Demonic possession

Possession... four questions.

1) With hundreds of thousands of demons, why are possessions so rare?

2) Do people often know that they are possessed? For instance how would I know if I was possessed?

3) Can Christians be possessed?

4) Would Satan allow his demons to possess his followers in a harmful way, or would such a thing be counterproductive to Satan's goal of leading people away from Christ?

2) Do people often know that they are possessed? For instance how would I know if I was possessed?

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Well, it depends. Really. Sometimes you just cannot know that you are a victim of possession, sometimes you do. Sometimes people voluntarily submits to the devil. In most cases, according to my knowledge, people just don't know.

3) Can Christians be possessed?

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Everyone can be possessed. As far as I know.

4) Would Satan allow his demons to possess his followers in a harmful way, or would such a thing be counterproductive to Satan's goal of leading people away from Christ?

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According to the pretty orthodox - common to catholics, orthodox and other something-around-conservative christians - theology, Satan cannot be good in any wat other than mockery. He is not granting superpowers to ones that want to be possessed, thay don't work that way .

Talos said:

Well, it depends. Really. Sometimes you just cannot know that you are a victim of possession, sometimes you do. Sometimes people voluntarily submits to the devil. In most cases, according to my knowledge, people just don't know.



Everyone can be possessed. As far as I know.



According to the pretty orthodox - common to catholics, orthodox and other something-around-conservative christians - theology, Satan cannot be good in any wat other than mockery. He is not granting superpowers to ones that want to be possessed, thay don't work that way .

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That's not what I meant by question four. I meant possession in a negative way... as in do most Christians believe that Satan doesn't let his demons possess his followers, or are even they not safe from the powers that they revere?

The reason I ask these questions is because the most I ever heard about possession as a Christian was that a few told me that self-mutilation and drugs were (or could be) a result of demonic oppression. But I guess that is a bit' different. They seemed to think it somehow did. At the time I was still fairly Christian when I heard this. When I was more hardcore/fundamentalist I never considered it and I was never taught much about demons or Satan. I was curious about what in general Christians thought of possession, as I know very little.

jasonwill2 said:

That's not what I meant by question four. I meant possession in a negative way... as in do most Christians believe that Satan doesn't let his demons possess his followers, or are even they not safe from the powers that they revere?

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if someone chooses to worship satan, he has no need to possess them because his goal is not to possess, but to blind their mind to the truth.

Before answering the questions, I´ll say I am and incredibly weird christian very far away from what mainstream christianity think and I amprobably what people call syncretic.

jasonwill2 said:

1) With hundreds of thousands of demons, why are possessions so rare?

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Demons are spirits that are unhealthy to humans. This entities favour anger, sorrow and other undesirable states of being so they can feed from them. They are generaly very dumb too.

Smart and powerful spirits use much subtle methods to influence material reality, which would be more effective because, well, they are smarter and more powerful spirits than the great great majority of weak dumb ones.

About the beliefs of MAINSTREAM christiniaty: No evil spirit can do ANYTHING without God´s consent. So possesions rarely happen.

If a possesion happens, God allowed it, and it could be for many reasons. The complete control of God over the evil forces is exemplified on Jesus, that could command demons and did so out of people.

One of the reasons why God permits possesions according to the church(catholic) is that it may be to remember us that the powers of evil are real and to make us turn more into him. In other words, God uses demons to make people turn to him to find love grace and what not so they can be happy and live eternally.

jasonwill2 said:

2) Do people often know that they are possessed? For instance how would I know if I was possessed?

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Well, I personaly think that evil spirits influencve people very often, but it is an influence that is very mild in comparison to the dramatic displays in exorcism and such. I wouldn´t say you can now for certain, but if you in general feel loving towards everyone, rarely get angry and when so is not that strong, don´t hate, have a generaly peaceful state of mind, etc you are mostly likely untouchable to wicked spirits.

Now, I do believe exceptions can happen, when very powerful demonic forces want to corrupt a person that is generaly very good but has some strong form of dualism in him and this is how I view the saints that have struggled with the demon. Strong and smart demons are required for this kind of things, not the weak dumb ones.

jasonwill2 said:

3) Can Christians be possessed?

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Absolutely! and the pwoer of Christ is around the best and most powerful exorcising tools around if you ask me. Sheer force of will and trying to pray to God done by the victim and/or friends helps a lot too IMHO.

jasonwill2 said:

3) 4) Would Satan allow his demons to possess his followers in a harmful way, or would such a thing be counterproductive to Satan's goal of leading people away from Christ?

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It depends on how you define "satan".

For starters, I don´t believe there is one single spirit that has ever had that title. People that worship satan as an agent of freedom, knowledge, etc would in my opinion not be worshipping the same deity at all that christians call satan. Satan is from a christian perspective an EVIL spirit, that DOESNT HAVE the wellbeing of humanity in his will, but the OPPOSITE.

Now when talking of powerful smart evil spirits they will do whatever best suit their goals. Sometimes this will be possesion, sometimes not, the different ays, moments, manifestations and motives carried out by each possesion would vary widely.

jasonwill2 said:

Possession... four questions.

1) With hundreds of thousands of demons, why are possessions so rare?

What leads you to believe they are rare? The demons are wicked spirit creatures who left their own proper place to cohabit with women before the Flood. (Genesis 6:1-4) No longer able to materialize as humans, they still exercise dangerous influence over people. (1 John 5:19)

2) Do people often know that they are possessed? For instance how would I know if I was possessed?

Some people may realize they are being possessed or tormented by demons. At times, mental or emotional disorders may be incorrectly viewed as demonic possession.

3) Can Christians be possessed?

The demons can and do attack Christians, as Satan did Job. (Revelation 12:12,17)But they cannot possess a Christian who looks to God for protection and is faithful to God. (Ephesians 6:10-18, James 4:7)

4) Would Satan allow his demons to possess his followers in a harmful way, or would such a thing be counterproductive to Satan's goal of leading people away from Christ?

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Certainly the demons possess their followers in harmful ways. The demons may pretend to be benefactors, but they are, in fact, cruel and merciless, just as the Bible exposes them to be. See Mark 9:17-22, for example, where the demons tried repeatedly to kill a boy. See also Luke 8:27-33, that shows the demons maliciousness, and Jesus power to expel such demons.

jasonwill2 said:

Possession... four questions.

1) With hundreds of thousands of demons, why are possessions so rare?

2) Do people often know that they are possessed? For instance how would I know if I was possessed?

3) Can Christians be possessed?

4) Would Satan allow his demons to possess his followers in a harmful way, or would such a thing be counterproductive to Satan's goal of leading people away from Christ?

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(1,2) According to the most hard core lore I've come across demons are thought to be everywhere attempting to lead people into sin, suicides, depression - you name it. The more faithful you are, the more you are thought to have them around you. I've rarely heard about any actual posessions, but people seem to think that things like spiritism would put you in danger.

(3) The view on whether Christians can be possessed seems to vary a lot. I guess the more popular conception is that God (or the angels) will protect those the believers, whereas others think no one is really safe.

(4) The common idea seems to be that Satan is uncapable of helping or not harming anyone. According to some interpretations just attempting to communicate with the Dark Side will harm you (see spiritism), but then again there's the concept of "a Pact With the Devil" which we of course all well know from popular culture. I've never actually heard anyone claiming to know anyone who would (from a Christian perspective) have done it, but I think we can count it as a part of the lore anyway.

As a bit of a sidenote, demons and possessions seem to be almost completely disregarded in modern Christianity. Even the Catholic church, which is probably the faith most widely known for exorcism and the like, put practicly no emphasis on it even if they do have their own Head Excorcist. He on the other hand seems (based on a few interviews I've seen/read) rather enthusiastic about them. Think of it as a subculture within a subculture if you like.

I am just going to start off by saying I don't believe in possessions. However, I have been exposed to the idea through my ordinations processes in Evangelical churches, and through my upbringing. So my answers are not from my personal beliefs, but by what I have learned through the years.

jasonwill2 said:

Possession... four questions.

1) With hundreds of thousands of demons, why are possessions so rare?

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Possession is a tricky question. It is not like a demon can just enter into a person. There has to be an invitation. These invitations can be simple, and even unbeknownst to the person (such as using a Ouija board).

However, many of the demons that possess a person, are not very strong. There are, like angles, a hierarchy. There are lesser demons and greater demons.

Even when one is possessed though, that does not mean that the demon will manifest itself in a noticeable way (such as in the Exorcist). They may just manifest in an illness or the like.

When one manifest the major qualities of a possession, that usually is because there are multiple demons, or very strong ones.

However, demon possessions are not too rare. If we look in more primitive societies, we see many more possessions. Even in the United States, if you know where to look, you can find many possessions as well. In fact, there are groups that spend most of their time doing exorcisms.

2) Do people often know that they are possessed? For instance how would I know if I was possessed?

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Not always. Sometimes people simply can not know until it gets serious. Many times, they will just be inflicted by simple illnesses or the like. And then the demon will leave.

Other times, one may have a suspicion, as "weird" things will occur, but it can be difficult to know completely. Many times, it will be revealed by an exorcist who can "feel" such spirits.

3) Can Christians be possessed?

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Yes.

4) Would Satan allow his demons to possess his followers in a harmful way, or would such a thing be counterproductive to Satan's goal of leading people away from Christ?

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Really, it doesn't seem as if Satan has all that much control over demons. One idea is that demons are simply beings striving to get out of hell, and will do so however possible. That is why they possess people. The reason they want to get out of hell is because of the torment, and as soon as they find that door, they go for it.

So yes, it would be possible for a demon to possess a follower of Satan, as it is not really something to do with Satan allowing anything.

jasonwill2 said:

Possession... four questions.

1) With hundreds of thousands of demons, why are possessions so rare?

2) Do people often know that they are possessed? For instance how would I know if I was possessed?

3) Can Christians be possessed?

4) Would Satan allow his demons to possess his followers in a harmful way, or would such a thing be counterproductive to Satan's goal of leading people away from Christ?

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1. Possession are not rare. They are more frequent then you think. Possession of the body look spectacular and everyone is aware of them since they are perceptible to the senses. There are perfect possessions of the highest part of the human soul which are not so perceptible and escape even exorcists.

Victims of perfect possession of reason and intellect are everywhere. Those are people who live in the habitual state of sin and are slaves to seven capital vices.

They are perfectly possessed, perfectly fooled so to speak. Satan owns them and uses them to spread his kingdom and ideology here on earth. America is a perfect example. Look how much evil is spread and accepted as normal in your country.

2. Some do know and want to stay in a state of sin. They want to sin. While others don't know. Let me explain this; these people when committed first sins knew they were sinning and felt shame but as they stayed long time in a state of sin and rationalized and justified their sinful behavior after some time perverted their conscience and therefore are culpable and are perfectly possessed.

3. Yes, why not?

4. Depends. If the person is intelligent and holds important positions of authority then Satan doesn't torture them but uses them to accomplish his plans and to spread immorality everywhere. Example are Hitler and now some people in the American Government. You can find it on You Tube. Many people call them Reptilians but they are not reptilians they are possessed individuals serving Satan's plan. Many actors and musicians in Hollywood are possessed.

If on the other hand if there is not much use of the person; demons will much more torment this useless individual. Make him sin more to increase his punishment. The more sins and mortal sins one accumulates the more punishment increases and demons know this. They are very good theologians.

jasonwill2 said:

Possession... four questions.

1) With hundreds of thousands of demons, why are possessions so rare?

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How do you know possession is so rare?

2) Do people often know that they are possessed? For instance how would I know if I was possessed?

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A person may not always know they are possessed. I would say that someone like you who is into Satanism would not necessarily know because Satan has your full cooperation at this point. Now if you were to seriously try to reject the darkness and head toward Christ you would definitely know and you would come under heavy attack and would be powerless to protect yourself.

3) Can Christians be possessed?

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No, true Christians who have the Holy Spirit residing in them cannot be possessed by a demonic spirit.

4) Would Satan allow his demons to possess his followers in a harmful way, or would such a thing be counterproductive to Satan's goal of leading people away from Christ?

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Satan is a malevolent being and as such he may randomly harm his followers whether it's counterproductive or not simply because he is so deranged and his ultimate goal is to destroy anyway.

Samnes said:

[A few sections I will quote separately to make clear the parts I am talking about, this quote is not what Samnes said, but simply making it possible to easily find his post. What he said is in the quotes below:]

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They are perfectly possessed, perfectly fooled so to speak. Satan owns them and uses them to spread his kingdom and ideology here on earth. America is a perfect example. Look how much evil is spread and accepted as normal in your country.

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To spread his kingdom and ideologies? Are you referring to specific ideologies, or anything contrary to Yahweh's nature in general?

2. Some do know and want to stay in a state of sin. They want to sin. While others don't know. Let me explain this; these people when committed first sins knew they were sinning and felt shame but as they stayed long time in a state of sin and rationalized and justified their sinful behavior after some time perverted their conscience and therefore are culpable and are perfectly possessed.

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Would this be equivalent to a marred conscious, or is this different then that? Like how a soldier becomes jaded to death the more he sees it, a sinner becomes jaded to sin the more he sins? Or do you mean in a more literal way of demons working to possess them? I'm slightly confused on that detail.

4. Depends. If the person is intelligent and holds important positions of authority then Satan doesn't torture them but uses them to accomplish his plans and to spread immorality everywhere. Example are Hitler and now some people in the American Government. You can find it on You Tube. Many people call them Reptilians but they are not reptilians they are possessed individuals serving Satan's plan. Many actors and musicians in Hollywood are possessed.

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I can find it on youtube? No offense, but most videos I see on youtube that go in this vein of thought are of conspiracy-type nature. Out of curiosity (just to be clear), do you believe in a consciously planned Satanic conspiracy, or that Satan is working "behind the scenes" in people to bring them closer to sin?



[My overall response:]

I had heard once that there was x so many angels that existed, and since a third of them fell down with Satan, that it could be calculated how many demons there was. I think the number was somewhere in the 100's of millions. Does anyone know anything about this?

As a bit of a sidenote, demons and possessions seem to be almost completely disregarded in modern Christianity. Even the Catholic church, which is probably the faith most widely known for exorcism and the like, put practicly no emphasis on it even if they do have their own Head Excorcist. He on the other hand seems (based on a few interviews I've seen/read) rather enthusiastic about them. Think of it as a subculture within a subculture if you like.

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I've noticed that Russian Orthodox churches have exorcisms as part of the process of taking people into the Church. You are even asked to turn to the left and spit on the devil. symbolically though I don't think anyone hocks a loogie in Church at that point they just make a spit noise.

Exorcism - OrthodoxWiki

Mehr Licht said:

I've noticed that Russian Orthodox churches have exorcisms as part of the process of taking people into the Church. You are even asked to turn to the left and spit on the devil. symbolically though I don't think anyone hocks a loogie in Church at that point they just make a spit noise.

Exorcism - OrthodoxWiki

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To the left? Reminds me of yesterday when the owner of my workplace, who is Chinese, asked when she saw me write with my left hand "isn't that the wrong hand, this [points to the right hand] is the right and this [points to left hand] is the wrong." Maybe it was a cultural thing... but I tried to explain it has to do with left vs right side of the brain.

Anyway, point is, the left seems to be very symbolic...even as LHP vs RHP, but to include it in exorcism? I never heard of the left direction ever being used in anything like that.

Left vs Right have certain symbolic associations in the Christian tradition. I've read that the Greeks don't do the turn and spit ritual and that's more a Russian thing though. Maybe if there is an Eastern Orthodox person around they could confirm that ? I know they definitely said this at the Church I was at which was Russian in origin.

Mehr Licht said:

Left vs Right have certain symbolic associations in the Christian tradition. I've read that the Greeks don't do the turn and spit ritual and that's more a Russian thing though. Maybe if there is an Eastern Orthodox person around they could confirm that ? I know they definitely said this at the Church I was at which was Russian in origin.

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I actually mentioned this to my step-grandmother and she brought up a point... when it says that someone is sitting "on the right hand of god" is the person on god's right, or the observer's right?

Though directional technicalities aside, that part about spitting to the left reminds me of folk traditions for some reason. Not that is bad or anything, I just didn't expect that in any 'modern' Churches, but then again I have no idea how modernized or not parts of Siberia might be.

But this is starting to get off-subject.