Christian Damnation.

I have been told before that the only sin worthy of Damnation in Christianity is the absence of one's faith in the Christian God. But, being raised in a Baptist family, others have also told me that any sin commited and not repented for before death will result in Damnation. I have always been under the impression that, for Christians, as long as one is rightous in their ways and has full faith in God, then any sin is forgiven... even the likes of murder, gluttony, cursing God's name, ect...

So... what is everyone's opinion on this matter?

Cheers.

Can you please define what you mean by "damnation?" Thanks.

nutshell said:

Can you please define what you mean by "damnation?" Thanks.

Click to expand...

Isn't Damnation being [size=-1]condemned to eternal punishment in Hell? That is what I mean by it.

Or... am I confusing it with another word?

[/size]

Not every Christian believes that faith is all that is needed to be saved.

jonny said:

Not every Christian believes that faith is all that is needed to be saved.

Click to expand...

Could you elaborate please?

I am very curious actually. I am very interested in this subject, and not knowing that much about Christian law, I would love to hear whatever anyone has in-depth .

Cheers.

DoshKel said:

Could you elaborate please?

I am very curious actually. I am very interested in this subject, and not knowing that much about Christian law, I would love to hear whatever anyone has in-depth .

Cheers.

Click to expand...

Faith in Christ is very important, but there also things like baptism, repentance, covenants, etc. that are important. I don't believe that most people are saved until they are standing in front of Christ and have proven themselves worthy throughout their entire life to dwell in the presence of God for eternity.

jonny said:

Faith in Christ is very important, but there also things like baptism, repentance, covenants, etc. that are important. I don't believe that most people are saved until they are standing in front of Christ and have proven themselves worthy throughout their entire life to dwell in the presence of God for eternity.

Click to expand...

I see. So, in your opinion, is it required for all people wishing to be saved to have a near perfect lifestyle? Do they have to perform certain tasks (like baptism), and if they do not, they will be promised a place in Hell?

Cheers.

DoshKel said:

I see. So, in your opinion, is it required for all people wishing to be saved to have a near perfect lifestyle? Do they have to perform certain tasks (like baptism), and if they do not, they will be promised a place in Hell?

Cheers.

Click to expand...

Mormons don't really believe in an eternal hell, so what you stated is overly simplistic.

Let me think,
Its been a while since I brushed up on my Christianity,
Ok Its denying Jesus as saviour I am sure, simply because no one gets to the God unless it is through him,
And people who lead Christians away from Christianity I think theres something about them coming to a horrible end too. Rocks and oceans if I remember rightly

Dark_Waltz said:

Ok Its denying Jesus as saviour I am sure, simply because no one gets to the God unless it is through him,

Click to expand...

Not all Christian denominations teach this.... at least not the oldest one.

And people who lead Christians away from Christianity I think theres something about them coming to a horrible end too. Rocks and oceans if I remember rightly

Click to expand...

Hmmm... maybe... but I don't ever like to "guess" at the level of God's Divine Mercy.

Immaculata pray for us,
Scott

DoshKel said:

I see. So, in your opinion, is it required for all people wishing to be saved to have a near perfect lifestyle? Do they have to perform certain tasks (like baptism), and if they do not, they will be promised a place in Hell?

Click to expand...

I think you're using the words "damnation" and "salvation" to describe states at the opposite ends of the spectrum. I know that many Christians do believe that these two states are the only two that exist. Personally, I see damnation as something reserved for a relative few. I see the vast majority of human beings ultimately receiving a degree of salvation, that being determined by their worthiness, i.e. by the way they lived their lives and by their obedience to God's commandments. I believe that "salvation," when used in this way, will be granted to almost everyone who has ever lived, regardless of their religion. In other words, many will be saved from an eternity in hell, but will not receive all of the blessings they might have done had they been faithful to God's commandments. At the highest end of the spectrum, I see exaltation or eternal life in God's presence.

Personally, I see damnation as something reserved for a relative few.

Click to expand...

Matt 7:13-14 Enter ye in at the strait gate; for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat; Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

DoshKel said:

I have been told before that the only sin worthy of Damnation in Christianity is the absence of one's faith in the Christian God. But, being raised in a Baptist family, others have also told me that any sin commited and not repented for before death will result in Damnation. I have always been under the impression that, for Christians, as long as one is rightous in their ways and has full faith in God, then any sin is forgiven... even the likes of murder, gluttony, cursing God's name, ect...

So... what is everyone's opinion on this matter?

Cheers.

Click to expand...

A BAPTIST told you that?? Must have been free-will baptist, lol. Most baptists, at least southern, and independent, believe that the moment you trust Christ as your saviour, trusting that God is satisfied with the payment for your sins that Christ accomplished on the cross, you are saved, forever saved. That you are a new creation, indwelt and sealed by the Spirit, kept by God, adopted as his child, clothed in Christ's righteousness, he will in no wise cast you out, he will never leave nor forsake you, no creature from the highest heaven to the lowest hell, including you, for you are not greater than God, can pluck you out or separate you from his Love, though you may grieve him, lose fellowship with him, but never relationship, and he will correct his own, but in no way can you ever go back into condemnation.

John 5:24 Verily, verily I say unto you, he that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me HAS everlasting life, and SHALL NOT COME into condemnation, but IS passed from death to life.

A christian will suffer loss of reward, loss of fellowship, joy, blessings, etc. and suffer the natural consequences of their sins here, like if you smoke too much you may get lung cancer, etc. But is safe and secure, bought with the blood of Jesus. Its all about the blood, and its a free gift, not of works lest ANY man should boast. Totaly undeserved, totaly free, totaly forever from the moment you first believe, and that is the gospel truth, the truth that sets folks free, the higher law of love that motivates us to do good works, not to earn or keep salvation, but because we have been granted it as a free gift to us undeserving sinners. Narrow is the way, and few there be that find it, and I think that is because of PRIDE, they want to do something themselves to add to the cross, they are self-righteous and if they examine themselves, self-righteous hypocrites. Romans 4 says that he that tries to work for it, it is not counted free, but debt, and you know, God will not be a debtor to anyone. You say, well I was good, and I did this and that, and he says nope, its by the blood of Jesus and that alone, you try to add to it, and you actually lessen it. That is the gospel truth, rejoice in it, rest in it, and praise God for it.

Sincerely,

Joeboonda

joeboonda said:

A BAPTIST told you that?? Must have been free-will baptist, lol. Most baptists, at least southern, and independent, believe that the moment you trust Christ as your saviour, trusting that God is satisfied with the payment for your sins that Christ accomplished on the cross, you are saved, forever saved. That you are a new creation, indwelt and sealed by the Spirit, kept by God, adopted as his child, clothed in Christ's righteousness, he will in no wise cast you out, he will never leave nor forsake you, no creature from the highest heaven to the lowest hell, including you, for you are not greater than God, can pluck you out or separate you from his Love, though you may grieve him, lose fellowship with him, but never relationship, and he will correct his own, but in no way can you ever go back into condemnation.

John 5:24 Verily, verily I say unto you, he that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me HAS everlasting life, and SHALL NOT COME into condemnation, but IS passed from death to life.

A christian will suffer loss of reward, loss of fellowship, joy, blessings, etc. and suffer the natural consequences of their sins here, like if you smoke too much you may get lung cancer, etc. But is safe and secure, bought with the blood of Jesus. Its all about the blood, and its a free gift, not of works lest ANY man should boast. Totaly undeserved, totaly free, totaly forever from the moment you first believe, and that is the gospel truth, the truth that sets folks free, the higher law of love that motivates us to do good works, not to earn or keep salvation, but because we have been granted it as a free gift to us undeserving sinners. Narrow is the way, and few there be that find it, and I think that is because of PRIDE, they want to do something themselves to add to the cross, they are self-righteous and if they examine themselves, self-righteous hypocrites. Romans 4 says that he that tries to work for it, it is not counted free, but debt, and you know, God will not be a debtor to anyone. You say, well I was good, and I did this and that, and he says nope, its by the blood of Jesus and that alone, you try to add to it, and you actually lessen it. That is the gospel truth, rejoice in it, rest in it, and praise God for it.

Sincerely,

Joeboonda

Click to expand...

I agree with you Joeboonda, in the end, it is about a gift from a loving Savior. I do want to ask you, however, how you reconcile James 2:17 "Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone," and 2:20 "But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?" and 2:26 "For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Good question, James says, YOU SAY you have faith... What it means, is, that if a person is saved, good works should follow. The good works do not actually save you, but they are evidence that you are saved. If one SAYS they believe in Christ, then we should see some results in their lives, however slow they may come. In Ephesians 2:8-10, it says we are saved by grace through faith and not of works lest any man should boast, and goes on to say we are saved UNTO good works. So the saved person will, because the Spirit of God is working in him, work out those good works, and men will see them and glorify God. The Bible is clear throughout that we are saved by grace (undeserved favor) through faith, (see Hebrews 11, the faith chapter), good works always being the result of salvation, never the cause of it. See Romans 4:3-5 it says, For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. Now to him that worketh is the reward NOT reckoned of grace, but of debt. But to him that worketh not, but BELIEVETH on him that justifieth the ungodly, his FAITH is counted for righteousness. See, God will not be a debtor to any man. Even Noah found grace in the sight of the Lord.(Genesis 6:8 KJV) Grace, undeserved favor. Ya know he got drunk as soon as he could grow some grapes, who can blame him, lol. Also look at Romans 5:16-18 and count how many times the word free gift and gift are used. Salvation is free, cant do anything to earn it, cant do anything to keep it, cant, praise God, do anything to lose it. Some folks go to Heaven and get crowned, some folks, God crowns (over the head) and takes em to Heaven, lol. Hope that helps.

Sincerely,

Joeboonda

I think you're using the words "damnation" and "salvation" to describe states at the opposite ends of the spectrum. I know that many Christians do believe that these two states are the only two that exist. Personally, I see damnation as something reserved for a relative few. I see the vast majority of human beings ultimately receiving a degree of salvation, that being determined by their worthiness, i.e. by the way they lived their lives and by their obedience to God's commandments. I believe that "salvation," when used in this way, will be granted to almost everyone who has ever lived, regardless of their religion. In other words, many will be saved from an eternity in hell, but will not receive all of the blessings they might have done had they been faithful to God's commandments. At the highest end of the spectrum, I see exaltation or eternal life in God's presence.

Click to expand...

I think you might have been explaining this to me earlier.. or someone else was. Either way, I was confused on how one could 'progress' through heaven - but I think that clears up any misconceptions I had. Thanks.

The good works do not actually save you, but they are evidence that you are saved. If one SAYS they believe in Christ, then we should see some results in their lives, however slow they may come.

Click to expand...

How about those like Gandhi, who don't believe in Christ but do all kinds of good works? How about people like me, your everyday American atheist, who is currently involved in all manner of community service? Is that evidence of the holy spirit, or the devil trying to pretend to do good, or what?

joeboonda said:

Matt 7:13-14 Enter ye in at the strait gate; for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat; Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Click to expand...

I believe this passage is referring to the fullness of salvation, not merely to the avoidance of hell.

Katzpur said:

I believe this passage is referring to the fullness of salvation, not merely to the avoidance of hell.

Click to expand...

Well, it says there is a wide road to DESTRUCTION, and a narrow road to LIFE. Destruction is not less full salvation, it is destruction, and pertaining to the soul, damnation. I don't like it so much either, but Jesus warned more about Hell than he taught about Heaven, it may not be palatable, but the truth is not many will follow after righteousness, and like the rich man in the story, not parable, was buried, and being in Hell lift up his eyes in torment. Hell is a real place, its really hot, people thirst, and are separated from God, it is destruction, and unfortunately, many will end up there. That is what the Bible says, I look around, and see it is sadly true, wickedness abounds, and there are few that will be saved. Good news is God is not willing that any should perish, but he says how will they be saved unless they hear the good news, and how will they hear unless it is preached. We need to be concerned with preaching the gospel and getting as many folks saved from Hell as we can. That is what the Bible says, its not, Oh, well, you'll get another chance in the next life. I wish it weren't so, but that is the 'gospel truth maam. The gospel truth.'

Sincerely,

Joeboonda

Fatmop said:

How about those like Gandhi, who don't believe in Christ but do all kinds of good works? How about people like me, your everyday American atheist, who is currently involved in all manner of community service? Is that evidence of the holy spirit, or the devil trying to pretend to do good, or what?

Click to expand...

First of all, unlike some people, I wouldn't be so presumptuous as to presuppose that I know how God is going to judge you. For me to do that would jeopardize my own salvation. Secondly, I don't believe the devil inspires anyone to do good. I believe that everyone -- LDS, Catholic, Jewish, Muslim, and atheist -- will be rewarded in Heaven for the good they do on earth. I believe that fundamental righteousness is based on what you personally believe to be true. I'm not trying to say that anything goes, because I believe that spiritual truths are absolute. I just also happen to believe that God loves us immensely.

My answer is going to be different from that of most Christians, since LDS doctrine on this subject varies somewhat from the traditional viewpoint. But we believe in three main divisions within heaven, and multiple divisions within those three.

In 1 Corinthians 15:40-42, Paul says, "There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory. So also is the resurrection of the dead..."

First of all, anyone who goes to heaven at all (and many who are atheists will be there, according to LDS belief) will receive a portion of God's glory and reside in one of the three "kingdoms" previously mentioned. While not all will receive the fullness of God's glory, the lowest degree of glory is certain a far cry from Hell. It's not what I want for myself, but it's a whole lot better place than most Christians believe athiests will go!

More importantly, we believe that the spirits of all who die will not go immediately to Heaven, but to a "Spirit World" where they will await the resurrection, at which time they will be reunited with a new, perfected, immortal body. In a nutshell, the gospel of Jesus Christ is being taught in the Spirit World right now. Those who never had the opportunity to hear about Christ's atoning sacrifice during their lifetimes will have that chance prior to the resurrection. It won't be too late for them to make the choice to embrace His gospel. Others, who for whatever reason, heard the gospel but did not accept it in this life will also continue to hear it taught. There are a multitude of factors (social, environmental, and others) that may have "interfered" with a person's understanding here on earth. Those barriers will be removed in the Spirit World. Of course, this is not to say that God won't also take into account pure stubbornness and rebelliousness on the part of those individuals who had every opportunity to accept Christ's gospel here on Earth. Our mortality is extremely important and we will be judged on how we lived our lives. But mortality is but a tiny spot on a string stretching infinitely forward and a long, long ways backward. I believe that God wants us to be with Him and will give us every opportunity -- within reason -- to do so. Those few who end up in Hell will essentially have made that choice themselves.

First of all, unlike some people, I wouldn't be so presumptuous as to presuppose that I know how God is going to judge you.

Click to expand...

Haha.. the question wasn't directed at you.

For me to do that would jeopardize my own salvation. Secondly, I don't believe the devil inspires anyone to do good. I believe that everyone -- LDS, Catholic, Jewish, Muslim, and atheist -- will be rewarded in Heaven for the good they do on earth. I believe that fundamental righteousness is based on what you personally believe to be true. I'm not trying to say that anything goes, because I believe that spiritual truths are absolute. I just also happen to believe that God loves us immensely.

Click to expand...

Seems to be a much more tolerant, loving, forgiving, and merciful God than i seem to hear about a lot. LDS may be on to something.

it's a whole lot better place than most Christians believe athiests will go!

Click to expand...

See, I'd much rather not believe in the Mormon God than not believe in the Baptist God.