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Universal Truth

Buttons*

Glass half Panda'd
Is there such a thing? Bringing it back to philosophy a bit here. And yes, "taxes" is a cheeky and clever answer, but maybe something more meaty could get the ball rolling.

I suppose if you say "everything is relative," you're saying something, but are you saying that the aforementioned quotation is something universally true?

If there are universal truths, what are they? Are universal truths the kinds of things that can be quantified, evidenced? Are they ideas, abstract objects? And, following that, how do universal truths work?
 
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elmarna

Well-Known Member
A universal "truth" is just that.
A truth that no matter where on earth or the galaxy beyond is constant & does not change.
It is a unersversal truth that man must breath to sustain his life.
it is a universal truth (as we refer to it) that there is dark & light defineing the world we see.
 

Buttons*

Glass half Panda'd
1) It is a universal truth that man must breathe to sustain life

Question - If there is a man that does not need breath on some distant galaxy, is the "truth" rendered false, or does the definition of "man" need to change in order to make this a universal truth... or do we just want to say that "whatever that is, it is not a man, for it does not require breath"?

2) It is a universal truth (as we refer to it) that there is dark and light defining the world we see.

Question - what exactly do you mean by light and dark?
 
It's universal truth that pain hurts. If you're into pain , then it's not really pain, it's pleasure. Physical or psycological. Yes?
Pain is supposed to indicate that something is wrong and you need to try and make it stop.
 

elmarna

Well-Known Member
If a man does not breath on another planet I doubt we would define him as a man in a earth man sense. Just humanoid than earthling.
Light is just that . Dark is the absence of light.
 

Buttons*

Glass half Panda'd
It's universal truth that pain hurts. If you're into pain , then it's not really pain, it's pleasure. Physical or psycological. Yes?
Pain is supposed to indicate that something is wrong and you need to try and make it stop.

Well are we talking tautologies here? I'm not sure if that would be enough to sustain a good reason for universals... but I'll probably come back to this tomorrow.
 

Willamena

Just me
Premium Member
Is there such a thing? Bringing it back to philosophy a bit here. And yes, "taxes" is a cheeky and clever answer, but maybe something more meaty could get the ball rolling.

I suppose if you say "everything is relative," you're saying something, but are you saying that the aforementioned quotation is something universally true?

If there are universal truths, what are they? Are universal truths the kinds of things that can be quantified, evidenced? Are they ideas, abstract objects? And, following that, how do universal truths work?
One type of universal truth is axioms, things accepted as true without the need for justification. The primary one is that "existence exists," which if we cast doubt on it, we are always brought back to at least one thing that exists (in this case, "doubt").

"Everything is relative" is only relatively true. :) And it includes us (the observer) in the picture, which often gets overlooked. "Relative" is one way we have of organizing the data about the universe: it is our comparision of one thing with another, from the perspective of that thing. In the sense that we have the ability do this to anything in the universe, even "the absolute," then "everything is relative."
 
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Penumbra

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Is there such a thing? Bringing it back to philosophy a bit here. And yes, "taxes" is a cheeky and clever answer, but maybe something more meaty could get the ball rolling.

I suppose if you say "everything is relative," you're saying something, but are you saying that the aforementioned quotation is something universally true?

If there are universal truths, what are they? Are universal truths the kinds of things that can be quantified, evidenced? Are they ideas, abstract objects? And, following that, how do universal truths work?
I think logic implies that there must be a universal or absolute truth of some sort, even if what it is can't be known.

The statement "everything is relative" is a self-contradictory statement, because it is itself an absolute or universal claim. The statement "there is no universal or absolute truth" is self-contradictory, because again, it is absolute or universal.

So basically by subtraction, we should logically arrive at the conclusion that universal or absolute truths do exist. Even if one of them is as simple as "It isn't true that everything is relative."
 

Falvlun

Earthbending Lemur
Premium Member
1) It is a universal truth that man must breathe to sustain life

Question - If there is a man that does not need breath on some distant galaxy, is the "truth" rendered false, or does the definition of "man" need to change in order to make this a universal truth... or do we just want to say that "whatever that is, it is not a man, for it does not require breath"?

2) It is a universal truth (as we refer to it) that there is dark and light defining the world we see.

Question - what exactly do you mean by light and dark?
I believe there are universal truths. Unfortunately, our perspective tends to be limited, so it's hard to determine what they are.

I would think 2 + 2 = 4 would be a universal truth, and other things of a mathematical, and to a lesser extent, scientific nature.

As for your examples above, I think the problem stems from their wording (or because they actually aren't universal truths in the way they are presented.)

For example," homo sapiens require oxygen to survive" may be the better "universal truth" assertion. "Man", as you have pointed out, can be too subjective of a word. Homo sapiens, however, is a concrete, well-defined specific species. Also, I can also imagine some sort of technology that may eliminate the need for "breathing"... oxygen is the important part, not the particular mechanism we utilize to obtain it.
 

Kilgore Trout

Misanthropic Humanist
It seems the only universal truths are things that make you go "duh." I find general truths to be much more useful. And interesting.
 

Meow Mix

Chatte Féministe
There's a difference between universal truths and universal truths that we can know. There may exist a great many of the former (though we may never know it), but as Penumbra has pointed out, there are at least a few cases of the latter.

Some other universal truths that we can know are that we ourselves exist (cogito ergo sum) and that something, if it exists, exists as what it is and not as what it is not (logical self-identity). These don't get us very far, though.
 

Brok Born

New Member
A common example people tend to try and fit as "Universal Truth's" are their ethics. For example, I can't count the number of people I've heard say "you (in general) shouldn't kill any living things" yet the same people live in houses made of wood, rip flowers out of the ground for their loved ones, eat plants and sometimes kill bugs. Not to mention their act of living itself is killing numerous living cells etc. Life lives off life. Needless to say - it isn't a Universal Truth.

Thanks a lot
Brok Born
 
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