True Muslims: Sunni vs Shia

muslim- · Oct 25, 2011

ohhcuppycakee said:
Lol. Shi'a Muslims do not believe the Qur'an has been changed by anyone. I don't even know where people pull this misconception from. There must be some deviant group out there that believes or did believe that. I've never met any Shi'a Muslims who believed something so blasphemous.

If its so blasphemous, show me ONE condemning Al Noori Al Tubrusi for his book.

Also, if you dont know about this belief, please see the Shia scholars and Ayatullas yourself, in the second part of this video (the first part is a Sunni speaking, so its not relevant).

[youtube]OvRuzP4jM0c[/youtube]
What Shia's say about the Quran - YouTube

Did any Shia ever accuse them of blasphemy? Nope, rather in this video are some prominant Shia scholars saying this. You will never find any straight Shia answer to this. Because if they do accuse the scholars of blasphemy, then theres no Shiasm left since they are so many and so prominent.

ohhcuppycakee · Oct 25, 2011

muslim- said:
If its so blasphemous, show me ONE condemning Al Noori Al Tubrusi for his book.

Also, if you dont know about this belief, please see the Shia scholars and Ayatullas yourself, in the second part of this video (the first part is a Sunni speaking, so its not relevant).

[youtube]OvRuzP4jM0c[/youtube]
What Shia's say about the Quran - YouTube

Did any Shia ever accuse them of blasphemy? Nope, rather in this video are some prominant Shia scholars saying this. You will never find any straight Shia answer to this. Because if they do accuse the scholars of blasphemy, then theres no Shiasm left since they are so many and so prominent.

I attend both Sunni and Shi'a masjid and never once have they stated "Qur'an has been changed" in the Shi'a masjid. Instead, they always said Qur'an is word of Almighty Allah (SWT). If a scholar believes something, that doesn't mean you have to believe it too. There are certain beliefs that I personally will never accept from both Sunni or Shi'a Islam.

ohhcuppycakee · Oct 25, 2011

muslim- said:
First of all, pure doesnt mean 12 infallibles with one disappearing in the cave with others collecting Khums on his behalf. Secondly, Muslim rulers doesnt mean Imams in Shia sense, nor does it say anything about infallibility.

Since believing that Imamate of the 12 is a pillar of Iman in Shiasm, using such hadeeths and verses that dont say it explicitly, tells you it was made up. If it were so important like an article of faith, it would have been mentioned at least the same number of times prayer, zakat, Hajj, and so on were.

And on top of this the Shia Imams like Ja'far Al Sadiq werent even Shias themselves. This is why theres loads of fabrications against him, especially that the sciences of hadeeth authentication in Shiasm developed centuries later, and basically copying the Sunni scholars of Mustalah Al Hadeeth.

On top of all this, Ali himself was among those who supported the Caliphs Abu Bakr, Umar, and Uthman. So what they attribute to him, is also, not true. Same thing with Al Hasan Ibn Ali.

The household of the prophet peace be upon him have nothing to do with Shias. They just use their name to gain followers.

According to many Shia scholars, it was Shias ironically, that asked for Al Hussain to go to them and when he did, with nearly 70 from his family and children etc, they killed him like they killed his cousin Muslim Ibn Aqeel. Then they formed Jaysh Al Tawabeen ( the army of repenters) repenting from it, as the killers of Al Hussain were :

1- Ubaidullah Bin Ziyad, he was in Alis army in Siffeen battle, so he was a Shia.
His father also was made ruler of Al Basrah, by Ali raa.

2- Shamr Bin Dhi Al Jawshan, also in Alis army in Siffeen.

They are both in Shia source "Rijaal Al Shia" (Shia men).

3- Sinan Ibn Anas Al Nakh'i, his father was also a Shia in Alis army in Siffeen.

Many Shia scholars like Murtadha Al Mutahhiri and others confirm this. Even today theres plenty of Shia scholars on youtube saying the same.

Finally, sometimes Shias quote "Sunni books" in a deceptive way inline with their Taqiyyah methods. For instance, Al Tabari collected everything said with chains of narrators and said it is up to the reader to research authenticity. Nearly all the narrations with Shia ideas in them, have "Abi Mikhnaf" and/or a few others in the chain, who was a known liar, and a Shia whos narrations were never accepted.

As for Hasan NasrAllah, what he says for PR purposes is irrelevant, and only a practice of Taqiyyah. Top Shia scholars in history have cursing and insults all over their books. If they condemn those scholars, then there would be no Shiasm left, as they are the top figures.

If he were truthful, he would reject building a mosque over the grave of Abu Lu'luah Al Majoosi (non Muslim killer of Umar raa) in Iran, with curses written at the entrance. Not just curses, but famous "authentic" ones like the dua of Al Jibt and Al Taghoot. It is also a practice at any Hussainiyyah gathering you go to. Their Taqiyyah for PR purposes says nothing about their beliefs and doctorine that have existed in their books for centuries.

Back to hadeeths, the problem with Shia Taqiyya methods, is that what they say works with those with no knowledge of hadeeth. They dont have an authentic book of hadeeth like Bukhari and Muslim. Can you name even one? Theres none. So, their scholars just pick and choose from them whatever they find convenient at any given time. So in other words, they eliminate all references, making the references limited to "men" that have a hiarchy leading up to the "deputy" of the hidden 12th Imam, giving them the religious authority basically.

This is precisly why Shiasm changed developed over many centuries. Their "scholars" would preach whatever fits the time.

This was the same problem the Sunni debator in the video above faced. They dont have any criteria for authentication, so compound that with Taqiyyah, discussing things with them becomes impossible. Please see this video again and observe.

I am glad that you say calling anyone other than Allah, is wrong. As this is precisely what Shirk is. However, Shia scholars say otherwise. The following, is a teacher at the top Shia religious institute in Iran, the Hawza of Qum, Iran. So its not just anyone. Ali Al Koorani is well known.

Never will you find any Shia condemning him or anyone like him, although this is related to the most basic belief of Islam, monotheism. Its not just an issue of how to wash before prayer etc.

Also, please see this. The following is a famous religious "singer" in Iran, and close to the "deputy" of Al Mahdi, Khamen'i, and his recordings are everywhere. Does anyone condemn him? No. Why? because usually they just fill people with emotions, just enough to block any logic or common sense. No one would even dare to talk like that in any Sunni community.

Also, anyone who knows Shia communities well, especially in their original countries, knows and sees such things all the time. Even when waking up and stretching they would say "Ya Ali", so its not really an Isma'eeli thing at all.

Shi'a ahadith is a bit different from Sunni ahadith in that Shi'a never just forever erased the weakest or even fabricated ahadith. So each hadith has to be thoroughly scrutinized and the narrators checked, etc. The only group that takes all these ahadith as correct or whatever is the Akhbaris.

Waking up and stretching, saying "Ya Ali"...? Okay, I have never heard of this one, but I certainly don't doubt that it is true. Mainly what I see is that in many songs people will say "Ya Ali" or "Ya Hussayn", but I also see in many Sunni songs that they say stuff like "Ya Rasoul Allah."

Oh God, I don't even feel like debating anymore. Organized religion has become so messed up in general. It seems for the most part it is only causing hate in this world.

abdul lateef · Oct 25, 2011

Read this brief article. It is very short and very respectfully written, and it covers the fundamental beliefs of a muslim directly from the Quran without using hadeeths.

This is because shiahs and sunnis dont agree on what hadeeths are authentic. I found it to be a very quick and brief explanation yet extremely clear one, "distinguishing" what the Quran teaches, and what the shiah religion teaches.

Everyone can argue about what this person says and that person says. But the religion comes from the texts. and if the texts are contradictory to the fundamental beliefs in the Quran, then clearly they are weak and should not be relied upon to base religious actions on.

Please spread this to all sunnis and shiahs that you know. I trust that they will find it very informative.

Islam and Shiaism

muslim- · Oct 26, 2011

ohhcuppycakee said:
Shi'a ahadith is a bit different from Sunni ahadith in that Shi'a never just forever erased the weakest or even fabricated ahadith. So each hadith has to be thoroughly scrutinized and the narrators checked, etc. The only group that takes all these ahadith as correct or whatever is the Akhbaris.

Waking up and stretching, saying "Ya Ali"...? Okay, I have never heard of this one, but I certainly don't doubt that it is true. Mainly what I see is that in many songs people will say "Ya Ali" or "Ya Hussayn", but I also see in many Sunni songs that they say stuff like "Ya Rasoul Allah."

Oh God, I don't even feel like debating anymore. Organized religion has become so messed up in general. It seems for the most part it is only causing hate in this world.

Only Sufis do that. Anyone who says things like that arent Sunni for sure. Cursing religious figures of others for centuries certainly does cause hatred, because it is based on hatred.

Anyhow I really do appreciate the clarity and politeness in your replies, although the nature of the topic didnt allow me to express this.

Hopefully soon the English version of Wesaal TV will be launched along with an Indonesian and Farsi one, offering authentic information. I just hope they turn out to be as good as the Arabic one, which alone was much more successful than 50+ Iranian TV channels in various languages.

gnostic · Oct 27, 2011

straw dog said:
Sunni and Shia? Who are the True Muslims?

What about the Sufi? Everyone always seems to overlook them. I don't know if they're anymore "true" than the others, but they tend to be my favorite tradition. Probably because I can relate to them a little more.

I know even less about the Sufi.

How are the Sufi differs from either Shia or Sunni (or both)?

Do the Shia or Sunni view the Sufi as not "true Muslims"?

Are the Sufi "persecuted" by the other two?

jamaesi · Oct 27, 2011

gnostic said:
I know even less about the Sufi.

How are the Sufi differs from either Shia or Sunni (or both)?

Do the Shia or Sunni view the Sufi as not "true Muslims"?

Are the Sufi "persecuted" by the other two?

Sufism is the esoteric inner path of Islam; we are the heirs of a very ancient and beautiful mystical tradition. You can be Sunni or Shi'a or any other sect of Islam and be Sufi, but Shi'a Islam seems to be more open to Sufism. Some groups try to split Sufism from Islam and personally I feel they have missed the point of Sufism and I find it deeply disrespectful. We have been both beloved and slaughtered or just ignored by the rest of Islam, depending at the people and time in play.

If you want to see the reaction to Sufism in action, I'm game. There's some squabbling in this thread about who believes what about the in infallibility of the Qur'an. Hi, I'm Mae, I'm Sufi, and I know for a fact the Qur'an has been changed. I mean, goodness, look at how it was complied! Also it is based (or you could say plagiarized, haha) on the Torah, the New Testament, and a lot of apocryphal and Gnostic texts... and who knows what else, really. This doesn't shake my faith in the least. I'm actually very confused at why historical fact is being denied about this.

And as a note, it bothers me when people praise Sufism while trying to divorce it from Islam. We're not peaceful hippies in a new age "spiritual not religious" drum circle that's palatable to white westerners. We have a history of being fantastic warriors and being on the forefront of defending our religion and that is still in the blood of our faith. We've been the glue that holds together oppressed Muslim groups and the victors in overcoming our oppressors. We're fierce, we're political, we circle the wagons around the roots of our faith and do not dilute it for anyone; but we still are open-minded, tolerant, and open to learning and knowledge and science and all the things the modern age has discovered.

Bismillah · Oct 27, 2011

]
Just trying to determine why they fight each other. I don't understand why they fight.

Was it not a question of succession of leadership after Muhammad's death?

If true, shouldn't it be settled over a thousand years ago? Why are there still hostility between the two? Why do they still hold grudges?

Because it has been a political issue for more than a thousand years. We see that today in the political maneuvering between KSA and Iran. That was the entire reason why Iraq went to war in the first place as well. Or the century long conflict between the "Sunni" Ottmans and "Shia" Saffavids. It has been and will continue to be a political conflict for the foreseeable future.

You said it could be ethnic-based - Shia and Sunni. But starsoul described Sunni and Shia as 2 different schools of thought

There are four schools of thought within Sunni theology (hanafi maliki shafi hanbali) and there is a movement to incorporate the main Shia school of thought as well (Ja'fari) though there are other sects within Shia Islam.

A-ManESL · Oct 27, 2011

gnostic said:
I know even less about the Sufi.

How are the Sufi differs from either Shia or Sunni (or both)?

Do the Shia or Sunni view the Sufi as not "true Muslims"?

Are the Sufi "persecuted" by the other two?

The Shia tradition and the Sunni folds are two basic divisions, but there are a myriad of ideas existing within them which combine together in many ways. Like a Sunni Muslim can take his fiqh or jurisprudence from a particular school of thought, take his theology from another school of thought, his spiritual practices (if any) from a particular Sufi school of thought (or Sufi order). For example, one might be a Sunni, with fiqh from the Hanfi school, theology from Ibn Taymiyaa, spiritual practices from the Chishti order. Another Muslim may take his jurisprudence from the same school as the previous Muslim but his spiritual practices from another school. In this way, there are many combinations, some more probable then others.

Shia Islam · Oct 27, 2011

firstly I need to state that Shiites and Sunnis are all members of the Muslim family.
And as i stated before in this forum, people who struggle to divide Muslims are generally not Muslims, but belongs to the Nasibi sect that is rejected by all Muslims, although these Nasibies don't call themselves Nasibies.

for example (muslim-) is most probably a Nasibi. Also note that he describes himself as a Salafi, and may be a Wahabi. And i wish that he shares with us his view about Osama bi Ladin and Mulla Ommar.

As for discords and violence, it's important to note that the Muslim countries have many political problems, and the politicians there have always used to exploit the differences between the Islamic schools of thoughts, for serving their narrow political interests.

muslim- · Oct 27, 2011

Shia Islam said:
firstly I need to state that Shiites and Sunnis are all members of the Muslim family.
And as i stated before in this forum, people who struggle to divide Muslims are generally not Muslims, but belongs to the Nasibi sect that is rejected by all Muslims, although these Nasibies don't call themselves Nasibies.

for example (muslim-) is most probably a Nasibi. Also note that he describes himself as a Salafi, and may be a Wahabi. And i wish that he shares with us his view about Osama bi Ladin and Mulla Ommar.

As for discords and violence, it's important to note that the Muslim countries have many political problems, and the politicians there have always used to exploit the differences between the Islamic schools of thoughts, for serving their narrow political interests.

See? That method is just low. Instead of addressing thoughts, you attack someone personally without even knowing him, and spread flat out lies/doubts. The Sunni scholars have denounced Bin Ladin and extremists like him before terrorism even became known around the world, yet they, and other terrorists like Hizbullah, and the criminal regime of Al Assad in Syria, are all supported by the "deputy" of the "hidden Imam".

As for Nasibi, you cant even give a definition for the word "Nasibi", because in reality, anyone who opposes Shias is called a Nasibi by them.

This method/mentality, is the same mentality of Iran in dealing with those who criticize it. Even Shias who dont submit to the system of Wilayat Al Faqih there, are slandered, such as the Shia Marji Al Hussaini from Lebanon, when he said "no" to Iran, it was only a matter of a few weeks/months and he was accused for spying for Israel.

Nearly every single person who debated Shias on TV was slandered in so many different ways, and accused of all sorts of things including homosexuality. Instead of addressing thoughts confidently, they attack, attack, and attack, until the thoughts are scattered. Thats why I said they have always, throughout history, thrived ONLY whenever theres turmoil.

This is not new, as they slandered the closest of the prophets companions and his wife even, and til this day this method continues.

This "habit" isnt out of nowhere, as they narrate falsely from Imam Al Sajjad

If you see people of suspicion and innovation other than shias or new shia then show disownment from them and abuse them much, backbite them, make false accusations on them that is, backbite them by attributing lies on them and make false accusations on them ('Buhtaan') [tanbiah al-khawatir v.2 p.162 wasael al-shia v.11 p. 508 Nahj al-intisaar p.152]

They also falsely narrate

The Messenger of Allah (SAWAS) has said, When you after me find people of bidah (innovation) and doubt/suspicion, do baraa- (disassociation) from them and increase your insults (sabihim), and exposing them, cause disagreements (among them), and make up lies against them (baahitoohum) so they may not become greedy to bring fasaad (corruption) to Islam. You must warn people against them and against learning their bidah (innovations). Allah will reward you for this and will raise you darajaat (positions) in the next life.

Source:

Al-Kulaynee, Al-Kaafee, vol. 2, ch. 159 "Sitting/Associating with Sinful People", pg. 375, hadeeth # 4

Grading: Majlisi has graded this hadeeth SaHeeH/authentic/sound .. Mir'aat Al-'Uqool, vol. 11, pg. 77

Al Majlisi isnt just any authority to Shias. Hes one of the top figures in Shia history. He says so many other things that would make anyone frown, but if they denounce him and his writings, including on the Qur'aan itself, much of Shiasm is then no longer.

So this method of slander, backbiting, since the time of the companions and the prophets wife, until today, is a habit among many of them. It was done at the time of Salah Al Deen himself towards the end of the Ubaidi state, falsely known as Fatimid, in Iran today, and even in Syria where peaceful protestors are called "terrorists".

This is the type of people Iran, Hizbullah, and their mafias support.

[youtube]aT0Fzx8LiGQ[/youtube]
Syrian soldiers force man to say "No god but Bashar Al Assad, no god but Maher Al-Assad" - YouTube

Its basically a mafia, that collects khums money, and uses religion for control of the masses.

Shia Islam · Oct 28, 2011

muslim- said:
.

Iran ...Iran ..Syria...Hizbollah..
I don't reply to political posts...

I am here not to defend Iran or any other political system...Although your extreme hatred toward Iran is questionable!!!

There is almost no other Islamic school of thought that has embraced philosophy as Shiasm did. This show that shiiasm is based on solid ground.

With respect to all Sunni bothers and sisters, sunnism and especially Salafism and wahabism -not all of them are sunnis- is the religion of following and exalting the Kings.

Practically, Sunnis consider the first three Kings who took power after the Martyrdom of prophet Muhammed SAAW, who are Abu Bakr, Ommar and Otham, as infallible. The same is almost true for the Ummayad and Abbasis tyrants.

Indeed, in sunni Islam obeying a tyrannical ruler is obligatory.

As the great late Egyptian writer Taha Hussain has said, shiites have always been opposition within the Islamic states. That's why shiasm spread by reason, and sunnism spread by sword, since sunnism is the religion of the state.

It's important to note that Iran was a sunni country, and has only converted to shiasm during the last five centuries.

As with narrations, unlike with sunnism, there is no one authentic narrations book in Shia islam. In shia Islam, a narration is not considered authentic by signature of Al Majlisi.

Landerage · Oct 29, 2011

@muslim,
Dude you cant simply judge an entire portion of muslims, and accuse them of spreading corruption and say the things you said. You can say "some shias" did this and that. Do i need to remind you that prophet Muhammed asked us not to judge on a person unless we can cut his abdomen and see whats in his heart?
You cant judge a person, by seeing which leader he folows. Can I judge all the syrian people by looking at their tyrant goverment?
So i wish for you not to judge a whole Muslim entity, but to more aim towards certain people who are responsible of corruption.

muslim- · Oct 30, 2011

Landerage said:
@muslim,
Dude you cant simply judge an entire portion of muslims, and accuse them of spreading corruption and say the things you said. You can say "some shias" did this and that. Do i need to remind you that prophet Muhammed asked us not to judge on a person unless we can cut his abdomen and see whats in his heart?
You cant judge a person, by seeing which leader he folows. Can I judge all the syrian people by looking at their tyrant goverment?
So i wish for you not to judge a whole Muslim entity, but to more aim towards certain people who are responsible of corruption.

My posts are about Shia thought and its development over the years. Not persons. When it was hinted that who is against Shiasm is a terrorist or terrorist sympathizer, I connected this statement to Shia thought and quotes from Shia scholars. Nowhere am I discussing individuals, as I don't believe in "mass judgements" at all.

I remember an Iranian Shia at our mosque praying with us after an invitation from an Iranian Sunni who told him it was "ok" and that we don't bite lol. After he got to know us well (no one ever brought up anything about his faith) he asked me if Sunnis hate Ali! This is what he was taught in Tehran. I said no and showed him what we believe. He then asked about Mutah (temporary marriages) I said we don't believe in them either. The next day he said he told his wife who replied in weak English "Sunnah better!" lol.

He finally went to Iran for vacation, and asked an Imam about points we brought up. He wasn't convinced and said that he told him "ok, say I accept Ali as an infallible Imam, but what about the 12 after him?!"

He is now considers me one of his closest friends. So I'm not talking about judging any individuals (I only do so when discussing public figures because then its public and not personal), I'm discussing thought in general. This doesn't mean every single person adhering to this line of thought accepts every detail in it. Theres always strict followers and lenient ones and ones that the strict would consider deviant, its natural that individuals are different. So judging individuals is pretty irrelevant to the discussion.

Shia Islam · Oct 31, 2011

muslim- said:
I remember an Iranian Shia at our mosque praying with us after an invitation from an Iranian Sunni who told him it was "ok" and that we don't bite lol. After he got to know us well (no one ever brought up anything about his faith) he asked me if Sunnis hate Ali! This is what he was taught in Tehran. I said no and showed him what we believe. He then asked about Mutah (temporary marriages) I said we don't believe in them either. The next day he said he told his wife who replied in weak English "Sunnah better!" lol.
.

Anybody else think that this is a made up story?

As for bringing up Mutah (temporary marriages) , Sunnis believe that it was permissible during the time of the prophet SAAW and Abu Bakr, and part of the reign of Ommar, who issued an order making it Haram ( not permissible).

All in All, it's clear that you @muslim- don't seek scientific discourse, but rather you are here to reflect your aniti-Shia (And anti- Suffi, anti-moderate-Sunni..) sentiment.

jamaesi · Oct 31, 2011

Shia Islam said:
Anybody else think that this is a made up story?
As for bringing up Mutah (temporary marriages) , Sunnis believe that it was permissible during the time of the prophet SAAW and Abu Bakr, and part of the reign of Ommar, who issued an order making it Haram ( not permissible).

All in All, it's clear that you @muslim- don't seek scientific discourse, but rather you are here to reflect your aniti-Shia (And anti- Suffi, anti-moderate-Sunni..) sentiment.

I have my doubts about the story as well... especially as the Shi'a friend seemed to kowtow to Sunni beliefs. I wonder how the friendship would have gone if said friend stood firm to his Shi'a beliefs.

muslim- · Nov 1, 2011

Shia Islam said:
Anybody else think that this is a made up story?
As for bringing up Mutah (temporary marriages) , Sunnis believe that it was permissible during the time of the prophet SAAW and Abu Bakr, and part of the reign of Ommar, who issued an order making it Haram ( not permissible).

All in All, it's clear that you @muslim- don't seek scientific discourse, but rather you are here to reflect your aniti-Shia (And anti- Suffi, anti-moderate-Sunni..) sentiment.

I think accusing others personally while leaving the issue discussed is what is far from "scientific discussion". Almost all of your posts discuss me as a person - and not my words- as a response to ideas I bring forward, including this last one.

It is ironic to me that in Shia thought it is common to falsely accuse and cast doubts on anyone who doesn't accept their ideas, starting from the companions, the prophets wife peace be upon them, and even Salah Al Deen Al Ayoobi.

Yet on the other hand, things that are not viewed with skepticism are weak/fabricated narrations, and "scholars" collecting %20 of their income, and claiming to receive the share of Al Mahdi on his behalf, who -although wasn't even born- supposedly entered a cave more than 1000 years ago, and will continue to collect this money on his behalf until he returns! All this while theres not a single verse that proves something so central and important in the religion like the imamate and infallibles, while even Wudu (how to wash before prayer) is mentioned very clearly.

The same skepticism doesn't include top scholars at the Hawza of Qum, Iran, telling people that the Mahdi is the secret behind the Bermuda triangle and speaks with a local accent spoken in Arizona.

[youtube]c6HBmH_wyI4[/youtube]
Funny Shia sheikh on Mahdi & the Bermuda Triangle, and Mahdis knowledge of accents! - YouTube

Nor is there skepticism when a "sheikh" says Jesus would be honored to be a slave of Ali, s omething that could never be said in public in any Muslim community, except where such ideas are common like Iran. (This one has no English translation)

[youtube]jD1Du1TYsec[/youtube]
‫

And to keep the money coming the powers of the Imams continue to increase, and this Ayatullah says that Imams have total control of the universe, and it is enough for them to say Be! and it is. (A description in the Quran said about God alone), where were these powers from Al Hasan and Al Hussain and Ali? Where were they when Fatimas rib was broken as they falsely claim? Allowing Umar raa to marry Alis raa daughter?

[youtube]n-PD_qXEAUk[/youtube]
12th imam has powers just like allah says shia priest 12th imamsays BE and it is - YouTube

Also, there is no skepticism when their scholars support a criminal regime like the one in Syria whose soldiers force people to say "No God but Bashar"

So this double standard in directing skepticism and doubts, I find to be ironic.

Many Shia laymen have realized this and have serious doubts and are leaving Shiasm to become secularists, seeing religion as "mythology", or becoming Sunnis or Zoroastrians or whatever.

When the grand Ayathullah (not just Ayatullah) Al Burqui left Shiasm for Sunni Islam he was shot, when he survived he lived the rest of his life in prison. However, this didn't deter many from leaving superstitions and "men" who call themselves sheikhs, using religion for political power, and collecting Khums money. Here is a confession about this from an Iranian "scholar" .

[youtube]jjeLFpXKFa0[/youtube]
Confession of Ayadollar Daneshmand - Iranians leaving Shia - YouTube

Sadly, theres only a few videos with English translations, allowing some to show different beliefs, depending on the background of who they are talking to. So yeah, I am clearly against the beliefs of Shiasm (not Shia individuals), and hope that they do continue to wake up, and I don't think superstitions like these (many more extreme ones in Arabic and Farsi) can last for so long, and that within the next 50 years, we will see a new form of Shiasm and new beliefs develop, especially after the fall of the Wilayat AL Faqih system in Iran, as it has continued to develop and change drastically over the many centuries, to be able to adapt and guarantee marketability which in the end would support money and political power going a certain direction. History repeats itself.

This is my opinion. You can continue to attack me personally for having it all you want although on a personal level, I do wish the best of guidence for you, and all sincere Shias (especially the isolated ones in Iran) and all sincere human beings.

May Allah show us truth as truth and guide us to follow it, and falsehood as falsehood and guide us to avoiding it.

jamaesi · Nov 2, 2011

muslim- said:
It is ironic to me that in Shia thought it is common to falsely accuse and cast doubts on anyone who doesn't accept their ideas, starting from the companions, the prophets wife peace be upon them, and even Salah Al Deen Al Ayoobi.

I'm Sunni, and know very little about Shi'a Islam, and have also apparently "falsely accused and casted doubt" on you and story. Go figure.

And I doubt you have Shi'a friends even more as you have continued to slander Shi'a Islam/Muslims.

Iti oj · Nov 2, 2011

gnostic said:
Are the centuries of hostilities and conflicts between the Sunni and Shia about who are the "true Muslims"?

Your thoughts, thank you.

howa bout the suffi?

ohhcuppycakee · Nov 2, 2011

Iti oj said:
howa bout the suffi?

Sufi can be Sunni or Shi'a.

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