Jehovah's Witneses

Pegg said:

there is only one right way to use blood according to the scriptures:

to Noah;
Genesis 9:1 And God went on to bless Noah and his sons ...3 Every moving animal that is alive may serve as food for YOU. As in the case of green vegetation, I do give it all to YOU. 4 Only flesh with its soul—its blood—YOU must not eat.

Mosaic Law
Leviticus 3:17 “‘It is a statute to time indefinite for YOUR generations, in all YOUR dwelling places: YOU must not eat any fat or any blood at all.’”

Leviticus 7:26“‘And YOU must not eat any blood in any places where YOU dwell, whether that of fowl or that of beast.

Leviticus 17:13 “‘As for any man of the sons of Israel or some alien resident who is residing as an alien in YOUR midst who in hunting catches a wild beast or a fowl that may be eaten, he must in that case pour its blood out and cover it with dust.

Deuteronomy 12:16 Only the blood YOU must not eat. On the earth you should pour it out as water.

Deuteronomy 12:23 Simply be firmly resolved not to eat the blood, because the blood is the soul and you must not eat the soul with the flesh.


the the Christians; Acts 15:20 but to write them to abstain from things polluted by idols and from fornication and from what is strangled and from blood.

Acts 15:29 to keep abstaining from things sacrificed to idols and from blood and from things strangled and from fornication. If YOU carefully keep yourselves from these things, YOU will prosper. Good health to YOU!”

Acts 21:25 As for the believers from among the nations, we have sent out, rendering our decision that they should keep themselves from what is sacrificed to idols as well as from blood and what is strangled and from fornication.”


to abstain from something means to keep free of it under all circumstances. It goes beyond just 'eating'... you would not be abstaining if you put it into your body via another method such as through the veins.

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I'm sorry but I think you are reading too much into the above verses. They say not to EAT blood, or take part of any "pagan" religous rites that involved blood. A blood transfusion is simply a medical procedure that has nothing to do with religion in any way, shape, or form. Why would god care about someone getting a blood transfusion? I also find it humorous that fat is not to be injested at all either. Are you telling me all JW's stick to a strict non-fat diet or they're not going to be saved?

Friend of Bill W said:

No, you've clicked on the wrong link or something, it's called:

Associated Jehovah's Witnesses For Reform On Blood

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lol

they say they are associated but they are not. They are against the Watchtowers stance on blood and they promote taking blood and giving blood and using blood.

the funny thing is that even doctors and hospitals are now looking at diminishing their blood use due to the better/safter alternatives...yet these guys on this website are still promoting the use of blood.

they are a little behind the times,

Pegg said:

i will continue to trust what the Watchtower have to say on the matter and will abide by their stance.

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Pegg, have the Watchtower ever changed doctrine before? They weren't right about the organ transplant issue were they? That was banned, it was called cannibalism, but then they allowed it.

Remember, transfused blood acts just like an organ transplant; it's not 'consumed'; remembering that if you only transfused blood and provided no nutriment, then the patient would die of starvation.

And not only that, conscious matter or not, ALL the separate parts of blood are allowed to be transfused into a JW; just not whole blood. This policy has evolved into the current policy you have today; it changed over time; but the Bible hasn't changed, has it? New light eh?

Now, do you really have to rely on the Watchtower? Didn't God give you a brain and a conscious? Do you really think God wants mothers to die during childbirth, leaving a child without a mother, (and this has happened) because she refused a whole blood transfusion on the interpretation of scripture by the Watchtower?

Does that even feel right to you? God gave you those feelings, Pegg.

And have the Watchtower ever been wrong before?

Friend of Bill W said:

Hey, that's cheating, 'cos I think that's Buddhism!

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I couldn't find a "thou shalt not bug me about your beliefs" verse.

Pegg said:

l
the funny thing is that even doctors and hospitals are now looking at diminishing their blood use due to the better/safter alternatives...yet these guys on this website are still promoting the use of blood.

they are a little behind the times,

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Pegg, a child died in the UK last year after refusing a blood transplant. Yes, we have bloodless surgery and other techniques; but these are NOT an answer to every life threatening situation.

There are times when there is no substitute for a whole blood transfusion.

Friend of Bill W said:

Pegg, have the Watchtower ever changed doctrine before? They weren't right about the organ transplant issue were they? That was banned, it was called cannibalism, but then they allowed it.

Remember, transfused blood acts just like an organ transplant; it's not 'consumed'; remembering that if you only transfused blood and provided no nutriment, then the patient would die of starvation.

And not only that, conscious matter or not, ALL the separate parts of blood are allowed to be transfused into a JW; just not whole blood. This policy has evolved into the current policy you have today; it changed over time; but the Bible hasn't changed, has it? New light eh?

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it took the apostles 13 years to come to a decision on circumcision because gentile believers were a completely knew situation for the jewish christians to deal with. So it was with blood when it was being used as a form of medicine. It was a new situation and it took time to adjust to it.

Nothing in the bible that we read has changed nor will it, the only thing that changes is how we understand the verses fit in with God and his purposes or his standards.

Friend of Bill W said:

Now, do you really have to rely on the Watchtower? Didn't God give you a brain and a conscious?

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did the early christians really have to rely on Jesus or the apostles? Did the jews really have to rely on the writings of Moses to know what Gods laws were? Did Noahs family really have to rely on Noah for infromation about the coming flood?

God has always used a channel of communication and I believe he is using the Watchtower as his channel today. I believe this because they adhere to his word and they put into practice what they preach... for that God blesses and uses them.... he has never used people who refuse to uphold his laws because its his laws that he wants mankind to obey.

Friend of Bill W said:

Do you really think God wants mothers to die during childbirth, leaving a child without a mother, (and this has happened) because she refused a whole blood transfusion on the interpretation of scripture by the Watchtower?

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of course not, but blood transfusions to save life is not the answer. Its a short term way to further disregard Gods laws in an attempt to save yourself. The fact is that God will save mankind in his own way and time. As long as we have sin and death in the world, we will always be struggling with life and death issues.

Friend of Bill W said:

Pegg, a child died in the UK last year after refusing a blood transplant. Yes, we have bloodless surgery and other techniques; but these are NOT an answer to every life threatening situation.

There are times when there is no substitute for a whole blood transfusion.

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and sometimes blood transfusions themselves are not an answer to every life threatening situation

sometimes the blood transfusion itself kills the patient because the body rejects the blood which is why immune suppressors have to be used, then huge doses of antibiotics so that viruses dont kill you

And how about all the patients who contract deadly virus's through tainted blood? Dont hear to much about them, do we.

Pegg said:

and sometimes blood transfusions themselves are not an answer to every life threatening situation

sometimes the blood transfusion itself kills the patient because the body rejects the blood which is why immune suppressors have to be used, then huge doses of antibiotics so that viruses dont kill you

And how about all the patients who contract deadly virus's through tainted blood? Dont hear to much about them, do we.

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Millions of Americans receive blood transfusions every year, because it works. I religous belief that tells its followers to refuse proven medical treatments in the 21st century is deplorable. The catholic church supressing the use of birth control in Africa were AIDS runs rampant is deplorable. You wonder why people dislike your and other religions? That's simple, it leads to irrational and dangerous behavior.

Pegg said:

and sometimes blood transfusions themselves are not an answer to every life threatening situation

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But non-JWs are open to both options. You seem to be missing the point.

Pegg said:

sometimes the blood transfusion itself kills the patient because the body rejects the blood which is why immune suppressors have to be used, then huge doses of antibiotics so that viruses dont kill you

And how about all the patients who contract deadly virus's through tainted blood? Dont hear to much about them, do we.

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No procedure works 100% of the time. It's absurd to reject treatments that are overwhelming effective because sometimes they don't work. You may as well never do anything in any area of life by that standard. Better not go check the mail because you might die from lightning or drive-by shooting or meteor.

JustWondering said:

Millions of Americans receive blood transfusions every year, because it works. I religous belief that tells its followers to refuse proven medical treatments in the 21st century is deplorable. The catholic church supressing the use of birth control in Africa were AIDS runs rampant is deplorable. You wonder why people dislike your and other religions? That's simple, it leads to irrational and dangerous behavior.

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whether it works or not is not the issue for us

the issue is that taking blood from another creature into our own body is against Gods law. it that simple.

None of the verses you cited unless horribly misinterpreted could be taken to mean that blood transfusions are bad and forbidden. Of course if the bible actually made sense there wouldn't be an endless number of sects and cults based on limitless interpretations. Why don't you try interpretating what the bible says and means for yourself? Why are people so afraid to think for themselves? Thats why I despise organized religion, it transforms people into mindless sheep.

Half my family are JW's and I recall having attended as a visitor, the Kingdom Hall numerous times mostly for social and family reasons when I was a Christian. Most of the issues happen to be over scriptural differences and interpretations that notably swayed from the mainstream* view. Also claims of exclusivity and being the only true religion didnt help matters overall.

I dont believe in scriptures, God, or Jesus anymore so its presently pointless to use scripture as any kind of lever to sway any arguement in my favor. All Moot.

For what it's worth, I don't dislike Jehovah Witnesses any more or less than anyone else. Being free from Christianity, I presently view JW's as a group embued with their own unique interpretation of things as they see it and nothing more.

*Like Jesus being the Archangel Michael. Jesus's return in 1914. Numerous Camping style doomsday perdictions. All differing from mainstream view.

Prostelyzation

CarrieBethplus4 said:

For Jehovah's Witnesses opposers, WHY?? Opinions welcome, but I want people to be able to use scriptures to back their argument. I have yet talked to someone who can give me good points.

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I'm polite when Jehovah's Witnesses come by. I once told them that I was curious to learn more about what they believe. I made it clear that I'm LDS. I invited them in. To the immediate left is a dining room table that was full of Bibles and Book of Mormons and papers, because my wife was teaching early morning Mormon seminary to High School students.

I pointed out the table to emphasize that I am a practicing Mormon and my inviting them in was out of a desire to learn and nothing more. I learned a few interesting points from the conversation. They came back a couple of times. I continued to bring up that I am a devout Mormon whenever we talked. On one visit, they asked me if I wanted to read something. I then made what I intended as a polite offer, that they take a copy of the Book of Mormon to read. The woman's face changed immediately. She looked pale and left as quickly as she could. They never came back.

I like Jehovah's Witnesses like I like anyone else. I get the feeling that there is something in the culture or teachings that makes them afraid to discuss anything that is not in their script.

Pegg said:

its actually a conscience matter. the individual JW must decide for themselves what they will and wont accept.

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For themselves and for their minor children.

If you want to kill yourself with your beliefs, that would be unfortunate but within your right as an adult to self-determination.

Where I have real problems with is when a person kills someone else, including their children, with their beliefs.

I am strongly opposed to any religious teaching that kills children. And I think that in a conflict between religious beliefs and the life of a child, protection of that life should take precedence.

... and that's what I don't like about the Jehovah's Witnesses.

Well, there's other stuff as well: mainly, I've heard disturbing things from ex-members about how they were shunned by their friends and family when they left the church, but the blood transfusion thing is the big one for me.

What I find interesting is their "slave class" that serve(d) as their ruling class is or has died off. I'm curious has to how they will reinterpret this fundamental decree.

I see no reason to dislike JW's. I have quite a lot of friends from other sects, and I don't hate them. We may have different beliefs/principles about our respective religions, but it doesn't mean that I should dislike or avoid them because of those differences.

I also have no problems with JWs as individuals; I know quite a few from the line of work I do and I did get friendly with one who was more interested in evangelising, rather than being friends; and he stopped visiting after I informed him I just wasn't interested in being a JW.

But as an organisation, I find it extremely controlling, I have issues with the disfellowshipping and the blood doctrine, and a good test of a cult is what happens when an individual leaves the organisation.

You don't have to do much googling to find many websites filled with negative stories of their experiences with being in the JW organisation.

Coroner urges Jehovah's Witnesses to review blood transfusion ban

A coroner has called on the leadership of the Jehovah's Witnesses to review the ban on blood transfusions after a death under circumstances he described as "graphically illustrating the consequence of rigid adherence to that doctrine."

The Jehovah's Witness, who died of post-surgery complications, would likely have survived had she accepted a blood transfusion. That was the pronouncement of coroner Rod Chandler on the death of Judith Louise, 49, a woman from Glenorchy, Tasmania, Australia.

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Coroner urges Jehovah's Witnesses to review blood transfusion ban

"I desire mercy, not sacrifice" Matt 9.13

Pegg said:

whether it works or not is not the issue for us

the issue is that taking blood from another creature into our own body is against Gods law. it that simple.

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So, God's law is that you're supposed to die even when your life could be preserved? Weird.