The difference between a living person and a dead person

muhammad_isa · Dec 15, 2011

Pegg said:
If we go to a better place and if we go to be with God, it would not be logical that the bibles teaching of a resurrection to physical life on earth is necessary.

Who said anything about 'life on earth'? Almighty God can create as many "planet earth's" as He wants .. an infinite number .. this planet earth we live on today is finite (the whole universe, in fact) .. it will eventually end, and there will be a reckoning. We will all find ourselves with "new bodies", which won't necessarily be exactly as they are now, but we will recognise them
ie. we can smile, move our hand, head etc. :yes:

Pegg said:
The resurrection is to bring people back to life..

Ye-e-es .. but arguing over 'the precise mechanism' won't really help us to understand how to please God right here and now, which, after all, is the whole point of religious knowledge, is it not?

muhammad_isa · Dec 15, 2011

URAVIP2ME said:
Do you think there is a difference between just following the 'letter of the law' and ignoring the 'spirit of the law' ?

Natrally, our intention for obeying or upholding 'the law' is very important
ie. our sincerity to God

It does not follow that because some of us might be hypocrites, and twist things out of self-interest, that 'the law' is no longer needed or valid.

chinu · Dec 15, 2011

peacecrusader888 said:
20111115.0020

What is the difference between a living person who is attending a wake (nakikipaglamay), and a dead person who is in the coffin and being waked upon (pinaglalamayan)?

Which is between YOU and The GRANDFATHER of your GRANDFATHER.

Protester · Dec 15, 2011

muhammad_isa said:
You complicate things unnecessarily .. it's clear from studying the OT, NT & Qur'an that there is our physical existence and a 'higher' spiritual one.
ie. soul & spirit are interchangable in this context
We do not spiritually die .. our souls are eternal as is Almighty God

"Surely! We belong to God, and to Him we will return!"

I gave--at least from a Christian point of view--the difference between spirit and the physical. No, I certainly don't believe in the annihilation of the soul, in that we perhaps agree, some sects, do believe in that, but most Christians don't.

An excerpt from a short monograph,

For those who refuse to accept God's salvation, physical death and spiritual death culminate in the second death (Revelation 20:14). This eternal death is not annihilation, as some have taught, but is a conscious, eternal punishment for sins in the lake of fire, described as being separated from the presence of the Lord (2 Thessalonians 1:9).

--- How is physical death related to spiritual death?

Pegg · Dec 15, 2011

muhammad_isa said:
Who said anything about 'life on earth'? Almighty God can create as many "planet earth's" as He wants .. an infinite number .. this planet earth we live on today is finite (the whole universe, in fact) .. it will eventually end, and there will be a reckoning. We will all find ourselves with "new bodies", which won't necessarily be exactly as they are now, but we will recognise them
ie. we can smile, move our hand, head etc. :yes:

Ye-e-es .. but arguing over 'the precise mechanism' won't really help us to understand how to please God right here and now, which, after all, is the whole point of religious knowledge, is it not?

we dont need to argue over the mechanism because the bible accounts are very clear in how a person is resurrected.

2 Kings 13:20 After that E‧li′sha died and they buried him. And there were marauding bands of the Mo′ab‧ites that regularly came into the land at the coming in of the year. 21 And it came about that as they were burying a man, why, here they saw the marauding band. At once they threw the man into E‧li′shas burial place and went off. When the man touched the bones of E‧li′sha, he immediately came to life and stood upon his feet

John 11:43 And when he had said these things, he cried out with a loud voice: Laz′a‧rus, come on out! 44 The [man] that had been dead came out with his feet and hands bound with wrappings, and his countenance was bound about with a cloth. Jesus said to them: Loose him and let him go.

Acts 9;36 But in Jop′pa there was a certain disciple named Tab′i‧tha, which, when translated, means Dor′cas. ... 37 But in those days she happened to fall sick and die. So they bathed her and laid her in an upper chamber. ... 40 But Peter put everybody outside and, bending his knees, he prayed, and, turning to the body, he said: Tab′i‧tha, rise! She opened her eyes and, as she caught sight of Peter, she sat up. 41 Giving her his hand, he raised her up, and he called the holy ones and the widows and presented her alive

Resurrection to heavenly life is only available to those whom God chooses. Jesus was the first man resurrected in spirit... all those before him have remained in the dust awaiting a resurrection and for them, it will be just as it was in the past... a resurrection to physical life on earth.

URAVIP2ME · Dec 15, 2011

muhammad_isa said:
Natrally, our intention for obeying or upholding 'the law' is very important
ie. our sincerity to God
It does not follow that because some of us might be hypocrites, and twist things out of self-interest, that 'the law' is no longer needed or valid.

Weren't the Pharisees religiously sincere?

Jesus upheld the law which allowed Not just for the 'letter of the law' but also allowed for the 'spirit of the law' which includes having the quality of mercy.

Jesus gave a new law or new commandment to keep at John [13vs34,35]
We should all show [obey] having Christ-like love for others.

muhammad_isa · Dec 16, 2011

Pegg said:
we dont need to argue over the mechanism because the bible accounts are very clear in how a person is resurrected.

Quoting willy-nilly from Scriptures is not illuminating .. the verses lose their context..

Pegg said:
Resurrection to heavenly life is only available to those whom God chooses.

Well, is there a sect / creed which doesn't believe that?

Pegg said:
..it will be just as it was in the past... a resurrection to physical life on earth.

So where are all these 'men of old' now, then? :no:

muhammad_isa · Dec 16, 2011

URAVIP2ME said:
Weren't the Pharisees religiously sincere?
Jesus upheld the law which allowed Not just for the 'letter of the law' but also allowed for the 'spirit of the law' which includes having the quality of mercy.

Yes .. interpretation of the law is important, as is the way it's implemented.

eg. cut off the hand of the thief

Interpretation 1: any adult who's caught stealing should have their hand cut off

Interpretation 2: any adult who continually steals (ie. doesn't sincerely repent) should have their hand cut off :candle:

URAVIP2ME said:
Jesus gave a new law or new commandment to keep at John [13vs34,35]
We should all show [obey] having Christ-like love for others.

This is not a new law .. "nobody will have a true faith unless they wish for others what they wish for themselves"

..it's a matter of how you apply it .. such as only applying it to your own tribe or relgious sect, for example .. as opposed to the whole of humankind!

URAVIP2ME · Dec 16, 2011

muhammad_isa said:
This is not a new law .. "nobody will have a true faith unless they wish for others what they wish for themselves"
..it's a matter of how you apply it .. such as only applying it to your own tribe or relgious sect, for example .. as opposed to the whole of humankind!

Jesus NEW commandment of John [13vs34,35] is that you love one another; just as I [Jesus] have loved you, that you also love one another. By this [love] all will know that you are my disciples, if you have love among yourselves.

By obeying and spreading the good news of God's kingdom to the most distant parts of the earth [Matthew 24v14; Acts 1v8] wouldn't that show applying that love to all nations on earth or the whole of mankind ?

URAVIP2ME · Dec 16, 2011

muhammad_isa said:
So where are all these 'men of old' now, then?

Jesus taught [John 3v13] that No one had ascended to heaven.
Acts [2v34] mentions Not even King David ascended.

The promise God made to Abraham was that all families and all nations of earth would be blessed. According to Hebrews [11vs 13,39] none of those faithful 'men of old' mentioned in chapter eleven saw the fulfillment of God's promise to Abraham.

Since none had ascended as Jesus said, then everyone that lived after Adam, between Genesis and Malachi, and died before Jesus died, are still asleep in the common grave of mankind [sheol] awaiting an earthly resurrection during Jesus messianic 1000-year reign over earth when all families and all nations will be blessed with curing and healing of the nations.- Rev. 22v2.

Thief · Dec 17, 2011

Did I miss it?...did anyone answer this particular detail?

Thief said:
Nay to all postings so far....

The disciple said....
'let me linger here a few days, as my father has passed....'

And He said....
'Follow Me...and let the dead bury the dead.'

Obviously there is a 'quality' not yet addressed.

muhammad_isa · Dec 17, 2011

URAVIP2ME said:
..everyone that lived after Adam, between Genesis and Malachi, and died before Jesus died, are still asleep in the common grave of mankind [sheol] awaiting an earthly resurrection during Jesus messianic 1000-year reign over earth..

We ALL have to 'go to the grave'!
ie. die
..unless you can show me otherwise, which I'm sure you can't..

so .. your theories about JW's living forever (without dying) in this life is bunkum

URAVIP2ME · Dec 17, 2011

muhammad_isa said:
We ALL have to 'go to the grave'!
ie. die
..unless you can show me otherwise, which I'm sure you can't..
so .. your theories about JW's living forever (without dying) in this life is bunkum

Absolutely we all go to the grave [sheol] when we die.
It's what is taught about what we do when we go to the grave [sheol].
Christendom teaches there is life in the grave [sheol]
Jesus taught there is unconscious sleep in the grave [sheol] -John 11vs11-14.

Christendom teaches soul immortality that the soul does not die.
Scripture teaches the soul dies -[Ezekiel 18vs4,20]
Christendom teaches the soul can't be destroyed.
Scripture teaches the soul can be destroyed.-[ Acts 3v23].

Matthew chapter 25 is not theory.
Matthew [25 vs 31,32,46] teaches the living sheep-like people can gain everlasting life starting at that time frame.
They are Not dead sheep awaiting a resurrection from sheol [hell],
but they are alive and living on earth at the time of Jesus involving himself into mankind's affairs.
Don't the people of Revelation [7v14] come out of the great tribulation ? -Matthew 24v21

Jesus time of divine involvement is when Jesus, as Prince of Peace,
ushers in global Peace on Earth toward men of goodwill at the start of Jesus messianic 1000-year reign over earth

The earthly resurrection, on a paradisaic earth, does not occur before Jesus millennial-long day of reigning over earth. Future resurrection.- Acts 24v15

The separating of living people on earth of Matthew [25v32] is ahead of us.
Those living goat-like people placed at Jesus left hand, so to speak, of disfavor will be executed by the words from Jesus mouth according to Isaiah 11vs3,4;
Revelation 19vs11,15; Jeremiah 25vs31-33.

So, Scripture is talking about the life to come. [future]
Life to come during Jesus messianic 1000-year reign over earth.
Life by being one of the living sheep-like people of Mathew chapter 25.
Life by being one of Jesus 'brothers' resurrected to heaven. [Rev 20v6]
Or life by being one of the sleeping dead that Jesus will resurrect on a paradisaic earth during his thousand-year reign over earth.

muhammad_isa · Dec 18, 2011

URAVIP2ME said:
The earthly resurrection, on a paradisaic earth, does not occur before Jesus millennial-long day of reigning over earth.

Please see this thread -> http://http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/2730055-post309.html <-

URAVIP2ME · Dec 18, 2011

muhammad_isa said:
Please see this thread -> http://http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/2730055-post309.html <-

I have an old computer and would not connect to ^above^ link.

Jesus 'brothers' [Matthew 25v40; 1st Cor 15v50] are part of the first or earlier resurrection mentioned at Rev. 20v6; 14v4; 5vs9,10.

They reign with Christ for a thousand years as kings and priest over earthly subjects. As kings they will take care of governmental responsibilities of earthly subjects, and as priests take care of spiritual responsibilities of earthly subjects because Jesus will have subjects from sea to sea. Psalm 72v8.

muhammad_isa · Dec 19, 2011

URAVIP2ME said:
I have an old computer and would not connect to ^above^ link.

My mistake .. there seems to be 2 of 'http' :sorry1:
..it should have been :-

-> http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/2730055-post309.html <-

Protester · Dec 20, 2011

URAVIP2ME may I point out, ...Soul Sleep, and the State of the Dead, while this is not an overly long commentary, there is an even shorter one here,

Soul sleep is a belief that after a person dies, his/her soul sleeps until the resurrection and final judgment. The concept of soul sleep is not biblical. When the Bible describes a person sleeping in relation to death (Luke 8:52; 1 Corinthians 15:6), it does not mean literal sleep. Sleeping is just a way to describe death because a dead body appears to be asleep. The moment we die, we face the judgment of God (Hebrews 9:27). For believers, to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord (2 Corinthians 5:6-8; Philippians 1:23). For unbelievers, death means everlasting punishment in hell (Luke 16:22-23)

excerpt from, What does the Bible say about soul sleep?

Don't be :sleep: :sad4: read the the above verses.:yes:

URAVIP2ME · Dec 20, 2011

Protester said:
URAVIP2ME may I point out, ...Soul Sleep, and the State of the Dead, while this is not an overly long commentary, there is an even shorter one here,
excerpt from, What does the Bible say about soul sleep?
Don't be :sleep: :sad4: read the the above verses.:yes:

Can't be everlasting punishment in hell because the biblical hell [sheol] ends.

Please notice that everyone in the Bible's hell is 'delivered up' [resurrected] according to Revelation 20 vs13,14.

It is only vacant hell that is cast empty into second death.

Didn't Jesus teach the dead sleep? John 11vs11-14
Don't the Psalms teach the dead sleep?
Psalms 6v5; 13v3; 115v17; 146v4
Didn't Solomon believe the dead know nothing. Ecc 9v5 ?

URAVIP2ME · Dec 20, 2011

muhammad_isa said:
My mistake .. there seems to be 2 of 'http' :sorry1:
..it should have been :-
-> http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/2730055-post309.html <-

Jesus would only speak to the crowds in parables or illustrations [Mt 13vs34,35]

The parable or illustration of the rich man and Lazarus is a parable or illustration.

muhammad_isa · Dec 21, 2011

URAVIP2ME said:
The parable or illustration of the rich man and Lazarus is a parable or illustration.

Yes i understand what a parable is..

34 All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto
them:

35 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, I will open my mouth in parables;
I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world.

36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him,
saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field.

37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;

38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of
the wicked one;

39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the
angels.

40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.

41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that
offend, and them which do iniquity;

42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear,
let him hear.

- Matthew 13 (KJV) -

So perhaps you could explain the above? Jesus (peace be with) EXPLAINED the meaning!

"Who have ears to hear, let them hear!" The destruction of a soul(spirit) is eternal torment .. hell!

We will all find out the truth when we die :yes:

The difference between a living person and a dead person

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