• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

How many Christian Churches are there?

Terrywoodenpic

Oldest Heretic
I think we Catholics are the only ones who are like that. MAybe ORthodox? Not sure.

But unlike the rest who rely on personal interpretation, we have a unified teaching and are one. :)

That is why one can never really debate a fellow Catholic lol

Catholic Belief is not quite what you are showing.
The Catholic Church has been very systematic in recording what the Doctors of the Church and other Great scholars have thought, on virtually every aspect of the Christian faith. This is codified, and can be consulted.
However there still are great minds amongst Catholic theologians who are adding to these concepts. They are in no way fixed. Note, that I said added to, as it it is almost unheard of, to totally refute previous doctrine.

The Main difference between the Catholics and others comes at the personal interpretation level. I, in a previous post made a statements that few Catholics would care to make, as it usurps the Authority of the Church. in as much that it can move Interpretation to a personal level.
 

rusra02

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
The Bible reveals there is but "one [true] faith, one baptism" (Ephesians 4:4,5) Jesus and his apostles warned of an apostasy from true Christianity, and today we have thousands of different sects, all claiming to be followers of Christ. True Christians can be identified by the good fruits or works they produce, and false Christians from their rotten fruitage. (Matthew 7:15-20) Jesus said he would tell such ones to "Get away from me, you workers of lawlessness" when he comes to execute God's judgments upon the wicked. (Matthew 7:21-23)
 

Terrywoodenpic

Oldest Heretic
The Bible reveals there is but "one [true] faith, one baptism" (Ephesians 4:4,5) Jesus and his apostles warned of an apostasy from true Christianity, and today we have thousands of different sects, all claiming to be followers of Christ. True Christians can be identified by the good fruits or works they produce, and false Christians from their rotten fruitage. (Matthew 7:15-20) Jesus said he would tell such ones to "Get away from me, you workers of lawlessness" when he comes to execute God's judgments upon the wicked. (Matthew 7:21-23)

Paul followed one faith, but established many Churches on his journey, they were independant and linked only in faith. These are recorded by his letters.

Jesus never even mentioned Christianity. His faith was in God alone. He never worshipped himself.

Jesus was indeed very conscious of peoples works, and seemed to place this as highly, in his teaching, as peoples faith in God. One is the indicator of the other.
 

rusra02

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Paul followed one faith, but established many Churches on his journey, they were independant and linked only in faith. These are recorded by his letters.

Jesus never even mentioned Christianity. His faith was in God alone. He never worshipped himself.

Jesus was indeed very conscious of peoples works, and seemed to place this as highly, in his teaching, as peoples faith in God. One is the indicator of the other.

It is true Jesus worshipped God, and never directed worship to himself.
It is not true that the early churches were independent. When the question of circumcision for gentiles arose, the apostle Paul referred the matter to the apostles and elders in the Jerusalem congregation. These men made a decision binding on all the congregations of God's people. Christ Jesus as head of the congregation directed the activity of each group, as Revelation 1-3 shows. The book of Acts shows the Christian congregation was a loving brotherhood directed by local elders as well as traveling elders dispatched by the apostles and older men in Jerusalem. (Ephesians 4:11-16) Peter spoke of the "entire association of your brothers in the world." (1 Peter 5:9)
 
I get a little leery of people who say "there is only one true denomination of Christians and it just happens to be the one that I belong to".
Why would you feel that way? I would expect everyone to do exactly that unless you pick a church for social, business, or convenience reasons. I would expect people to go with a church that teaches the truth. When you find a church with the truth I would expect you to join it not walk away from it. You describe yourself as "Follower of Yeshua" yet you would accept a church that changed His teachings? In Galatians 1:6-8: someone who changes the Gospel is called accursed. That is very strong language, but think Jesus is OK with that? That isn't how I read the verse, or the entire Bible.

I think you are offended because it implies you are not a follower of Yeshua. I am more concerned with offending Yeshua than you.
 
Why should it matter so much what other denominations say? We know what is the historical belief and we hold onto it.

But as another poster pointed out. There is a Universal Church which many are part of, despite heretical views

838 "The Church knows that she is joined in many ways to the baptized who are honored by the name of Christian, but do not profess the Catholic faith in its entirety or have not preserved unity or communion under the successor of Peter."322 Those "who believe in Christ and have been properly baptized are put in a certain, although imperfect, communion with the Catholic Church."323 With the Orthodox Churches, this communion is so profound "that it lacks little to attain the fullness that would permit a common celebration of the Lord's Eucharist."324
"Why should it matter so much what other denominations say? We know what is the historical belief and we hold onto it.

But as another poster pointed out. There is a Universal Church which many are part of, despite heretical views "

It matters a lot. If church "A" teaches one precept and church "B" teaches the exact opposite precept they can't both be the church Jesus started. One of those churches is not Jesus' church and therefor is not Christian. It may be a close imitation but it is still only an imitation. The function of the imitation churches is to attract people away from Jesus' church not to it. That sounds an awful lot like Satan's purpose. If you can accept those imitation churches as christian then Satan has done his job.
 

Terrywoodenpic

Oldest Heretic
It is true Jesus worshipped God, and never directed worship to himself.
It is not true that the early churches were independent. When the question of circumcision for gentiles arose, the apostle Paul referred the matter to the apostles and elders in the Jerusalem congregation. These men made a decision binding on all the congregations of God's people. Christ Jesus as head of the congregation directed the activity of each group, as Revelation 1-3 shows. The book of Acts shows the Christian congregation was a loving brotherhood directed by local elders as well as traveling elders dispatched by the apostles and older men in Jerusalem. (Ephesians 4:11-16) Peter spoke of the "entire association of your brothers in the world." (1 Peter 5:9)

Read the Didache.... which is instruction or apprenticeship for new converts to Christianity, certainly used up to the 300's. in it congregations were told how to elect their own leaders and bishops and Prophets and how to treat and judge passing priests and prophets.

The Christian structure in that early church was not as firm as you suppose.
Vespasian and Titus destroyed all Jewish resistance by 70AD and the Jewish-Christian church was likewise largely destroyed.
Christianity Both Jewish Christian and Pauline Christian was later reformed and spread through out the country, However after Hadrian's destruction. there seems to have been only the Pauline Church of any size or influence... which of course is the way it is today.

The Jewish Christianity has passed on little of its heritage.
 

javajo

Well-Known Member
I think there are core doctrines that most denominations agree upon. Some differences are in lesser doctrines, different styles of worship, different traditions, countries of origin and backgrounds. For instance, if you go to a church of a converted tribe in Africa, their worship service will be much different than some of the more formal denominations like Episcopal or Eastern Orthodox. Different music styles, instruments, clothes, etc. But the same Savior.

Personally, I believe many people are saved in spite of the teachings of their particular denomination. For example, many believe Catholics, which add the sacraments and the traditions of the RCC to belief in Christ for salvation are in some error. But my mother, when she was little, was told by the Nuns that if she believed in Jesus she would go to Heaven. I think there are many, perhaps even in those which some would call 'cults', who have trusted Christ for salvation and are saved even if they may be in error on some things. Only God knows. Having said that, I am more inclined to call someone my brother or sister in Christ if they affirm they believe that Christ is God Incarnate, conceived of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary, (who was not sinless), in the Blood Atonement, that he rose physically from the grave, and is coming again. If one trusts alone in Christ alone by faith alone, works following as a result, I believe they are freely and eternally saved to the uttermost forevermore. I may have left something out, but if people believe those main things, I can agree to disagree on the lesser things.
 

javajo

Well-Known Member
In 2 Cor. 11 paul warned of those preaching another gospel and warned them of being subtly deceived from the simplicity that is Christ. In Galatians 1 he warned of leaving the gospel of grace in Christ for another gospel which is not a gospel. We are sinners, the penalty is death, so Christ died and paid the penalty for us. He offers salvation as a completely free gift by grace, totally undeserved, unmerited, unearned favor, through faith in him, that he bought us. When we add anything more we do but trust in him, we are teaching another false gospel. When Christ cried, "It is finished!' when he died, that phrase was common in the Middle East as meaning something was paid in full. Christ paid the penalty for all our sins, past, present and future, all means all. He paid for our sins in our place and give us his righteousness in place of our own. He did it all, we only bring our sin. That is the true gospel.
 
I don't expect you to buy my tree example... like all metaphors it is imperfect.
However the various subsets of Christianity have all been based on Jesus teachings, and they have been coloured by other writers, from the old and new testaments.

Every one who reads the Bible interprets and filters it with their own Personality, understanding and prior education. This is unavoidable.

What little of Jesus message that has come down to us is certainly not unchanged. Each writer in the Bible has recorded different parts of the stories and messages and put their own slant on it. Even today the Bible is being rewritten in the light of new discovery and new scholarship pertaining to the lives and times of the Authors.

Jesus never wrote a Gospel, as far as is known, he never wrote anything.

His church is based on the memories of those who knew him and those that came after. His disciples seem to have left us very little indeed to work with. Those who were the closest to him, Like Mary Magdalene, who was also the first he showed himself to, risen from the grave, Have had her Gospel destroyed (with only fragments remaining) because the Church did not like what she was saying.

The Branch of the Church you follow is no more "true" than any other. It is based on the same limited material as all other branches. And is no more favoured by God than any other.


There is every reason to believe that God loves all mankind equally.
I can agree with you on many things but we differ on one important thing. There are no "various subsets of Christianity". There is Christianity, the Gospel that Jesus taught, then there is everything else. We agree that people filter what they read and that is why we have so many different churches, but that doesn't make them Christian.

The churches started by Paul were branches of the same church not independent, Paul kept tabs on them by sending people to check on them and he sent them letters of correction. The writers of the Bible didn't slant the Gospel. They were dealing with baptized members who had heard the Gospel. They reminded them of the parts they had changed or modified to get them on track. Those who believe we are saved by faith alone and works are of no value have started a church based upon Paul's letters to the Corinthians and paid not attention to James or Matthew.

Your statement: "His church is based on the memories of those who knew him and those that came after" leaves out a very point. Those writers had the Holy Ghost (The Spirit of Truth) to refresh their memories. I would say God helped them out a little. Then you say "The Branch of the Church you follow is no more "true" than any other. It is based on the same limited material as all other branches. And is no more favoured by God than any other.", is amazing unless you are not a Christian. I haven't said if I believe the true church is even on the Earth, but I do. I can research the Bible and look for the true church based upon what is written. I can:

Matt 7:7
7 ¶ Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:

God Knows His church even if you don't. And He does favor His church over all of the others, because all of the others belong to Satan.

Does God love everyone equally?
John 15:10
10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

John 14:21,23
21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will
keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
 

javajo

Well-Known Member
And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment. 1 John 3:23
 

JacobEzra.

Dr. Greenthumb
"Why should it matter so much what other denominations say? We know what is the historical belief and we hold onto it.

But as another poster pointed out. There is a Universal Church which many are part of, despite heretical views "

It matters a lot. If church "A" teaches one precept and church "B" teaches the exact opposite precept they can't both be the church Jesus started. One of those churches is not Jesus' church and therefor is not Christian. It may be a close imitation but it is still only an imitation. The function of the imitation churches is to attract people away from Jesus' church not to it. That sounds an awful lot like Satan's purpose. If you can accept those imitation churches as christian then Satan has done his job.
Well since you fail to understand my posts, including what I posted from Catechism, then I will just play your game.

Catholic Church can trace its roots all the way to Apostles. And hold on to the faith of the apostles.

Your the heretic then and the fake church.

Better?
 

JacobEzra.

Dr. Greenthumb
Catholic Belief is not quite what you are showing.
The Catholic Church has been very systematic in recording what the Doctors of the Church and other Great scholars have thought, on virtually every aspect of the Christian faith. This is codified, and can be consulted.
However there still are great minds amongst Catholic theologians who are adding to these concepts. They are in no way fixed. Note, that I said added to, as it it is almost unheard of, to totally refute previous doctrine.

Can you give examples so I may understand you better?
 

Terrywoodenpic

Oldest Heretic
Can you give examples so I may understand you better?

Do you suppose your theologians Just sit on their back sides and study what is in the Deposit.
I do not follow their published work so have no Idea what is new.
However I have no doubt that what they do publish is with the authority of the Church. And pertains to new insights or applies old insights to new discoveries.

Like all the old churches, the catholics are having problems in recruiting those with vocations. And with a falling membership in most of the old territories. Most of the other old churches are re-looking at the position of women priest and the use of the deaconate. These problems are closely involved with theology and in the case of Catholics with the Deposit of Faith. (This is another issue , and not part of the op.)

But The catholic Church has spawned quite as many "rogue" churches as the Anglicans, through the work of the more independently thinking theologians and Bishops. Excommunication simply creates a new Church.
 

Terrywoodenpic

Oldest Heretic
I can agree with you on many things but we differ on one important thing. There are no "various subsets of Christianity". There is Christianity, the Gospel that Jesus taught, then there is everything else. We agree that people filter what they read and that is why we have so many different churches, but that doesn't make them Christian.

The churches started by Paul were branches of the same church not independent, Paul kept tabs on them by sending people to check on them and he sent them letters of correction. The writers of the Bible didn't slant the Gospel. They were dealing with baptized members who had heard the Gospel. They reminded them of the parts they had changed or modified to get them on track. Those who believe we are saved by faith alone and works are of no value have started a church based upon Paul's letters to the Corinthians and paid not attention to James or Matthew.

Your statement: "His church is based on the memories of those who knew him and those that came after" leaves out a very point. Those writers had the Holy Ghost (The Spirit of Truth) to refresh their memories. I would say God helped them out a little. Then you say "The Branch of the Church you follow is no more "true" than any other. It is based on the same limited material as all other branches. And is no more favoured by God than any other.", is amazing unless you are not a Christian. I haven't said if I believe the true church is even on the Earth, but I do. I can research the Bible and look for the true church based upon what is written. I can:

Matt 7:7
7 ¶ Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:

God Knows His church even if you don't. And He does favor His church over all of the others, because all of the others belong to Satan.

Does God love everyone equally?
John 15:10
10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

John 14:21,23
21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will
keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

The "Church Universal" has many Paths to God.
we are not going to be tested on the details of a belief or the format of the services we attended. Or that we believe that the Bible is inerrant.
We shall be Judged " If that is what God does" In how closely Our lives have fulfilled the path laid down for us by Jesus in his teachings. and our love for God, his creation,and our fellow man.
God is not a reward for being good, or completing a task like a child earns sweeties.
We love God as he loves us. Reward or not.
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
I propose that there is only one true Christian Church and many conterfit christian churches. Jesus started one church.
I agree. So have you concluded that "the one true Christian Church" exists today or that it doesn't?
 
Last edited:
Well since you fail to understand my posts, including what I posted from Catechism, then I will just play your game.

Catholic Church can trace its roots all the way to Apostles. And hold on to the faith of the apostles.

Your the heretic then and the fake church.

Better?
Sorry but I don't recognize the Catholic Catechism as scripture. As far as tracing the Holy Roman Catholic Church back to Peter, all I can say is where are your Apostles today? It isn't the same church.
 
Top