Original sin

Nakosis said:

That's the OT definition of sin. The concept of sin created by the Judeans.

The Greek concept of sin is missing the mark. Really just ignorance of the truth. Adam and Eve knew what was true. The Serpent poisoned them so they no longer knew and doubted the truth. Man is born ignorant of the truth.

Man would not be free to choose if he knew the truth. You can choose to believe a lie because of your ignorance.

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which was the lie of the serpent? cause everything it said seem true.

God didn´t want humanity to achieve godhood in that myth, they learned good from evil so they achieved knowledge.

Sheila said:

There are a lot of people who don't know what original sin is or what the root of sin is. Original sin (very first sin) of mankind was disobedience to God. He said don't eat the fruit and they did (Eve and Adam). Eating the fruit gave them self-awareness (root of sin) (Genesis 3:11), which in turn caused self-absorption to the point that, in some cases, the creation has become idolaters of self and become more important than the creator.
Jesus said if thy eye offends thee, pluck it out. Eye being lusts of the eye, which in turn is me, me, me--which is "I".
Y'shua Bless You

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Yes self awareness (not kissing god's bum) is a sin because god is an arrogant, self absorbed jerk, if the bible is to be believed as "god's word"...
Oddly enough, we are expected to accept original sin, but sin only exists because god allowed the devil/satan/serpent to enter the garden and tempt A&E.
But yes, it's ALL man's fault...god is just a poor consequence of our action.

Beyond all else, god is so powerful he can create everything that is, yet lowly mankind can scr*w it up....? Seriously?!?

Tathagata said:

Original sin is one of the fundamentally, and blatant flaws of Christian philosophy. The idea that the descendents of one man should be born guilty with original sin because of the first sin done by their ancestor. There's no legit reason why anyone should be considered a born sinner, especially not because of Adam. You can be a born sinner if you've yet to commit a sin. Last I checked, being born's not a sin.

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I sure hope not but I forgive myself.

Me Myself said:

which was the lie of the serpent? cause everything it said seem true.

God didn´t want humanity to achieve godhood in that myth, they learned good from evil so they achieved knowledge.

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The serpent acted at the behest of God. The serpent confused them as to what was the truth. They believed they were no longer perfect so hid themselves from each other and tried to hide from God as well.

Even though the serpent did God's will, man blames the serpent. It wasn't nice.
However it's our ignorance that causes us to be creative. Kicking the baby birds out of the nest is the only way they'll learn to fly. Still seems mean to the baby birds.

Garden of Eden everything is perfect. What need is there to change anything? We were given doubt, fear, ignorance and kicked out of the nest. Sin was necessary so we could fashion our own truth. Sin was the necessary catalyst for our own creativity.

Sin isn't only "evil" sin is good and evil. Sin allows good. God is beyond good and evil but from our perspective God is good and evil.

The lie is everything that is not the light. Which is everything we know. Not that it is all bad. Sin is separation from the light. Ignorance of it which allows good and evil.

Sheila said:

We are born into sin with the ability to chose. We are sinless until we lose innocence and become self-aware (root of sin)--starts the me, me, me, cycle--leads to lust, greed, envy, etc.

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Thank you

Nakosis said:

Even though the serpent did God's will...

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That's the problem right there. It's not about who blamed who, who ate what first, who was tempted by what, but whose will it was to be tempted in a place that was supposed to be perfection.
In this story, god is the "evil" do-er. God is the ultimate reason why sin exists. God is ultimately responsible for the fall of man. Yet god passes that punishment (eternal hell) onto man knowing that, if tempted by god via satan, man would fall.
And people worship this god?
Wow.... the biggest set up in human history and people fall for it.
Sad.:faint:

connermt said:

That's the problem right there. It's not about who blamed who, who ate what first, who was tempted by what, but whose will it was to be tempted in a place that was supposed to be perfection.
In this story, god is the "evil" do-er. God is the ultimate reason why sin exists. God is ultimately responsible for the fall of man. Yet god passes that punishment (eternal hell) onto man knowing that, if tempted by god via satan, man would fall.
And people worship this god?
Wow.... the biggest set up in human history and people fall for it.
Sad.:faint:

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The Abrahamic branch of theology is pretty screwed-up. I suspect Moses borrowed from Egyptian beliefs to give the escaped slaves a better religion/God. He probably meant well. They needed something to keep them a coherent group.

However it was handed down without a lot of wisdom/understanding to become an obedience the "Word of God". Kind of what is surprising is how quickly these writings became accepted as having God's authority. However they were just a group of slaves. Probably not greatly educated or experienced in much except hard work and obedience.

Sheila said:

Eating the fruit gave them self-awareness (root of sin) (Genesis 3:11), which in turn caused self-absorption to the point that, in some cases, the creation has become idolaters of self and become more important than the creator.

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I think you have a chicken before the egg problem here. You claim that A&E sinned before they ate the fruit, by disobeying God. The fruit gave them self-awareness, which you then claim is the root of sin. How were A&E able to sin pre-selfawareness, if they did not have the root of sin yet?

Sheila said:

Jesus said if thy eye offends thee, pluck it out. Eye being lusts of the eye, which in turn is me, me, me--which is "I".
Y'shua Bless You

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You find meaning in the fact that eye and I sound the same, yet in other languages the parallel is not there. The many "truths" that people like to glean from accidents of similarity in language tend just to be the arbitrary pattern seeking that our species are so prone to, and not truths at all.

Nakosis said:

The Abrahamic branch of theology is pretty screwed-up. I suspect Moses borrowed from Egyptian beliefs to give the escaped slaves a better religion/God. He probably meant well. They needed something to keep them a coherent group.

However it was handed down without a lot of wisdom/understanding to become an obedience the "Word of God". Kind of what is surprising is how quickly these writings became accepted as having God's authority. However they were just a group of slaves. Probably not greatly educated or experienced in much except hard work and obedience.

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:seesaw:

Screwed up is right. But people continue to flock to it. Amazing.