• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

God, the Holy Bible, Christianity and Physical Warfare

BUDDY

User of Aspercreme
Christians often find themselves in a struggle of conscience when they consider their relationship to the civil government. The Lord commands us to "Render therefore to Caesar the things that are Caesar's," but what does this involve? We know we must pay our taxes (Rom. 13:7), pray for our leaders (1 Tim. 2:1-4), and refrain from speaking evil of them (Tit. 3:1,2).

In Romans 13:1 we are commanded to obey civil law. John MacArthur said, "I am amazed that in spite of the clarity of this command, many people persist in disobeying it, not only in American society and culture but in others as well. Jesus never taught His people to storm the Bastille, revolt against the king, kill unjust rulers, march on city hall, barricade an administration building on campus, lead a sit-in at the president's office, harass leaders, or violate the law" (The Christian And Civil Government, p. 24).

We must obey all civil laws whether we like them or not. There is only one limitation: if the government commands us to act in way which God has prohibited, we must "obey God rather than men" (Acts 5:29). But what if the government goes to war? Can we fight for our government? Do we have the right to drop bombs on enemy targets? Do we ever have the right to be police officers?

Some brethren have posed these questions in prejudicial terms. I have noticed several articles asking "Can a Christian kill for his government?" This is not the issue. The issue is this: does anyone have the right to be a soldier or a policeman? I am amazed brethren can write articles on marriage and divorce proving God has one law for all mankind. But, when these same brethren write about carnal warfare they appear to argue Christians are under a different law than non-Christians. Consistency takes a back seat.

If it is sinful for a Christian to be a soldier, then it is sinful for anyone to serve in the military. If it is a sin for a Christian to be a police officer, then all police officers are doomed to hell. Yet, God commands the government to punish evildoers (1 Pet. 2:14). The civil government is "God's minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil" (Rom. 13:4). I have trouble understanding how some can teach the death penalty is commanded by God and yet believe the man who carries out the sentence is damned by God for obeying this command! It makes no sense.

Christians have no right to seek personal vengeance (Rom. 12:19). God has said all vengeance belongs to Him (Rom. 12:19). However, God has delegated "vengeance" to the civil government (Rom. 13:4). Albert Barnes said, "When a magistrate inflicts punishment on the guilty, it is to be regarded as the act of God taking vengeance on him; and on this principle alone is it right for a judge to condemn a man to death. It is not because one man has by nature the right over the life of another, or because society has any right collectively which it does not as individuals; but because God gave life, and because he has chosen to take it away when a crime is committed, by the appointment of magistrates, and not by coming forth himself visibly to execute the laws" (Barnes Notes, Vol. 4, p. 294).

Do Christians have the right to serve in the government as a soldier or a policeman? Let us avoid hypothetical questions and situations and answer the question by appealing to New Testament examples.

John And The Soldiers

Multitudes came to hear John preaching in the wilderness as he prepared men for the kingdom of God. John told the Pharisees and Sadducees to "bear fruits worthy of repentance" (Matt. 3:8) and instructed the people to be willing to share (Luke 3:10,11).

The tax collectors ("publicans" in the King James Version) came to be baptized by John and asked what they had to do. John did not instruct these servants of Caesar to leave their jobs, but to be honest in their collections.

Soldiers also inquired to see if they had to meet any special requirements before they could be baptized. John said, "Do not intimidate anyone or accuse falsely, and be content with your wages" (Luke 3:14). Unfortunately, the King James Version translates the Greek verb diaseio with the phrase "do violence to no man." This verb "literally means 'shake violently.' In those days it was a technical, legal term, meaning 'extort money by violence' much like our current slang expression 'shake down'" (Ralph Earle, Word Meanings In The New Testament, p. 58).

What a perfect time for John to tell these soldiers to leave the army; instead, he tells them to be honest and not grumble about their wages. If it is a sin for one to be a soldier, John sure missed it!

Saints In Caesar's Household

When Paul closed his letter to the Philippians, he said, "All the saints greet you, but especially those who are of Caesar's household" (Phil. 4:22). Who were these people? "Paul sends special greetings from the Christian brothers who are of Caesar's household. It is important to understand this phrase rightly. It does not mean those who are of Caesar's kith and kin. Caesar's household was the regular phrase for what we would call the Imperial Civil Service; it had members all over the world. The palace officials, the secretaries, the people who had charge of the imperial revenues, those who were responsible for the day-to-day administration of the empire, all these were Caesar's household" (William Barclay, The Letters To The Philippians, Colossians, and Thessalonians, p. 87).

Those who claim it is sinful to work for the government have a big problem with this verse. The Ethiopian nobleman (Acts 8) is another example of a Christian serving in his government.

Cornelius

Have you ever heard someone claim the lifestyle of a soldier is totally incompatible with that of a Christian? It makes me wonder if they have ever read the book of Acts. The first Gentile to obey the gospel was a Roman soldier named Cornelius, "a centurion of what was called the Italian Regiment, a devout man and one who feared God with all his household, who gave alms generously to the people, and prayed to God always" (Acts 10:1,2). Peter was sent to this man to tell him the "words" he needed to hear in order to be saved (Acts 10:6,22; 11:14). Read the tenth chapter of Acts. Do you see any "words" about Cornelius having to resign his military commission before he could be saved?

The Philippian Jailer

One of the first men in Europe to obey the gospel was the Philippian jailer (Acts 16). Though he served the Roman government and carried a sword, Paul did not have him leave his occupation. The jailer was still on the job after his conversion (Acts 16:35,36).

Paul Used Roman Soldiers

When Paul found out forty men were going to ambush him, he used over 470 Roman soldiers as bodyguards (Acts 23:12-23). Paul knew if those who sought his life tried to make good on their threats the soldiers would kill or imprison everyone of them.

Paul told Timothy not to "share in other people's sins" (1 Tim. 5:22). Friend, if it is wrong to be a soldier, it is wrong to use one. If you believe it is sinful to be a policeman, you are a hypocrite if you ever call for one to protect you or your family. These are strong words, but I offer no apology.

Conclusion

I've had brethren try to counter these New Testament examples by asking, "Can you picture Christ wearing an army uniform and carrying an M-16?" To be honest, I do find that hard to picture. But, by the same token, I cannot picture my Lord wearing a hard-hat or a football helmet. Does that make it a sin to be coal miner or a football player?

I have never tried to persuade people to join the military. There are things associated with military life not conducive to godly living. But, I do not encourage men to work on off-shore oil wells for the same reason. If your conscience will not allow you to join the military, then stay out. If you are in the military, then be honest in your dealings with others and "be content with your wages" (Luke 3:14).
taken from David Padfield, Zion Church of Christ

The reason I bring this up is because there is a lot of discussion on this sight lately concerning christianity and the current conflict. While war is certainly not desired by God, I think this clearly shows God's view of the civil authority, the christian, and the christians obligation for obedience to that authority. I am really tired of the attempts by many on this forum, to label those of us who are called to be christian, hypocrites for believing that the war is justified, right, and that we are right to follow and support the government actions. While God does desire peace, he also desires that those He has set in power should perform that tasks and carry out His vengence when necessary.

What are your thoughts on this?
 

Green Gaia

Veteran Member
EEWRED said:
What are your thoughts on this?
he also desires that those He has set in power should perform that tasks and carry out His vengence when necessary.

Would that be like Bush saying G-d told him to attack Iraq?

Is it any wonder why those with this mindset scare the livng crap out of us not of your religion? With your (and Bush's) sort of reasoning anything he decides to do is sactioned by G-d. Sorry if that doesn't sit well with those of us believe otherwise.
 

BUDDY

User of Aspercreme
Maize said:
he also desires that those He has set in power should perform that tasks and carry out His vengence when necessary.

Would that be like Bush saying G-d told him to attack Iraq?

Is it any wonder why those with this mindset scare the livng crap out of us not of your religion? With your (and Bush's) sort of reasoning anything he decides to do is sactioned by G-d. Sorry if that doesn't sit well with those of us believe otherwise.
This is more in response to those who say that we Christians are hypocritical for believing that warfare is sometimes necessary. While I can't answer for Bush and his claim that God spoke to him, I can say that God speaks to us through His word, the Holy Bible, and that those who are in power are their because He allowed it. I don't understand why this should scare you. If those decisions are against or opposed to God's commands for a christian life, then what is there to be afraid of? Or do you believe that the christian life is a threat to you?
 

Halcyon

Lord of the Badgers
EEWRED said:
This is more in response to those who say that we Christians are hypocritical for believing that warfare is sometimes necessary. While I can't answer for Bush and his claim that God spoke to him, I can say that God speaks to us through His word, the Holy Bible, and that those who are in power are their because He allowed it. I don't understand why this should scare you. If those decisions are against or opposed to God's commands for a christian life, then what is there to be afraid of? Or do you believe that the christian life is a threat to you?
How do you know whether or not God puts a person into power, or if it is the work of the Devil. Since many things have been attributed to the Devil, how can you distunguish which is which?
 

BUDDY

User of Aspercreme
Halcyon said:
How do you know whether or not God puts a person into power, or if it is the work of the Devil. Since many things have been attributed to the Devil, how can you distunguish which is which?
The biblical indication is that God has set them into power and we are to obey them, so long as that obedience is not in direct violation to God's command. To me the scriptures indicate that God sets those into power. If they are doing "evil" according to biblical principle, then we are not to follow. Otherwise we should. I don't believe that the devil has anything to do with getting them into power, but certainly he can have influence on their decisions once they are in power.
 

Green Gaia

Veteran Member
EEWRED said:
and that those who are in power are their because He allowed it.

Does that go for all in power or just the Christian ones? If not just the Christian ones, then why did G-d put Kim Jong Il in power in North Korea. He's starving and murdering his people.

I don't understand why this should scare you.
Of course you don't, you are the majority.
If those decisions are against or opposed to God's commands for a christian life, then what is there to be afraid of?
I'm not really concerned with what is and is not a Christian life, as I am not a Christian. Unless those that are Christian feel it necessary to force those constraints upon me. That I am opposed to.
Or do you believe that the christian life is a threat to you?
Depends on what you mean by Christian life. If it means living a life of peace and in service to others as Jesus taught, then no it would not be a threat to me, as those are UU values as well. But some of the fundamentalist ideas of what is a Christian life would be a threat to me when those in power try to make their religious views the law of the land, and I have no desire have it forced upon me by a President who believes he in the strong arm of G-d carrying out G-d's vengeance.
 

Popeyesays

Well-Known Member
EEWRED said:
This is more in response to those who say that we Christians are hypocritical for believing that warfare is sometimes necessary. While I can't answer for Bush and his claim that God spoke to him, I can say that God speaks to us through His word, the Holy Bible, and that those who are in power are their because He allowed it. I don't understand why this should scare you. If those decisions are against or opposed to God's commands for a christian life, then what is there to be afraid of? Or do you believe that the christian life is a threat to you?
So what is "righteous war"?
In my faith the only righteous war is war in defense of national borders. Baha`i's are called upon to obey civil authority to the point where civil authority demands Baha`i's forswear their religion.

So from a personal viewpoint, a Baha`i living in a non-Baha`i society obeys the law. He is called upon to accdept being drafted if it is the law, but to seek non-combatant status.

In the bigger viewpoint, the Baha`i ideal would be that all nations come to the assistance of a nation invaded. This would deter war because it would remove any hope of gaining territorial advantage by an aggressor.

This kind of international cooperation was evident in the FIRST GUlf War, but is not evident in the Second Gulf War.

Regards,
Scott Saylors
 

Halcyon

Lord of the Badgers
EEWRED said:
The biblical indication is that God has set them into power and we are to obey them, so long as that obedience is not in direct violation to God's command. To me the scriptures indicate that God sets those into power. If they are doing "evil" according to biblical principle, then we are not to follow. Otherwise we should. I don't believe that the devil has anything to do with getting them into power, but certainly he can have influence on their decisions once they are in power.
Evil according to biblical principle... not in direct violation to God's commandment...

Lets see... Thou shalt not kill... Live by the sword, die by the sword... turn the other cheek... love thy neighbour.

Seems war is against all of these biblical principles, and against the very law of God - thus follwing a leader to war is a ticket to hell. I assume you disagree?

Also, Maize makes a good point. Is it just Christian leaders that God has appointed. Or did he also make Osama bin Laden the leader of Al Queda? How about Saddam Hussain?
 

michel

Administrator Emeritus
Staff member
Halcyon said:
Evil according to biblical principle... not in direct violation to God's commandment...

Lets see... Thou shalt not kill... Live by the sword, die by the sword... turn the other cheek... love thy neighbour.

Seems war is against all of these biblical principles, and against the very law of God - thus follwing a leader to war is a ticket to hell. I assume you disagree?

Also, Maize makes a good point. Is it just Christian leaders that God has appointed. Or did he also make Osama bin Laden the leader of Al Queda? How about Saddam Hussain?
Quite, I am sorry EEWRED, there are far too many leaders who, I think, would have been at the bottom of God's list as leaders....How is God supposed to reveal to the potential leaders his choice ?:rolleyes:
 

BUDDY

User of Aspercreme
michel said:
Quite, I am sorry EEWRED, there are far too many leaders who, I think, would have been at the bottom of God's list as leaders....How is God supposed to reveal to the potential leaders his choice ?:rolleyes:
I never said that He talks to them to let them know He has chosen them. But, for whatever reason, through His providence, He allows those to be set into power who are their. In other words, it is His will that those who have rule over us, do so. If you don't believe that, then you are believing what the Bible clearly teaches. Which is fine, but you are forced to admit that. IT is pretty clear, regardless of which translation you read.
Halcyon said:
Evil according to biblical principle... not in direct violation to God's commandment...
They are one in the same. If you are doing evil in God's eyes, then you are doing something that violates one of His commands.

Halhyon said:
Lets see... Thou shalt not kill... Live by the sword, die by the sword... turn the other cheek... love thy neighbour. Seems war is against all of these biblical principles, and against the very law of God - thus follwing a leader to war is a ticket to hell. I assume you disagree?
Well, yeah, and I pretty much explained in my first post, may want to read it again. Basically there is a difference between carrying out a sentance, obeying an order, which we are instructed to do, and taking vengence and wrath upon ourselves, which you have clearly pointed out, we are not to do. Although, I would argue that the command is to not commit murder. I think that you are taking two different lines of thought and combining them. But, they are not meant to be combined. In a christians everyday walk and how we choose to interact with those around us, we are not to provoke anyone to wrath or violence, we are to avoid violence, and live toward peace. However, there are those who will try to thwart that peace, God has put leaders into power to deal with such things, and it is up to us to follow those leaders so long as they are not in violation of God's law and therefore doing that which is evil.

Halcyon said:
Also, Maize makes a good point. Is it just Christian leaders that God has appointed. Or did he also make Osama bin Laden the leader of Al Queda? How about Saddam Hussain?
As I said, God, through His providence has allowed those leaders to come into power, but the evil that they have done was their responsibility and they are accountable for it, and the same can be said of those that are christians. Not all christians that have become powerful and rulers, have continued to do things that are right in God's sight. Being a christian does not necessitate being a good ruler. Being a non-christian does not necessitate being an evil ruler. But good or evil, all have been put into power because of God's providence, and we responsibilty to be obedient to that power so long as it does not conglict with God's commands. God's decision to allow someone into power does not make them good or bad, and it doesn't mean they are christian or non-christian.
 

Terrywoodenpic

Oldest Heretic
EEWRED
God is not jnvolved in either choosing or supporting leaders, we are entirely responsible for selecting our own leaders.
This is exercising the freewill that God has given us.
There is no evidence he has ever made such a choice for us.
Soldiers are responsible for their own actions, be they Generals or privates.This is confirmed by your own and international law.
It is never a defence to say I was ordered to do something.
Jesus did not even want to be defended... He even replaced the Roman soldiers ear.

Fom the beatitudes...
Amen! Truly I say to you: Gather in my name. I am with you.
Blessed are the merciful, mercy shall be shown unto them.
Blessed are the pure of heart, they shall behold their God.
Blessed are those who bring peace, they shall be children of God
Blessed are those who suffer in the cause of right, the kingdom of heaven is theirs.


Dose this sound like he supported war


Terry____________________________________
 

BUDDY

User of Aspercreme
Terrywoodenpic said:
EEWRED
God is not jnvolved in either choosing or supporting leaders
I never once said support so please refrain from interjecting your own personal prejudices into this. I would encourage you to read my first post, since this is in direct conflict with the passages quoted. While I agree that God is no respecter of persons and is not a fan of one person over another, be they a ruler or otherwise, he does allow those in power to be their through his providence, and this is clearly taught through scripture. Please respond to passages, that way I know which part of the Bible you are refuting.
Terry said:
Soldiers are responsible for their own actions, be they Generals or privates.This is confirmed by your own and international law.
I agree, they are. If they do not follow those orders, they are breaking God's law according to the Bible, so long as those orders, laws, or whatever are not in direct conflict with God's laws. Please people, read my post and explanation before you write things down. I don't like repeating myself over and over again.
Terry said:
It is never a defence to say I was ordered to do something.
Never said it was. But, if you are ordered to do something and it is not in direct violation of God's law, then it is not defendable not to follow that order.
Terry said:
Jesus did not even want to be defended... He even replaced the Roman soldiers ear.
Yes, he did, but this has nothing to do with defending Jesus from something that He was sent here to do. Please don't take things out of context. Jesus was on a mission to be sacrificed for the sins of the world, not to start a fight with those who wanted to arrest him. Also, keep in mind that Jesus was pretty violent when defending God and His temple.

Terry said:
Fom the beatitudes...
Amen! Truly I say to you: Gather in my name. I am with you.
Blessed are the merciful, mercy shall be shown unto them.
Blessed are the pure of heart, they shall behold their God.
Blessed are those who bring peace, they shall be children of God
Blessed are those who suffer in the cause of right, the kingdom of heaven is theirs.


Dose this sound like he supported war?
So you are saying that you can't be all of these things and be a soldier in a war at the same time. Can a soldier in wartime, bring peace to many> Can a soldier be merciful to others? Can a soldier not be pure in heart? Can a soldier not suffer in the cause of right? Nice try, but I don't think that it is mutually exclusive. Also, please go back and read what John the Baptist said to those soldiers wanting to be baptized.
 

Terrywoodenpic

Oldest Heretic
EERWED
I think your needle has got stuck an what John the Baptist is reported to have said.

When refering to the bible I always give preference to Jesus sayings and doings.
Nor can I see any evidence he hurt anyone in the temple.
Soldies are needed for the defence of their country and the innocent.
They will be Judged by God for their actions, like us all.
You should note that International and the Law of the USA do not accept the defence that you were carrying out an order. They require the Soldier to differentiate between a legal and illegal order. This might be tough but it is the Law. This is not a question of Gods Law.

Terry______________________
Blessed are the pure of heart, they shall behold their God.
 

Scuba Pete

Le plongeur avec attitude...
I feel that it is IMPORTANT to point out that we have a VOLUNTEER army. No Christian ever has to serve. It is also IMPORTANT to point out that there are many positions within our armed forces for Concientious Objectors: medicoes, communications, chaplains, etc.

In light of the scriptures given, I would offer these"

Colossians 3:12 Therefore, as God's chosen people, holy and dearly loved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience. 13 Bear with each other and forgive whatever grievances you may have against one another. Forgive as the Lord forgave you. 14 And over all these virtues put on love, which binds them all together in perfect unity.
15 Let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts, since as members of one body you were called to peace. And be thankful. 16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly as you teach and admonish one another with all wisdom, and as you sing psalms, hymns and spiritual songs with gratitude in your hearts to God. 17 And whatever you do, whether in word or deed, do it all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him. NIV

The last gives way to the wristband that I would like to own: WWJB? Who Would Jesus Bomb? Hey, I would bomb them too!

James 3:13 Who is wise and understanding among you? Let him show it by his good life, by deeds done in the humility that comes from wisdom. 14 But if you harbor bitter envy and selfish ambition in your hearts, do not boast about it or deny the truth. 15 Such "wisdom" does not come down from heaven but is earthly, unspiritual, of the devil. 16 For where you have envy and selfish ambition, there you find disorder and every evil practice.
17 But the wisdom that comes from heaven is first of all pure; then peace-loving, considerate, submissive, full of mercy and good fruit, impartial and sincere. 18 Peacemakers who sow in peace raise a harvest of righteousness. NIV

Give me that wisdom that comes from above!!!

Romans 12:14 Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse. 15 Rejoice with those who rejoice; mourn with those who mourn. 16 Live in harmony with one another. Do not be proud, but be willing to associate with people of low position. Do not be conceited.
17 Do not repay anyone evil for evil. Be careful to do what is right in the eyes of everybody. 18 If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone. 19 Do not take revenge, my friends, but leave room for God's wrath, for it is written: "It is mine to avenge; I will repay," says the Lord. 20 On the contrary:
"If your enemy is hungry, feed him;
if he is thirsty, give him something to drink.
In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head." 21 Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.
NIV

The ONLY battle the Christian is called to be in is a spiritual one. Physical war is of Satan: don't be his pawn!
 
Halcyon said:
Evil according to biblical principle... not in direct violation to God's commandment...

Lets see... Thou shalt not kill... Live by the sword, die by the sword... turn the other cheek... love thy neighbour.

Seems war is against all of these biblical principles, and against the very law of God - thus follwing a leader to war is a ticket to hell. I assume you disagree?

Also, Maize makes a good point. Is it just Christian leaders that God has appointed. Or did he also make Osama bin Laden the leader of Al Queda? How about Saddam Hussain?
The commandment actually read "Thou shalt not Murder" Murder is quite different than killing. But Christians are not under the 10 commandments anymore but the Two Commandments: love God with all your being and love your neighbor as yourself. The question is: who is your neighbor?

What nation has not gone to war without thinking God is on their side? It is no different with this war for either side, nor will it change. The winner will always claim God was really on their side.

It is up to the individual Christian to decide if they can go to war or not. Self defense is an interesting question. Jesus taught people to turn the other cheek, to not resist evil, but how far can that extend? Christians took it to the point of not resisting being killed in the past. However, evil if placated will only grow. The only hopes a cheek turning Christian can have is evil will consume itself before it comes to them, and the hope that God will mete out justice.
 

BUDDY

User of Aspercreme
NetDoc said:
I feel that it is IMPORTANT to point out that we have a VOLUNTEER army. No Christian ever has to serve. It is also IMPORTANT to point out that there are many positions within our armed forces for Concientious Objectors: medicoes, communications, chaplains, etc.

In light of the scriptures given, I would offer these"

Colossians 3:12 Therefore, as God's chosen people, holy and dearly loved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience. 13 Bear with each other and forgive whatever grievances you may have against one another. Forgive as the Lord forgave you. 14 And over all these virtues put on love, which binds them all together in perfect unity.
15 Let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts, since as members of one body you were called to peace. And be thankful. 16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly as you teach and admonish one another with all wisdom, and as you sing psalms, hymns and spiritual songs with gratitude in your hearts to God. 17 And whatever you do, whether in word or deed, do it all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him. NIV

The last gives way to the wristband that I would like to own: WWJB? Who Would Jesus Bomb? Hey, I would bomb them too!

James 3:13 Who is wise and understanding among you? Let him show it by his good life, by deeds done in the humility that comes from wisdom. 14 But if you harbor bitter envy and selfish ambition in your hearts, do not boast about it or deny the truth. 15 Such "wisdom" does not come down from heaven but is earthly, unspiritual, of the devil. 16 For where you have envy and selfish ambition, there you find disorder and every evil practice.
17 But the wisdom that comes from heaven is first of all pure; then peace-loving, considerate, submissive, full of mercy and good fruit, impartial and sincere. 18 Peacemakers who sow in peace raise a harvest of righteousness. NIV

Give me that wisdom that comes from above!!!

Romans 12:14 Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse. 15 Rejoice with those who rejoice; mourn with those who mourn. 16 Live in harmony with one another. Do not be proud, but be willing to associate with people of low position. Do not be conceited.
17 Do not repay anyone evil for evil. Be careful to do what is right in the eyes of everybody. 18 If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone. 19 Do not take revenge, my friends, but leave room for God's wrath, for it is written: "It is mine to avenge; I will repay," says the Lord. 20 On the contrary:
"If your enemy is hungry, feed him;
if he is thirsty, give him something to drink.
In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head." 21 Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.
NIV

The ONLY battle the Christian is called to be in is a spiritual one. Physical war is of Satan: don't be his pawn!
I agree, the only batle that the christian is called to do by God, is the spiritual battle, but God in His great knowledge, knew that the christian has to live in a world bound by secular laws and secular government establishments, and so He commands that we obey these laws while here on earth, so long as they do not conflct with His laws. I would refer you back to the first post for the scripture on this. The passage you sight,
18 If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone.
Is a great one to point out to show that we are not always in control of whether their is peace or not. I we did have that kind of power, certainly their would be peace all of the time, but of course, and again, we live in a world ruled by man's laws and man's laws are not the perfect law of liberty that christians live under, so we are given an out in order to live by both.
 

Scuba Pete

Le plongeur avec attitude...
EEWRED said:
The passage you sight,
18 If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone.
Is a great one to point out to show that we are not always in control of whether their is peace or not.
It does not ask us to do a pre-emptive attack on a nation that has NEVER showed any aggression towards the US. Please don't use this as an escape clause. We can't control OTHERS, and so God told us to make every effort to keep peace. He also told us to turn the other cheek, to bless and not curse, as well as others.

It is WELL within our laws to become a Conscientious Objector to violence. This is far preferable to prosecuting war, thereby becoming a willing pawn for Satan.
 

BUDDY

User of Aspercreme
NetDoc said:
It does not ask us to do a pre-emptive attack on a nation that has NEVER showed any aggression towards the US. Please don't use this as an escape clause. We can't control OTHERS, and so God told us to make every effort to keep peace. He also told us to turn the other cheek, to bless and not curse, as well as others.

It is WELL within our laws to become a Conscientious Objector to violence. This is far preferable to prosecuting war, thereby becoming a willing pawn for Satan.
He also told us not to speak ill of those He has set in power. As far as your first paragraph is concerned, we could argue all day about our seperate opinions concerning how this war was started and why, so to disagree with your first few lines would be a pointless argument and I don't want to do that anymore. I am just going to have to disagree with you because of passages already sighted. I don't see that God condemns a christian for doing things here on earth, even if they are violent things, that protect the innocent and preserve good, and that is all I have to say about that. Thanks for the thoughts though, I appreciate it.
 

Scuba Pete

Le plongeur avec attitude...
EEWRED said:
He also told us not to speak ill of those He has set in power.
OK homie, trot out the verse. I think you will find it only in 1st Opinions or the like.
 
Top