Philosophy of Angellous' Background

Smoke · Aug 6, 2010

Kathryn said:
Wow, Angellous, I simply can't imagine that your theological beliefs fit in well with Baptists. I'm much more conservative than you are politically and theologically, and I couldn't bear to attend most Baptist churches. I know that individually Baptists can be great people, but collectively...AUGH!

I think the Baptist doctrines of soul competency and/or soul freedom could make for a very interesting, very dynamic and possibly a very liberal community. It's interesting to me that these doctrines are so often downplayed in favor of authoritarianism or interpreted in an authoritarian manner. The Southern Baptist Convention says this:

We affirm soul competency, the accountability of each person before God. Your family cannot save you. Neither can your church. It comes down to you and God. Authorities can't force belief or unbelief. They shouldn't try.

Against this backdrop of religious freedom, it's important for us Baptists to set forth our convictions. By stating them in a forthright manner, we provide nonbelievers with a clear choice.

This seems to me like one of the worst possible interpretations of the doctrine. It has great potential in another direction. The Baptists, authoritarianism or otherwise, aren't for me, but they have the potential to be something much more interesting and positive than the SBC would lead you to believe. I hope the CBF will continue to explore that potential.

angellous_evangellous · Aug 6, 2010

Smoke said:
This seems to me like one of the worst possible interpretations of the doctrine. It has great potential in another direction. The Baptists, authoritarianism or otherwise, aren't for me, but they have the potential to be something much more interesting and positive than the SBC would lead you to believe. I hope the CBF will continue to explore that potential.

I too hope that CBF will grow. It would be even better if we had some Alliance or American Baptists who actually practice what they preach.

The CBF recently had a community discussion on homosexuality -- the purpose was to determine if their stance against homosexuality have changed.

autonomous1one1 · Aug 7, 2010

Hey Nate. Since when did you quit answering questions from the ignorant? See post #40.

angellous_evangellous · Aug 7, 2010

autonomous1one1 said:
[
As a Bible scholar and since you provide interpretation to others, which translation(s) do you work with and how do you feel about the many that are available? Do you have any constraints on which you refer others to?

For preaching and literary enjoyment, the NIV is the best. The translators in this case made sure to point the reader to evangelicalism.

ESV is the most literal, but its sentence structure tries to mimic the Greek.

The best translation IMHO is the Oxford NRSV.

The constraints on what I'll recommend to others are if I know it's not a translation of the Greek, and just an updated re-hashing of another Bible, I would avoid that.

When I preach with the Greek NT in front of me, I can see variant texts and I can say - Some of your translations may render this text XX and that's a good translation that adds some stuff 300 years after our text was written...

My focus is not getting everyone to read the same Bible, but focusing on the rich diversity and unity in the early church and today.

autonomous1one1 · Aug 7, 2010

angellous_evangellous said:
For preaching and literary enjoyment, the NIV is the best. The translators in this case made sure to point the reader to evangelicalism.

ESV is the most literal, but its sentence structure tries to mimic the Greek.

The best translation IMHO is the Oxford NRSV.

The constraints on what I'll recommend to others are if I know it's not a translation of the Greek, and just an updated re-hashing of another Bible, I would avoid that.

When I preach with the Greek NT in front of me, I can see variant texts and I can say - Some of your translations may render this text XX and that's a good translation that adds some stuff 300 years after our text was written...

My focus is not getting everyone to read the same Bible, but focusing on the rich diversity and unity in the early church and today.

Thank you, Angel. Love that approach, the likes of which one has not come across before. You definitely de man.

angellous_evangellous · Aug 7, 2010

autonomous1one1 said:
Thank you, Angel. Love that approach, the likes of which one has not come across before. You definitely de man.

haha

I'm sure I'm not the only one who has done this... but I don't mind taking the credit.

My only hope is to be honest. I'm not going to quibble over the small stuff, but I strongly believe that people should know what they are reading, especially if they are using it to guide their spiritual life.

angellous_evangellous · Aug 7, 2010

I was taught to hate the KJV -- I can still hear my old Greek prof yelling at us about how terrible the KJV was. Some for the NIV.

Now that I can read Greek, I can see how both of these translations are quite beautiful.

angellous_evangellous · Jan 4, 2012

And an update more than a year later - my entire dissertation draft is written and in revision.

I'm scheduled to get really, really drunk in May.

idea · Feb 4, 2012

angellous_evangellous said:
This is a place to debate / discuss my credentials as a minister and scholar. Several times on RF, a member would like to challenge points in my background, and this is the place to challenge it.

======

I was raised and educated Southern Baptist in West Texas.

I graduated from Wayland Baptist University in 2001 with a BA in Religion and 2003 with an MA in Biblical Studies, New Testament. Then I went to Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary in Fort Worth, TX for two years to learn Hebrew, French, and German to prepare for Ph.D. studies. Now I attend Brite Divinity School, where I am finishing up a Ph.D. in Biblical Studies, New Testament.

I was ordained in 2003 by a Baptist Church in Lubbock, TX, and I have been serving Baptist churches (and churches of other denomenations) in Texas, Oklahoma, and New Mexico for the past 10 years. I'm not a pastor, I am a scholar, but my tradition affirms scholarship as a ministry. Due to the highly volatile nature of Baptist ministry these days, with Baptist ministers being trained to destroy eachother's careers and other people's lives rather than feed God's flock, I may not remain Baptist very long. I have been attending a Presbyterian church when I am not serving, looking for a denomenation that will recognize my creditials.

I preach regularly and offer countless other services to churches as requested in a wide area, but most of my time is devoted to the study of our sacred Scriptures and producing scholarly work for the academy and the church. I have not published my work yet, but am set to publish a wide variety of studies in preparation for the beginning of my professional and academic career. I am a member of several scholarly guilds and ministerial/ecumenical alliances.

Updates:

9/14/9 - Yesterday my wife and I joined Broadway Baptist Church in Ft. Worth, TX.

Today my dissertation proposal was officially approved by the faculty and I'm well on my way for chapter 1.

9/28/9 - I have chosen to be a Baptist minister affiliated with the Cooperative Baptist Fellowship and the Alliance of Baptists. I just sent my resume to them this morning.

7/27/10 - Chapters one, two, three, and four are complete! Moving on nicely in chapter 5. Hope to be done by December.

2/1/12 - Finished chapter 8, turned in entire dissertation - graduating in May

meh- I have a PhD too, want to see my vita?

Jesus chose uneducated fishermen to be his disciples, rather than relying on the highly educated scribes and pharisees of his day... I wonder why that was?

I agree, it's good to study things out, just so you know how to be guided by the Spirit too...

14 And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets.
15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-jona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
(New Testament | Matthew 16:14 - 18)

The real church is not built on degrees, it's built on revelations.... it's built on the backs of crazy homeless men running around in the wilderness with camel skins eating bugs - at least that's the guy the baptists like best, right? (I like that homeless bug-eating guy myself)

idea · Feb 4, 2012

angellous_evangellous said:
And an update more than a year later - my entire dissertation draft is written and in revision.

it's a good feeling to finally get that book together. hope things go well for you in May!

angellous_evangellous · Feb 5, 2012

My professor approved my dissertation - I just turned it in to my committee - defense is in late March.

Spiffy · Mar 2, 2012

we need to place humanism - the value of human expression, health, and thought - above any interpretation.

Tradition generally seems to recognize that the role of Moses in the Exodus was symbolically that of Christ as intecessor. Assuming this to be true, it would appear God's orchestration of persons and events created this type for the benefit of future readers of the Scripture. Can you explain how this could be valid from a humanistic interpretive model?

angellous_evangellous · Mar 2, 2012

Spiffy said:
Tradition generally seems to recognize that the role of Moses in the Exodus was symbolically that of Christ as intecessor. Assuming this to be true, it would appear God's orchestration of persons and events created this type for the benefit of future readers of the Scripture. Can you explain how this could be valid from a humanistic interpretive model?

Did you present the question as a possible value humanistic interpretative model?

Please, don't patronize me by asking questions to which you think that you know the answer. It insults my intelligence, and belittles yours.

Spiffy · Mar 7, 2012

I had forgotten about this post till now, just returned to find your snide remarks.

I'm not patronizing anyone. It's really very simple: upon reading your comments in this thread, it occured to me that the so-called 'humanistic' model you contend for could have no ready answer for types or other (or any) models in which meaning could be woven into Scripture by God apart from the human authors. I posed my question in exactly this frame of mind, no more or less.

Here's what we appear to have:
1. You misinterpreted the spirit in which I posted and struck out blindly and emotionally;
2. You are not capable of adequately answering the question and posted with bogus indignation in order to avoid having to answer the question.

In case you didn't get the above, I'll respond more directly: I presented the question from the standpoint of curiosity to see how a humanistic interpretation of the Bible is able to answer what seems to me an understanding which would almost have to dismiss any form of meaning orchestrated by God and woven into the Scriptures beyond what the authors intended. I may misunderstand what you mean by 'humanistic interpretation', it's not a model I've had much contact with. Posing questions and getting answers...when possible....happens to be how I learn.

If you are unable to provide a reasonable answer, just say so. I will eventually find someone who also has a humanistic approach who has more emotional control and will dialog with him.

-Peacemaker- · Mar 8, 2012

AE: My impression of your style of ministry is that it's rather "hands off". I'll grant you that I can be judgemental and so maybe i'm not the best person to be ministering to others but I think a biblical ministry is one in which call out people's sins TO EACH OTHER, not in front of a pulpit unless it's perhaps a pastor. The key is to challenge each other IN LOVE. My impression of your ideas about ministry is that you feel like that's crossing lines that man is in no position to cross

angellous_evangellous · Mar 8, 2012

Junglej25 said:
AE: My impression of your style of ministry is that it's rather "hands off". I'll grant you that I can be judgemental and so maybe i'm not the best person to be ministering to others but I think a biblical ministry is one in which call out people's sins TO EACH OTHER, not in front of a pulpit unless it's perhaps a pastor. The key is to challenge each other IN LOVE. My impression of your ideas about ministry is that you feel like that's crossing lines that man is in no position to cross

I see it as my job to inspire people to open themselves up to God, who is a pretty good pastor. If people ASK me (and they often do), as a disciplined reader of Scripture and its interpreters if something is a sin according to the Bible, I can answer. Then, if they ask my opinion, I give it to them.

But everything I do is useless if the person is uninspired to be open to God. They don't need to be open to me, or the Bible, because the Bible is worthless without the activity of God.

-Peacemaker- · Mar 8, 2012

angellous_evangellous said:
I see it as my job to inspire people to open themselves up to God, who is a pretty good pastor. If people ASK me (and they often do), as a disciplined reader of Scripture and its interpreters if something is a sin according to the Bible, I can answer. Then, if they ask my opinion, I give it to them.

But everything I do is useless if the person is uninspired to be open to God. They don't need to be open to me, or the Bible, because the Bible is worthless without the activity of God.

I think we need to challenge each other as Christians, especially when one of our brothers doesn't feel like being challenged. I think it's also possible to motivate someone who was previously feeling idle throught the use of relevant Scripture and exhortation. If you were caught up in a sin, especially as a new, immature believer, wouldn't you want a pastor to step in and tell you that you need to clean up your act? Are you going to just hope and pray that they open up to the Scriptures they need to hear or are you going to deliver the word that you know needs to be spoken?

angellous_evangellous · Mar 11, 2012

Junglej25 said:
I think we need to challenge each other as Christians, especially when one of our brothers doesn't feel like being challenged. I think it's also possible to motivate someone who was previously feeling idle throught the use of relevant Scripture and exhortation. If you were caught up in a sin, especially as a new, immature believer, wouldn't you want a pastor to step in and tell you that you need to clean up your act? Are you going to just hope and pray that they open up to the Scriptures they need to hear or are you going to deliver the word that you know needs to be spoken?

No. My hope and trust is that God knows how to take care of those who call on him, and those who don't.

Besides, as I said, people do ask me - and I've found that they are more open to my advice when it's asked for and not when I volunteer it. It's the principle of listening before talking - I can get information I need so I don't speak like a fool.

-Peacemaker- · Mar 11, 2012

angellous_evangellous said:
No. My hope and trust is that God knows how to take care of those who call on him, and those who don't.

Besides, as I said, people do ask me - and I've found that they are more open to my advice when it's asked for and not when I volunteer it. It's the principle of listening before talking - I can get information I need so I don't speak like a fool.

No offense, but this is probably why you're more of an academic than a pastor. You sound more concerned with being friends with people than delivering the word that needs to be delivered. IMO, Jesus is the best example we have of a person who delivered the right word, often at the expense of having alot of people hate him

Terrywoodenpic · Mar 11, 2012

I have dipped into this thread from time to time.
It seems to me that over the past few years of study, Your understanding of "Christianity" has changed.

The deep study of the new Testament seems to change people in two different directions. They either become more "Literalistic" and dogmatic, or they become more openminded, even uncertain.

You seem to have become more liberal and open to accept a wide variety of opposing "Christian Values" for the sake of unity.

Are you still comfortable as a "Baptist"? or should you be looking for a wider audience that is prepared to be more accepting of the wider view of modern society and personal values?

The Anglican communion covers an exceptionally wide variety of traditions and beliefs. It is constantly Navel gazing in an attempt to embrace everyone. Over the centuries this has, in its failure, created a vast number of independent churches. Each one of these has become more and more dogmatic about a narrower and narrower set of beliefs.

The Communion is still very large, but has become increasingly diluted in it's theology, to the extent that it is now mainly a church concerned with worship. The remainder of it's energy goes into the politics of its continued existence.

This is all a long way of saying, have you found a path to follow?

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