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Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire

jeffrey

†ßig Dog†
JerryL said:
No one claimed it was real; it teaches moral lessons... morals which are contrary to Biblical teachings...
What negative moral issues does it teach? It is make believe. I do not believe there will be to many people attempting to ride a broom after watching the movie. My wife and kids are from Wales, where alot of the movie was filmed. He knows and has read all the Potter books. He also knows alot of the Bible. And he knows and understands the difference between the two.
 

jeffrey

†ßig Dog†
Harry Potter. Doesn't smoke, drink or curse his parents. Respects his teachers, even the 'evil' ones. Respects adults. Respects his friends. Respects women Doesn't hit them, slap them or attempt to bed them. Would put his own safely at risk to help someone. Heaven forbid a boy growing up like that now-a-days. :p
 

jeffrey

†ßig Dog†
JerryL said:
Independance, self-reliance, personal power, rebellion to authority.
Nothing wrong with independence or self-reliance. He uses only his power to help others, not for personal gain. And to the contrary with authority.
 

JerryL

Well-Known Member
Nothing wrong with independence or self-reliance.
The tower of Babel
He uses only his power to help others, not for personal gain.
Not a Biblically useful standard. Satan did not gain in the garden.
And to the contrary with authority.
So every time I've seen him sneak out after cerfew, or enter the forbidden forest, or enter the restricted section of the library, or use the invisability cloak to hide from faculty... those were all respectful and obedient of authority? I suppose there's no point bringing up that his attendance in total, is in direct opposition to his mother's brrother; who is his surrogate father.
 

JerryL

Well-Known Member
Harry Potter. Doesn't smoke, drink or curse his parents. Respects his teachers, even the 'evil' ones. Respects adults. Respects his friends. Respects women Doesn't hit them, slap them or attempt to bed them. Would put his own safely at risk to help someone. Heaven forbid a boy growing up like that now-a-days.
Where is "respect women" a Biblical moral? Paul's clear. It's better to be a virgin, but if you are lustful than you should marry. He's also clear that man is the head of women, that women should never be in a position of authority over men (notice the female teachers in leadership roles in Harry Potter?), and that they should have a mark of authority.

Heck, if the movies are to be believed, several of the women have shamed their heads with short hair. How is that respectful to God?
 

jeffrey

†ßig Dog†
JerryL said:
The tower of Babel
Not a Biblically useful standard. Satan did not gain in the garden.
So every time I've seen him sneak out after cerfew, or enter the forbidden forest, or enter the restricted section of the library, or use the invisability cloak to hide from faculty... those were ...
I'd much rather have my son act like him then most of the kids around him. Does he not get good grades? And what where the reasons he snuck out? just to goof off?
 

JerryL

Well-Known Member
jgallandt said:
I'd much rather have my son act like him then most of the kids around him. Does he not get good grades? And what where the reasons he snuck out? just to goof off?
So you are backing off from a "biblical morality" stance to "I like him" and "It's ok to break morals if you have good intentions"?

Interesting.
 

jeffrey

†ßig Dog†
It's obvious we interpret the Bible in different ways. But I got to ask. How is a woman shaving her head disrespectful to God?
 

jeffrey

†ßig Dog†
JerryL said:
So you are backing off from a "biblical morality" stance to "I like him" and "It's ok to break morals if you have good intentions"?

Interesting.
What is interesting is how you attempt to state things that I never said. And I think it's a little scary your total disrespect for women. And the way you interpret the Bible to suit your needs.
 

JerryL

Well-Known Member
jgallandt said:
It's obvious we interpret the Bible in different ways.
I'm happy to discuss that on an appropriate therad. I feel the Bible is very clear on most of these matters. Disrespect to authroity, particualrly parents (in this case, the uncle and aunt who are) is pushinsed by death.


But I got to ask. How is a woman shaving her head disrespectful to God?
1 Corinthians 11
Does not even nature itself teach you that if a man has long hair it is a disgrace to him, but that if a woman has long hair, it is her glory? For her hair is given to her as a covering. But if anyone wants to argue about this, we have no other custom, nor do the churches of God.

Based on Paul, since Christ is the head of man, a man's head is glorious; but since man is the head of woman, a woman's head is shameful. That's why they should keep their hair long and cover their head when praying.
What is interesting is how you attempt to state things that I never said.
So you were never in support of a Biblical morality? I appologize fro putting words in your mouth.
And I think it's a little scary your total disrespect for women.
On what do you base this accusation?
And the way you interpret the Bible to suit your needs.
I do no such thing. I'm working from a plain reading of the Bible. Perhaps you are interpreting it, and cherry-picking from it, and scared by the fact that I'm not.
 

Scuba Pete

Le plongeur avec attitude...
You gots to watch that thar independence. Is you is, or is you ain't independent? Them thar Apostles were a veritable hotbed of improper independence...

Acts 4:18 Then they called them in again and commanded them not to speak or teach at all in the name of Jesus. 19 But Peter and John replied, "Judge for yourselves whether it is right in God's sight to obey you rather than God. 20 For we cannot help speaking about what we have seen and heard." NIV

Harry Potter et al, always seem to disobey "man's tradition" for a greater good. There is no fault in that!

Jerry, I think it hilarious that you focus on Harry's sins against his legal gaurdians (not his parents) and not on their SINS:

Ephesians 6:1 Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right. 2 "Honor your father and mother"—which is the first commandment with a promise— 3 "that it may go well with you and that you may enjoy long life on the earth." 4Fathers, do not exasperate your children; instead, bring them up in the training and instruction of the Lord. NIV

Notice the absense of "DEATH" or any reference to it in this passage. Welcome to the new dispensation!
 

James the Persian

Dreptcredincios Crestin
I must confess that I intensely dislike the Harry Potter books and films. It has absolutely nothing to do with my faith, however, I just find them terribly dull. I can see no danger whatsoever in reading the books or watching the films. My son loves them and the only adverse effect it's had is personal to me - it means I have to sit through the flipping things and watch them with him. They certainly do not grow on me.

I must ask, do those here who have made negative comments on Harry Potter have the same attitude to the Lord of the Rings? What about the Narnia books? Both of those were written by devout Christians and have Christian themes running through them (heavily veiled at times, but there nonetheless), but they also contain magic, mythological creatures and many of the things found in Harry Potter. Are they also of the devil? I seem to recall, but maybe one of the Potter fans can correct me if I'm wrong, reading that J.K. Rowling is also a Christian of one sort or another. Why on earth would any Christian write something to be a tool of the devil? I'm afraid that I really do not understand such attitudes.

James
 

JerryL

Well-Known Member
You gots to watch that thar independence. Is you is, or is you ain't independent? Them thar Apostles were a veritable hotbed of improper independence...
You didn't offer an example of independace from God. The tower of Babel is a good example of acts independant of God and his reaction.

Harry Potter et al, always seem to disobey "man's tradition" for a greater good. There is no fault in that!
I've not attempted to point out him disobeying man, but disobeying God. What "greater good" can be served by disobedience to God?

Jerry, I think it hilarious that you focus on Harry's sins against his legal gaurdians (not his parents) and not on their SINS:
I don't think that they are used as role-models. Why would I comment on their sins when they are not held up as examples to follow?

Notice the absense of "DEATH" or any reference to it in this passage. Welcome to the new dispensation!
They are, for all intents, his parents.
 

Scuba Pete

Le plongeur avec attitude...
You do realise, that MANY or today's tele-preachers fit the OT concept of a "sorcerer" as opposed to JKRawling's inventions.

But again, many wish to focus on debunking a fantasy that everyone KNOWS is a fantasy, rather than concentrate on the BIGGER points of Christianity such as: "I desire mercy and not sacrifice".

jerryl said:
You didn't offer an example of independace from God.
Niether did Harry Potter! His independence is from stuffy adults who are full of legalism, like some of the adults posting on this thread.
 

JerryL

Well-Known Member
You do realise, that MANY or today's tele-preachers fit the OT concept of a "sorcerer" as opposed to JKRawling's inventions.
I'd believe it.

Niether did Harry Potter! His independence is from stuffy adults who are full of legalism, like some of the adults posting on this thread.
What Sunstone said he got from it (in defending it): "conflict in the Harry Potter books is good vs. evil. The books also show the power of such virtues as courage and loyality to overcome evil. Where's the harm in that?"

The power of courage to overcome evil. The power of loyalty to overcome evil. This is not Bbilical. Only God can overcome evil. Only faith in God can overcome evil. Courage will not get you into heaven.
 

Scuba Pete

Le plongeur avec attitude...
I don't recall heaven or hell being discussed in the Harry Potter books.

God has held up those who desired to do good, and condemned those who did not.
 

JerryL

Well-Known Member
I don't recall heaven or hell being discussed in the Harry Potter books.
It's not. What does that have to do with this conversation?

God has held up those who desired to do good, and condemned those who did not.
But the definition of "good" is what's in question. Tell me where God has held up those who took personal power apart from God.
 

lilithu

The Devil's Advocate
JamesThePersian said:
I must ask, do those here who have made negative comments on Harry Potter have the same attitude to the Lord of the Rings? What about the Narnia books? Both of those were written by devout Christians and have Christian themes running through them (heavily veiled at times, but there nonetheless),
Narnia was quite obviously Christian to me, even as a kid who was more interested in "magic" than religion - Aslan's voluntary self-sacrifice in order to save Edmund, his ressurection, his unseen Father across the ocean, the final battle... Rings is less obvious. What are the specifically Christian themes in Rings?


JamesThePersian said:
I seem to recall, but maybe one of the Potter fans can correct me if I'm wrong, reading that J.K. Rowling is also a Christian of one sort or another. Why on earth would any Christian write something to be a tool of the devil?
Because she's been TRICKED!!! by the Devil or one of his minions into writing something that she thought was wholesome entertainment that taught classic moral values but really serves to distract us from the one true story that matters...no one should be reading anything other than the bible, the holy word of God, all of the time...if they read or think of anything else, they will be deceived down the path into the firey pits of hell...yes, I am joking. :D
 
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