest that there was no such whitewashing in times or places where women were (and are) overtly oppressed.

Why would there be if men were allowed to be dominant ? In such times and places, abusive women were unlikely to be a social issue, since women were kept in subordination by men.

Perhaps you were composing your last post while I posted that and failed to see it.
 

LegionOnomaMoi

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I am reminded of Elizabeth Gould Davis' The First Sex and Valerie Solanas' S.C.U.M. Manifesto. It's not just what Christina Hoff Sommers called "gender feminism" (as opposed to "equity feminism"), it's some blending of history, sociology, and myth into an incoherent narrative with little to no basis in empiricism.
 

apophenia

Well-Known Member
Actually its (the video) entire basis is in empiricism, if by that you mean something like -
"Empiricism is a theory of knowledge that asserts that knowledge comes only or primarily via sensory experience." Wikipedia

Calling it "some blending of history, sociology, and myth ... an incoherent narrative" is your subjective value judgement. I know what she meant. Empirically.

I have observed and continue to observe the 'women and children first' phenomenon, and I can't see how you have missed it. It is said, demanded and acted on continually. How is that not empirical ?
 

LegionOnomaMoi

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I have observed and continue to observe the 'women and children first' phenomenon, and I can't see how you have missed it. It is said, demanded and acted on continually. How is that not empirical ?
Because your observations are limited to a particular time, place, and culture. The clip extends this to human cultures in general. Exposure (leaving infants a family couldn't afford or didn't want out in the middle of nowhere to die), the rampant sexism across cultures and history, from the Greeks to the much of historical Chinese culture, and actually most of human history, are all counter-examples of your observations. "Women and children first" hardly fits in with the paterfamilias of Roman society or most of the history of civilization.
 

apophenia

Well-Known Member
Actually its (the video) entire basis is in empiricism, if by that you mean something like -
"Empiricism is a theory of knowledge that asserts that knowledge comes only or primarily via sensory experience." Wikipedia

Calling it "some blending of history, sociology, and myth ... an incoherent narrative" is your subjective value judgement. I know what she meant. Empirically.

I have observed and continue to observe the 'women and children first' phenomenon, and I can't see how you have missed it. It is said, demanded and acted on continually. How is that not empirical ?
Because your observations are limited to a particular time, place, and culture. The clip extends this to human cultures in general. Exposure (leaving infants a family couldn't afford or didn't want out in the middle of nowhere to die), the rampant sexism across cultures and history, from the Greeks to the much of historical Chinese culture, and actually most of human history, are all counter-examples of your observations. "Women and children first" hardly fits in with the paterfamilias of Roman society or most of the history of civilization.

I may be wrong, but I assumed the woman in the video was referring to the culture she experiences,contemporary western culture.

What is your response to the video if my impression is correct and she is referring to her own culture in present time ?
 

LegionOnomaMoi

Veteran Member
Premium Member
What is your response to the video if my impression is correct and she is referring to her own culture in present time ?
Well before getting there, let's address your impression and mine. She states "male disposability has been around since the dawn of time...this is the way it has always been."
"Humans have always had a dynamic of women and children first." [emphasis mine]

I could go on, but I think that covers it well enough. She isn't talking about contemporary western culture.
 

apophenia

Well-Known Member
Well before getting there, let's address your impression and mine. She states "male disposability has been around since the dawn of time...this is the way it has always been."
"Humans have always had a dynamic of women and children first." [emphasis mine]

I could go on, but I think that covers it well enough. She isn't talking about contemporary western culture.

Yep. You're right. My mistake.
 

tarasan

Well-Known Member
Can I have the 16 minutes back that I wasted watching this stupid chick?

Seriously, she tries to talk like some intellectual, and generalizes about "feminism" but never once addresses the matter of what sort of feminism or feminists she is attacking and blaming for all of the (including imaginary) problems between men and women today. Or maybe if I was 120 lbs. or about the same size as the average woman I would take her objections seriously! As it stands now....and will until natural selection alters our physical makeup...we are still what zoologists call a sexually dimorphic species - where one gender is significantly larger than the other. As long as that disparity in size ratio exists, society has to be more concerned about the safety issues of women, than with men. It's not that I am not going to deal with some guy who gets beat up by his wife, but the majority of domestic violence cases in real life start with a pattern of threats and intimidation from the man, that can escalate to aggravated assault or worse. In a physical conflict, the woman is going to be more at risk of serious injury, so if some 200 lb guy is going to blame his wife for starting the fight after the cops arrive, should we be surprised if they assign him the blame for using unreasonable force? It's no different than getting in a fight with a guy half your size and beating him unconscious....the cops are going to rule that you took it further than necessary.

The same problems are at work in issues of public safety. Is it fair that women are the most at risk of robbery or sexual assault, if they do not own cars and have to walk or take public transit to or from work late at night? No, and that might clue in some of the clueless regarding why working towards a more equal society takes more than removing the negative laws and other obstructions placed in the way. There also has to be a positive process of working to make the streets safer and lower the likelihood that women are going to be endangered by strangers or the men they know and may be living with. Many women who have their own transportation, and live in safe suburban neighbourhoods, are just as clued out about the outside dangers facing many women as a lot of men are.

Anyway, trying to get back on track, her thought problem of the Lifeboat example is extremely bizarre and likely complete ********. When it comes to sacrificing their lives, I would guess that most guys only do this in the movies...it probably doesn't happen much in real life. The most common real examples of self-sacrifice are mothers trying to save their children, but that doesn't fit the propaganda motif presented in this little screed.

I noticed the youtube video was posted on a page that has a collection of videos of other stupid girls who have come of age post-feminism, and have no idea or interest in history, or any gratitude for what previous generations of women had to fight for to make equal rights for women possible today! And this is coming at a time when a collection of "traditionalists" are attacking women's rights on all fronts, and trying to return society back to the patriarchy that started falling when I was young. Right now, Rick Santorum is blaming women in the workforce for weakening "family values" and the fake "pro life" movement is feeling its oats, and moving past banning abortion, to proposing banning birth control entirely.

I think these issues cut across gender lines, as can be seen in a lot of the videos that women-who-should-know-better are posting on Youtube, and what I'd like to think is the majority of men, who are progressive enough to realize that making society more gender-equal, instead of emphasizing gender differences, has made life better than what is was in those imaginary good old days. I just want the dreamers of patriarchy to think about what they are advocating here before the next time they go on a tirade about what Muslims are doing in Afghanistan or Saudi Arabia! OpEdNews - Article: Imposing "sharia," Roman Catholic style

my advise to you would be to look at the rest of her videos, he name is girlwriteswhat on youtube. lets hear your thoughts on the rest of them :D
 

Mathematician

Reason, and reason again
I no longer identify as a feminist; I realize semantically that might drive a wedge between some people, but I've gotten tired of being scapegoated for my own gender. I support equal rights, but I just don't have any desire to carry the baggage of third-wave feminism.
 

waitasec

Veteran Member
i disagree with her view on feminism as a means to perpetuate the disposability of men
however, her POV of societies expectation of men to put women and children 1st i agree with.

having said that, i think that this expectation of men is diminishing because of feminism.
 

work in progress

Well-Known Member
The emphasis was not on closing down porn shops. I did not suggest that. It was, as I said, a 'Reclaim the Night' march. It just happened to pass the shop I was working in.



The group did not show up specifically at the shop I worked in, they were just marching past it.

You have said nothing about the violence of the act nor of the significance of the media choosing to ignore it. That was the main point of my post !
The salient point of my story was that none of the women in the march, nor the media, showed any concern that I could have been burned alive in the shop. Once it was established that I was not an anti-feminist stereotype who could be lambasted on the radio, they simply left.

This story is about the mood of the time, and the extreme positions which were taken by many feminists and their supporters in the media.
And it is one, solitary, specific example, as others have pointed out since my absence. I can concur that setting your shop on fire was terrible, but you never explained how this specific example in your country applied to a general narrative about feminism, or even the take-back-the-night marches....which for that matter, I don't recall reading anything like this in my country when these marches were common.

You also didn't mention the problems of violence....especially the threats and attacks on women who had to be out in public spaces, especially during late hours. You left the impression that because one bad thing happened to you long, long ago, you have no sympathy or appreciation for the hazards, and limits on personal freedom of movement, that many women(especially low income working women) face just because they have to be out in a public space.

I could write a book on that subject. In 1999 I was in an Anglicare social welfare agency in Tasmania, seeking work. On the walls were maybe a dozen posters about domestic violence. None of them mentioned abusive women. I had experienced a relationship with a woman prone to violent abusive behaviour, and was all too well aware that such women are never mentioned in relation to domestic violence.I have also known several other men who were in similar positions.
I notice that men in misogynistic cultures complain about women being nasty, treacherous, deceitful etc.. It's as if they expect that women who have grown up and come of age in a culture that gives them half the value of men, should be happy, well-adjusted and have a positive attitude about men.

As for your African example -- does that even compare with what African women and girls are going through in the Congo or many other war zones? A matter of scale applies where we're talking about male violence vs. female violence. And for what it's worth, there is one violent thing that men do that no cultural anthropologist has observed from women: using rape and aggravated sexual violence as a tool of revenge and intimidation. There have been guerilla movements where women have picked up guns and taken an active role: the long-running war in Eritrea would be an example; also the so-called Maoist guerillas in central India, who are fighting off rapacious developers from exploiting what's left of India's natural forests...and yet there is not one reported incidence of a gang of female combatants using rape in places they have occupied. That tells us a little about basic differences between male and female, and what the predilection towards violence and sadism is.

In Australia, and probably in America, the police do not take reports of abusive females seriously. Men who report such behaviour are ridiculed and considered liars without any investigation of the facts. On the other hand, if any woman contacts the police and claims a man is violent, or even just that she feels threatened, the man will be treated like a criminal and receive abusive treatment from the police.

I realise that if a man is violent to a woman, his superior physical strength means that she is likely to be badly hurt. I also realise that the police have to deal with some very disturbing stuff, and simply don't want to take the chance of allowing a woman to be hurt. That is understandable.
Well that's a relief! Because I don't see many MRA's acknowledge these facts in the first place. This is a point I first came across a few years ago by some so called men's rights activists. They claimed statistical evidence for charges that women cause almost as much domestic violence as men. But, garbage-in, garbage-out as they say! A closer look at their statistics revealed that they did not place any weight on the scale of violence in the police reports. A woman could be mad at her husband and slap him, and the husband could have responded by knocking her out cold. The lame, ticking the boxes method of analysis of the mens rights group would call that a 50-50.

It's no surprise that most civilized nations, including where I live, have changed their approach regarding domestic violence over the last 40 years. At one time...and this is what conservatives are trying to bring back...the police would make a judgment of whether the wife "deserved it," and refrain from pressing charges unless he left her with serious, visible bodily injuries. And because largely male police forces all over the developed world appeared to be siding with the husband the majority of times, and leading to negligent examples where women died after police were called and refused to press charges...the legislation had to be drafted along the lines of the police assuming that the husband was the aggressor, even if he clearly was not! And for what it's worth, even with the opening premise based on the assumption that the man is the likely hostile aggressor, from my own personal example, police who are called out to deal with such situations can make a proper assessment very quickly when they arrive on the scene. I had a live-in girlfriend many years ago before I got married...who had mental problems that I was not previously aware of, and called the police when we were having a heated argument. Even though the law had already been drafted to put the scrutiny on me, the three police officers (including a female) quickly assessed that there was no evidence that I had committed an assault, and that she was incoherent, and started asking questions like they suspected she was using drugs or had some psychological issues. So, I have a hard time taking the hard luck story from men who claim to have been persecuted by a system that favours the women in such situations. Even today, with the theoretical advantage for protecting women, there are still many times more women than men who end up in hospital because of domestic violence or even murdered in the worst examples.

But, my biggest objection to "Men's Rights" complaints about feminism all over the internet....and especially on Youtube, is that it is an agglomeration of tactics and skewed evidence designed to attack the rights and freedoms that women won after a long, difficult struggle.


Nevertheless, feminism, despite its positive value, is also responsible for enduring negative stereotyping of men, and whitewashing the fact of abusive women.
Are racial civil rights movements also guilty of stereotyping whites? If so, I'll get over it, and I would appreciate if others would too, because the harms caused by discrimination have to be placed in the context of which groups in a society have power, and which ones are disadvantaged.
 
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