The Afterlife

Pegg said:

there are over 7 million JW's worldwide, so we obviously cant' all hope to go to heaven.

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Pegg said:

other ancient cultures believed the same things everyone is teaching today...the soul lives on in a world of spirits where they are either punished or enter heaven.

But the Isrealites became the custodians of our Creators truth. God inspired the writing of the bible so that mankind would have access to the true situation. He made us and he knows what happens to us when we die. The bible is very clear about it unless you read it and twist it to mean something completely different.

anyone who reads the scriptures for what they are will admit that the end of life is a void... there is nothing after it... to dust we return.

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Pegg said:

lol

we dont have to assume about what the ancient aztecs believed regarding the afterlife...or the babylonians, or the greeks or romans or egyptions

there is more then enough evidence to know that what they believed is the same as what is being sprouted today

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james2ko said:

Out of curiosity, do you guys believe Rev 7 and 14 describe the same 144k?

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yaddoe said:

I'm sure people assume things about their beliefs as well, but I'm not talking about their beliefs, I'm talking about assumptions made in the interpretation of the Bible.

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Pegg said:

you dont have to interpret the bible

it says you will return to dust when you die. It says you will become unconscious.

there is nothing to interpret.

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arcanum said:

So Peg are you saying that all human beings, when they die, are dead for good? There is no afterlife in the JW teaching? No one inherits eternal life? What is the significance of the 144,000?

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yaddoe said:

physically it says you will return to dust, but it dosn't say that your spirit will cease to exist.

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Pegg said:

... there is an eternal future....but it is right here on earth in physical form, not as spirits in an 'afterlife'

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(Guide to the Scriptures | S Spirit.:Entry - Evil spirits)

SPIRIT. See also Death, Physical; Man, Men; Resurrection; Soul

That part of a living being which exists before mortal birth, which dwells in the physical body during mortality, and which exists after death as a separate being until the resurrection. All living things—mankind, animals, and plants—were spirits before any form of life existed upon the earth (Gen. 2:4–5; Moses 3:4–7). The spirit body looks like the physical body (1 Ne. 11:11; Ether 3:15–16; D&C 77:2; D&C 129). Spirit is matter, but it is more fine or pure than mortal element or matter (D&C 131:7).

Every person is literally a son or a daughter of God, having been born as a spirit to Heavenly Parents before being born to mortal parents on the earth (Heb. 12:9). Each person on earth has an immortal spirit body in addition to a body of flesh and bone. As sometimes defined in scripture, the spirit and the physical body together constitute the soul (Gen. 2:7; D&C 88:15; Moses 3:7, 9, 19; Abr. 5:7). A spirit can live without a physical body, but the physical body cannot live without the spirit (James 2:26). Physical death is the separation of the spirit from the body. In the resurrection, the spirit is reunited with the same physical body of flesh and bone it possessed as a mortal, with two major differences: they will never be separated again, and the physical body will be immortal and perfected (Alma 11:45; D&C 138:16–17).

A spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have, Luke 24:39. The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God, Rom. 8:16. Glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, 1 Cor. 6:20. This body is the body of my spirit, Ether 3:16. Man is spirit, D&C 93:33. Christ ministered to the righteous spirits in paradise, D&C 138:28–30 (1 Pet. 3:18–19). Ye were born into the world by water, and blood, and the spirit, Moses 6:59. He stood among those that were spirits, Abr. 3:23.

Evil spirits: Jesus cast out many devils, Mark 1:27, 34, 39. Come out of the man, thou unclean spirit, Mark 5:2–13. The evil spirit teacheth a man that he must not pray, 2 Ne. 32:8. In the name of Jesus did he cast out devils and unclean spirits, 3 Ne. 7:19. Many false spirits have gone forth deceiving the world, D&C 50:2, 31–32. Joseph Smith explained three keys for determining whether a spirit is of God or the devil, D&C 129.

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idea said:

we agree - and believe in a physical resurrection.

you do not believe in spirits at all? do not believe in evil spirits? or in angels? ... there are sure a lot of those in the scriptures....

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Pegg said:

yes of course we believe in spirit creatures....they are those who are created by God as spirits though.... humans were not created in spirit form like the angles. We are physical and this is how the majority of us will remain. God will give some a spirit life in heaven, but that is only a small few according to revelation.

the majority of mankind will be restored to physical life on earth.

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(Topical Guide | S Spirit:Entry)

Spirit (see also Breath of Life; Conscience; Contrite Heart; God, Spirit of; Holy Ghost; Holy Ghost, Baptism of; Holy Ghost, Gifts of; Holy Ghost, Loss of; Jesus Christ, Spirit of; Lord, Spirit of; Soul; Spirit Body; Spirit Creation; Spirits, Disembodied; Spirits, Evil or Unclean; Spirits in Prison; Teaching with the Spirit; BD Spirit)
Gen. 1:2 (Moses 2:2; Abr. 4:2) S. of God moved upon the face of the waters
Gen. 6:3 (Ether 2:15; D&C 1:33; Moses 8:17) My s. shall not always strive with man
Num. 11:17 I will take of the s. which is upon thee
Num. 27:18 Joshua ... in whom is the s.
1 Sam. 16:14 (19:9) evil s. from the Lord troubled him
1 Sam. 28:7 Seek me a woman that hath a familiar s.
2 Kgs. 2:9 let a double portion of thy s. be upon me
1 Chr. 28:12 the pattern of all that he had by the s.
Neh. 9:20 Thou gavest also thy good s. to instruct
Job 4:15 a s. passed before my face
Ps. 31:5 (Luke 23:46) Into thine hand I commit my spirit.
Ps. 32:2 in whose s. there is no guile
Ps. 34:18 Lord ... saveth such as be of a contrite s.
Ps. 51:10 renew a right s. within me
Ps. 51:17 sacrifices of God are a broken s.
Ps. 78:8 generation ... whose s. was not stedfast with God
Ps. 104:4 (Heb. 1:7) Who maketh his angels s.
Ps. 139:7 Whither shall I go from thy s.
Ps. 143:10 my God: thy s. is good
Prov. 1:23 (Isa. 32:15; 44:3; Joel 2:28; Acts 2:17; Jacob 7:8; Mosiah 4:20; Alma 8:10) I will pour out my s. unto you
Prov. 16:2 Lord weigheth the s.
Prov. 16:32 he that ruleth his s.
Prov. 17:27 man of understanding is of an excellent s.
Prov. 18:14 s. of a man will sustain his infirmity
Prov. 20:27 s. of man is the candle of the Lord
Prov. 25:28 He that hath no rule over his own s.
Eccl. 8:8 no man that hath power over the s. to retain the s.
Eccl. 11:5 thou knowest not what is the way of the s.
Eccl. 12:7 spirit. shall return unto God who gave it
Isa. 11:2 s. of the Lord shall rest upon him
Isa. 40:13 (40:7) Who hath directed the S. of the Lord, or ... taught
Isa. 42:1 (Matt. 12:18) I have put my s. upon him
Isa. 44:3 I will pour my s. upon thy seed
Ezek. 1:12 whither the s. was to go, they went
Ezek. 1:20 (1:21; 10:17) s. of the living creature was in the wheels
Ezek. 2:2 s. entered into me when he spake unto me
Ezek. 3:12 s. took me up, and I heard
Ezek. 8:3 (11:1, 24; 43:5) s. lifted me up between the earth
Ezek. 11:19 (36:26–27; 37:14) I will put a new s. within you
Dan. 4:8 (5:11) in whom is the s. of the holy gods
Dan. 6:3 Daniel was preferred ... because an excellent s. was in him
Hosea 4:12 s. of whoredoms hath caused them to err
Joel 2:28 (Acts 2:17) I will pour out my s. upon all flesh
Hag. 2:5 my s. remaineth among you
Zech. 4:6 Not by might ... but by my s.
Zech. 6:5 the four s. of the heavens
Matt. 4:1 (Mark 1:12; Luke 4:1) Jesus led up of the S. into the wilderness
Matt. 5:3 (3 Ne. 12:3) Blessed are the poor in s.
Matt. 8:16 he cast out the s. with his word
Matt. 10:1 (Mark 6:7) he gave them power against unclean s.
Matt. 10:20 it is not ye that speak, but the S. of your Father
Matt. 12:43 (Luke 11:24) When the unclean s. is gone out of a man
Matt. 12:45 (Luke 11:26) taketh with himself seven other s.
Matt. 14:26 (Mark 6:49) saying, It is a s.
Mark 1:10 (John 1:32) S. like a dove descending upon him
Mark 5:8 Come out of the man, thou unclean s.
Luke 1:47 my s. hath rejoiced in God
Luke 4:36 commandeth the unclean s., and they come out
Luke 9:55 Ye know not what manner of s. ye are of
Luke 23:46 into thy hands I commend my s.
Luke 24:37 supposed that they had seen a s.
Luke 24:39 s. hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me
John 3:5 born of water and of the S.
John 3:6 that which is born of the S. is s.
John 3:8 canst not tell whence it cometh ... that is born of the S.
John 4:24 God is a S., and they that worship him must worship him in s.
John 6:63 It is the s. that quickeneth
John 7:39 this spake he of the S.
John 14:17 S. of truth, whom the world cannot receive
John 15:26 S. of truth, which proceedeth from the Father
John 16:13 when he, the S. of truth, is come
Acts 2:4 speak with other tongues, as the S. gave them utterance
Acts 7:59 Stephen ... saying, Lord Jesus, receive my s.
Acts 8:29 S. said unto Philip, Go near
Acts 10:19 S. said unto him, Behold, three men seek thee
Acts 11:28 signified by the s. that there should be great dearth
Acts 20:22 I go bound in the s. unto Jerusalem
Acts 23:8 Sadducees say that there is no resurrection, neither angel, nor s.
Rom. 1:4 declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the s.
Rom. 2:29 in the s., and not in the letter
Rom. 7:6 we should serve in newness of s.
Rom. 8:1 (8:4) walk not after the flesh, but after the S.
Rom. 8:2 law of the S. of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free
Rom. 8:5 they that are after the S. the things of the S.
Rom. 8:9 if any man have not the S. of Christ, he is none of his
Rom. 8:10 S. is life because of righteousness
Rom. 8:13 if ye through the S. do mortify the deeds of the body
Rom. 8:16 S. itself beareth witness with our s.
Rom. 8:26 S. itself maketh intercession for us
Rom. 8:27 he ... knoweth what is the mind of the S.
1 Cor. 2:4 my speech ... in demonstration of the S.
1 Cor. 2:10 God hath revealed them unto us by his S.
1 Cor. 2:12 we have received, not the s. of the world, but the s. which is of God
1 Cor. 2:14 natural man receiveth not the things of the S.
1 Cor. 5:5 s. may be saved in the day of the Lord
1 Cor. 6:11 justified ... by the S. of our God
1 Cor. 6:20 glorify God in your body, and in your s.
1 Cor. 12:4 diversities of gifts, but the same S.
1 Cor. 12:7 (12:1–11) manifestation of the S. is given to every man
1 Cor. 12:8 given by the S. the word of wisdom
1 Cor. 12:10 to another discerning of s.
1 Cor. 12:13 by one S. are we all baptized into one body
1 Cor. 15:45 last Adam was made a quickening s.
2 Cor. 3:3 written not with ink, but with the S.
2 Cor. 3:6 letter killeth, but the s. giveth life
Gal. 3:2 Received ye the S. by the works of the law
Gal. 3:14 that we might receive the promise of the S.
Gal. 5:5 we through the S. wait for the hope of righteousness
Gal. 5:16 Walk in the S.
Gal. 5:17 flesh lusteth against the S., and the S. against the flesh
Gal. 5:22 fruit of the S. is love
Gal. 5:25 we live in the S., let us also walk in the S.
Gal. 6:8 he that soweth to the S. shall of the S. reap life everlasting
Eph. 2:18 we both have access by one S. unto the Father
Eph. 3:16 strengthened with might by his S.
Eph. 4:3 keep the unity of the S.
Eph. 4:23 be renewed in the s. of your mind
Eph. 5:9 fruit of the S. is in all goodness
Eph. 5:18 be filled with the S.
Eph. 6:17 take ... the sword of the S.
Philip. 1:19 supply of the S. of Jesus Christ
Philip. 1:27 stand fast in one s.
Philip. 2:1 If there be any fellowship of the S.
1 Thes. 5:19 Quench not the S.
1 Tim. 3:16 God was ... justified in the S.
1 Tim. 4:1 S. speaketh expressly
Heb. 1:14 Are they not all ministering s.
Heb. 12:23 (D&C 129:3) s. of just men made perfect
James 4:5 s. that dwelleth in us lusteth to envy
1 Pet. 3:18 quickened by the S.
1 Pet. 4:6 live according to God in the s.
1 Jn. 3:24 he abideth in us, by the S.
1 Jn. 4:1 believe not every s., but try the s.
1 Jn. 4:6 Hereby know we the s. of truth, and the s. of error
1 Jn. 4:13 he hath given us of his S.
1 Jn. 5:6 it is the S. that beareth witness, because the S. is truth
1 Jn. 5:8 three that bear witness in earth, the s., and the water, and the blood
Jude 1:19 sensual, having not the S.
Rev. 1:10 I was in the S. on the Lord's day
Rev. 2:7 let him hear what the S. saith unto the churches
Rev. 3:1 (4:5) the seven S. of God
Rev. 11:11 S. of life from God entered into them
Rev. 16:14 they are the s. of devils
Rev. 19:10 testimony of Jesus is the s. of prophecy

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idea said:

so you believe that spirit exist, just not within us?

seems like there are quite a few references to our spirits in there..

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Pegg said:

you dont have a spirit yaddoe. God put his own spirit into Adam to bring the man to life. So the only spirit in you is that which issues from God. And upon your death, that spirit will return to God because it belongs to him.


Job 27:3 While my breath is yet whole within me, And the spirit of God is in my nostrils

Isaiah 42:5 This is what the [true] God, Jehovah, has said, the Creator of the heavens and the Grand One stretching them out; the One laying out the earth and its produce, the One giving breath to the people on it, and spirit to those walking in it

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then the dust returns to the earth just as it happened to be and the spirit itself returns to the [true] God who gave it

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Pegg said:

the context of scriptures are important....just because the word 'spirit' is used in so many does not mean it proves we have our own spirit.

When God created Adam, he was lifeless until God breathed into him. So where was Adams spirit before God did that and why did God need to do that if Adam was already a spirit before he came to life as a man?

The scriptures state that the spirit issues from God. It is HIS spirit that gives us life....not our own spirit.

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yaddoe said:

lets finish Job's sentence.
"Moreover Job continued his parable, and said,
2 As God liveth, who hath taken away my judgment; and the Almighty, who hath vexed my soul;
3 All the while my breath is in me, and the spirit of God is in my nostrils;
4 My lips shall not speak wickedness, nor my tongue utter deceit."

When the spirit of God is with me I don't have any desire to do evil either.
Can a man have the spirit of God with him when he is doing evil?
According to you yes, for if the spirit of God were to leave he would die.

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yaddoe said:

I understand that you do not believe in the Holy Ghost as a member of the Godhead. I believe that verse 3 is describing the the Holy Ghost the third member of the Godhead, but that the holy spirit is describing the will of God.
If things were as you say this scripture is interpreted, I don't think anyone would ever speak wickedness or utter deceit.

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yaddoe said:

Isiah 42:
I believe God puts our spirits in our bodies.

Ecclesiastes 12
I believe that we existed as spirits with God before we were born and when we die our spirits return to live with God in a spiritual paradise.

I think your interpretations are mere assumptions.

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yaddoe said:

We believe "The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man’s; the Son also; but the Holy Ghost has not a body of flesh and bones, but is a personage of Spirit. Were it not so, the Holy Ghost could not dwell in us."
We believe that we are literal children of our Heavenly Father and that he has a plan for us to be like him, a part of that plan was for our spirits to receive bodies.

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yaddoe said:

I think god placed Adam's spirit within him and then kind of performed CPR and got his heart pumping. When man's heart ceases to pump, his body ceases to function and he dies.
We believe "The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man’s; the Son also; but the Holy Ghost has not a body of flesh and bones, but is a personage of Spirit. Were it not so, the Holy Ghost could not dwell in us."
We believe that we are literal children of our Heavenly Father and that he has a plan for us to be like him, a part of that plan was for our spirits to receive bodies.

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Pegg said:

yes i've heard about this particular teaching. Do you base it on any particular scriptures in the bible or is it from the book of mormon?

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